Retiremant extentions for myself and wife?

[suave]

I have searched the forum for answers and it is not an easy job trying to find stuff on here ....    

 

HI, doing this for a friend.  He is thinking of retiring here with his wife, how would it work for the two of them?  Would it be best for one to get it first and then the other or both together?  How much cash will they need in the bank, is it twice the B800,000 in sperate accounts - that seems excessive to me, two can live quite a bit cheaper than one, especially with the wife around.  Any help appreciated!

[glegolo]

Help will come shortly.. But buy both of you a non immigrant "O" single entry back home before leaving, during the last 30 days here in Thailand the husband with the best financies, apply for extension of stay based on retirement and then his wife apply as being his dependent, and she do NOT have to prove any income at all..

 

Good luck

glegolo

Edited September 14, 2018 by glegolo

[ubonjoe]

Only one of them has to apply for a extension of stay based upon retirement and show the 800k baht in a Thai bank in their name only or 65k baht income or a combination of the 2 totaling 800k baht.

 The other one can then get an extension based upon being the spouse of the one with the extension based upon retirement.

[elviajero]

I think it’s best if they have separate extensions of stay if they can both meet the financial requirements. One could use income and the other 800K in the bank if they don’t want to tie up 1,600K.

 

However, either the husband or wife can get an extension of stay and the other can ‘piggyback’ that extension as their spouse.

[suave]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Only one of them has to apply for a extension of stay based upon retirement and show the 800k baht in a Thai bank in their name only or 65k baht income or a combination of the 2 totaling 800k baht.

 The other one can then get an extension based upon being the spouse of the one with the extension based upon retirement.

Thanks Ubon!  So He would get the extension and have her as a dependent, but they both need the  Non O?

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, suave said:

Thanks Ubon!  So He would get the extension and have her as a dependent, but they both need the  Non O?

A non-o visa entry is required to apply for both extensions.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, suave said:

Thanks Ubon!  So He would get the extension and have her as a dependent, but they both need the  Non O?

The wife doesn't apply as a dependent, but as his spouse.

[glegolo]

In this respect may I ask... I have always thought that it is called dependent.... Now you are correcting me calling it apply based on being a spouse.....

 

What difference is there between these or is there only one correct word for it...??

 

Thanks

glegolo

[elviajero]

20 minutes ago, glegolo said:

In this respect may I ask... I have always thought that it is called dependent.... Now you are correcting me calling it apply based on being a spouse.....

 

What difference is there between these or is there only one correct word for it...??

 

Thanks

glegolo

The extension is issued to a family member of another foreigner that has been given permission to stay. It is issued solely based on relationship. In the case being discussed the wife would qualify as the applicants wife.

 

From the Police Orders:

2.20 In the case of being a family member of an alien permitted a temporary stay in the Kingdom under Criteria 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.5, 2.6,

2.7, 2.10, 2.12, 2.13, 2.14, 2.15, 2.16, 2.17, 2.21, 2.22, 2.26, or 2.29 hereof or Section 34(1) (2) and (7) including family of alien granted non- immigration visa which contains “A” letter at the end of visa code, (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted children, or spouse’s children) except for Non- Immigrant code L-A:

 

Dependent usually implies financial support. Whether or not the family member is financially supported is irrelevant.

 

dependant

a person who relies on another, especially a family member, for financial support.

Edited September 14, 2018 by elviajero

[glegolo]

Thank you so much to learing that up to me...

 

glegolo

[gk10002000]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

I think it’s best if they have separate extensions of stay if they can both meet the financial requirements. One could use income and the other 800K in the bank if they don’t want to tie up 1,600K.

 

However, either the husband or wife can get an extension of stay and the other can ‘piggyback’ that extension as their spouse.

 I kind of like the idea of both people processing their statuses separately.  I can not assign any probabilities or define all the possible issues, but it seems like having the people do it individually provides more flexibility in case one of the people has some issue with their extension or visa in the future.  A problem with the provider may daisy chain down to the spouse/dependent?  Just thinking of redundancy. 

[el jefe]

Is there a link to the form where a spouse can apply based on that? I'd like to do this on my own without a visa agent in Chiang Mai, where everything seems to be more difficult.

 

Is there any problem with the following timing:

My wife currently has an Extension of Stay Based on Retirement that expires on Dec 15, 2018. She is currently in Thailand.

I am currently in the US and planning to enter Thailand on Oct 5, 2018. If I get a single entry Non-Imm-O visa at the Thai Consulate in NY now, can I get the 1 year extension of my visa based on being the spouse either before or after she extends hers for another year? If I do mine first will it expire on Dec 15, 2018? In that case I should definitely wait until she extends hers.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[elviajero]

You should wait until your wife has renewed her extension otherwise you will only get an extension until December 15th.

 

You should be able to apply together on the same day. Once your wife has a new extension they can issue your extension.

[moe666]

Related info someone I knew got a\her daughter a extension of stay for education and the mom piggy backed on her 6 year old daughters extension of stay for education

[Phuket Man]

6 hours ago, moe666 said:

Related info someone I knew got a\her daughter a extension of stay for education and the mom piggy backed on her 6 year old daughters extension of stay for education

Yes but she would have needed 500,000 Baht in the bank.

[ubonjoe]

7 hours ago, el jefe said:

Is there a link to the form where a spouse can apply based on that?

There is only one application form for all extension of stay and it is a TM7 form.

The biggest requirement is you having your marriage certificate to apply for the extension. Unless it has already been legalized in the state where it was issued and then by the department of state you will need to do a self certification of it at the US consulate in Chiang Mai by doing an affidavit. See: https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/authentication-vital-records/

 

7 hours ago, el jefe said:

My wife currently has an Extension of Stay Based on Retirement that expires on Dec 15, 2018.

Since you will get a 90 day entry from the non-o visa you can wait until your wife does her extension to apply for yours.

You will need your marriage certificate, copies of you wife's passport photo page and her current extension of stay stamp when you apply for the non-o visa at the consulate in NY.

[el jefe]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

There is only one application form for all extension of stay and it is a TM7 form.

The biggest requirement is you having your marriage certificate to apply for the extension. Unless it has already been legalized in the state where it was issued and then by the department of state you will need to do a self certification of it at the US consulate in Chiang Mai by doing an affidavit. See: https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/authentication-vital-records/

 

Since you will get a 90 day entry from the non-o visa you can wait until your wife does her extension to apply for yours.

You will need your marriage certificate, copies of you wife's passport photo page and her current extension of stay stamp when you apply for the non-o visa at the consulate in NY.

I understand the first part and waiting until after she does her extension, but why do I need her info for my Non-O visa? I'll go in to the consulate and ask, but if I submit those documents would that eliminate my need for the medical certificate and police report? Or can I submit my medical certificate, police report, and all other required documents to get my own Non-O visa now and then get a Spousal Extension in Dec?

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, el jefe said:

I understand the first part and waiting until after she does her extension, but why do I need her info for my Non-O visa? I'll go in to the consulate and ask, but if I submit those documents would that eliminate my need for the medical certificate and police report? Or can I submit my medical certificate, police report, and all other required documents to get my own Non-O visa now and then get a Spousal Extension in Dec?

The documents you mentioned are for a non-oa multiple entry long stay visa not a normal non-o visa. It also requires financial proof.

All you need is a single entry non-o visa. You would need nothing more than what I mentioned to get it.

[el jefe]

On 9/14/2018 at 10:08 PM, ubonjoe said:

The documents you mentioned are for a non-oa multiple entry long stay visa not a normal non-o visa. It also requires financial proof.

All you need is a single entry non-o visa. You would need nothing more than what I mentioned to get it.

I just got back from the NY Consulate and spoke to the same person whom I have been dealing with for 10+ years. he said that the NY Consulate will not issue Non-O visas; only O-A's. He couldn't answer any questions about what other Consulates in the US might do or what Thai Immigration might do.

 

So, I'm back where I started but I have a new question -- if I go through the procedure to get a one year O-A visa (medical certificate, police report, etc) and get the re-entry permits, will the following scenario work?:

I get the visa on Oct 1, 2018

Arrive in Thailand on Oct 5, 2018. I believe that starts my clock/calendar and I will be given one year, until Oct 4, 2019.

I come and go and enter Thailand on July 15, 2019. Will that give me until July 14, 2020 on the same visa, effectively giving me almost 2 years?

If I don't enter Thailand again before Oct 4, 2019, I should be able to get an Extension Based on Retirement any time in the 45 days before July 14, 2020, right?

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

[elviajero]

42 minutes ago, el jefe said:

So, I'm back where I started but I have a new question -- if I go through the procedure to get a one year O-A visa (medical certificate, police report, etc) and get the re-entry permits, will the following scenario work?:

I get the visa on Oct 1, 2018

Arrive in Thailand on Oct 5, 2018. I believe that starts my clock/calendar and I will be given one year, until Oct 4, 2019.

I come and go and enter Thailand on July 15, 2019. Will that give me until July 14, 2020 on the same visa, effectively giving me almost 2 years?

If I don't enter Thailand again before Oct 4, 2019, I should be able to get an Extension Based on Retirement any time in the 45 days before July 14, 2020, right?

If the visa is issued on Oct 1, 2018 it will be valid for entries until Sep 30, 2019.

• Yes, if you arrive on Oct 5, 2018 you will be given permission to stay until Oct 4, 2019.
• Yes, if you make an entry on Jul 15, 2019 you will be given permission to stay until July 14, 2020.
• If you want to maximise the visa you should make a final entry just before Sep 30, 2019.
• Yes, you can apply for an extension of stay in the last 45 (maybe 30) days before July 14, 2020, OR any permission to stay. 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, el jefe said:

If I don't enter Thailand again before Oct 4, 2019, I should be able to get an Extension Based on Retirement any time in the 45 days before July 14, 2020, right?

Correct but you could get a re-entry permit to keep that last one year entry valid if you wanted to travel after the visa expires.

[el jefe]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Correct but you could get a re-entry permit to keep that last one year entry valid if you wanted to travel after the visa expires.

Thanks. I do plan on getting Multiple Entry Re-entry Permits since I normally leave and re-enter Thailand 4-6 times a year. The goal now though is to get the time frame for the annual extension to the best possible time.

Whenever I do my Extension Based on Retirement will set the date for all future renewals. I've been in Thailand for most of the past 13 years but have never been in country from August 10 to October 1 and don't see that changing. That's why I'm asking if the one year Non O-A gets me two years. That will allow me to time my entries so I can do my first Extension in mid-July. All future extensions would then be renewable in June/July. With that additional info, dos my plan make sense?

[ubonjoe]

18 minutes ago, el jefe said:

That's why I'm asking if the one year Non O-A gets me two years. That will allow me to time my entries so I can do my first Extension in mid-July. All future extensions would then be renewable in June/July. With that additional info, dos my plan make sense?

You can get a total stay of almost 2 years from the OA visa.

To time the date you apply for the extension might be hard to do if you travel frequently. You would have to time the last one year entry you do before the visa expires to end in June or July. The best way do do that is to apply for the visa so that it expires in June or July and then do an entry just before that date. That way the re-entry permit would always give you a entry in one of those months.

[NancyL]

It's really a good idea for each person to have their own visa and eventually their own extension of stay, if the financial requirement isn't too onerous.  That's because if the primary visa/extension holder dies or the marriage otherwise ends, then the spouse no longer has permission to stay and can apply for a seven day extension.  Which means, the grieving spouse has seven days to leave the country, go to a neighboring country, presumably to apply for a tourist visa and start the process over again.  During this time, the surviving spouse is busy sorting out financial affairs and funds are usually tied up for too long a period in probate, even with a Final Will, to age sufficiently for the surviving spouse to be able to age an 800,000 baht retirement bank account in Thailand.

 

I've seen this happen several times to friends in Chiang Mai, where they have to scramble around to borrow money from friends sufficient to open an 800,000 baht bank account in Thailand and also go to Vientiane in Laos to obtain a tourist visa to buy time and then go through the visa-conversion process in Chiang Mai -- not an easy process, since the local immigration office makes this particular task difficult to execute DIY without an agent.  All the while, trying to sort out the "estates" of their late husbands, most of whom left behind some real messes.

[el jefe]

12 hours ago, NancyL said:

It's really a good idea for each person to have their own visa and eventually their own extension of stay, if the financial requirement isn't too onerous.  That's because if the primary visa/extension holder dies or the marriage otherwise ends, then the spouse no longer has permission to stay and can apply for a seven day extension.  Which means, the grieving spouse has seven days to leave the country, go to a neighboring country, presumably to apply for a tourist visa and start the process over again.  During this time, the surviving spouse is busy sorting out financial affairs and funds are usually tied up for too long a period in probate, even with a Final Will, to age sufficiently for the surviving spouse to be able to age an 800,000 baht retirement bank account in Thailand.

 

I've seen this happen several times to friends in Chiang Mai, where they have to scramble around to borrow money from friends sufficient to open an 800,000 baht bank account in Thailand and also go to Vientiane in Laos to obtain a tourist visa to buy time and then go through the visa-conversion process in Chiang Mai -- not an easy process, since the local immigration office makes this particular task difficult to execute DIY without an agent.  All the while, trying to sort out the "estates" of their late husbands, most of whom left behind some real messes.

Nancy, you posted the identical response to me a year ago when I asked a question about O and O-A visas. Since it's obvious that I can't do the paperwork with the NY Consulate that would allow me to get a spousal visa, I assume this was directed at those who posted replies recommending that, as well as others who might be reading along.

 

But I do have a question regarding the scenario you describe. If someone were to get a spousal visa and their spouse died how would Immigration know to notify the surviving spouse that they had 7 days to leave? Would the hospital or police notify Immigration and then Immigration would check to see if the deceased had any dependents attached to that visa/extension? And then immigration would have to notify the surviving spouse. Otherwise, the surviving spouse wouldn't know they had to leave until they went to Immigration for another matter (90 day report or extension, or arrival/departure on an international flight).

 

As for me, I procrastinated too long in getting the necessary info so I'll be back the easiest way, on an ME TV, as usual.

[NancyL]

10 hours ago, el jefe said:

Nancy, you posted the identical response to me a year ago when I asked a question about O and O-A visas. Since it's obvious that I can't do the paperwork with the NY Consulate that would allow me to get a spousal visa, I assume this was directed at those who posted replies recommending that, as well as others who might be reading along.

 

But I do have a question regarding the scenario you describe. If someone were to get a spousal visa and their spouse died how would Immigration know to notify the surviving spouse that they had 7 days to leave? Would the hospital or police notify Immigration and then Immigration would check to see if the deceased had any dependents attached to that visa/extension? And then immigration would have to notify the surviving spouse. Otherwise, the surviving spouse wouldn't know they had to leave until they went to Immigration for another matter (90 day report or extension, or arrival/departure on an international flight).

 

As for me, I procrastinated too long in getting the necessary info so I'll be back the easiest way, on an ME TV, as usual.

It is the responsibility of the dependent spouse to notify immigration.  They will be on overstay and handled in the same way as anyone on overstay would be treated.  

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, NancyL said:

It is the responsibility of the dependent spouse to notify immigration.  They will be on overstay and handled in the same way as anyone on overstay would be treated.  

Since nobody notifies immigration they would not know about it until the spouse went to immigration to do something. They could probably even get away with doing 90 day reports without a problem.

The spouse could stay for sometime without a problem and then leave the country without a problem. If they wanted to remain here they could get a non-o or tourist visa while out of the country and get an extension if they wanted to.

[NancyL]

27 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Since nobody notifies immigration they would not know about it until the spouse went to immigration to do something. They could probably even get away with doing 90 day reports without a problem.

The spouse could stay for sometime without a problem and then leave the country without a problem. If they wanted to remain here they could get a non-o or tourist visa while out of the country and get an extension if they wanted to.

Chiang Mai is a small place and Immigration has found out in a couple of situations. Remember many people here use agents to handle their immigration contacts.

[el jefe]

6 hours ago, NancyL said:

Chiang Mai is a small place and Immigration has found out in a couple of situations. Remember many people here use agents to handle their immigration contacts.

Are you implying that the agents are turning in widows immediately after the husband dies just so they can profit from the problems they create? I realize that CM Immigration runs by a different set of rules than the rest of the country, but that's a new extreme.

[NancyL]

18 hours ago, el jefe said:

Are you implying that the agents are turning in widows immediately after the husband dies just so they can profit from the problems they create? I realize that CM Immigration runs by a different set of rules than the rest of the country, but that's a new extreme.

Let's just say that widows contact the agents they've used in the past and receive the advice that they are now on overstay and have had to pay fines when they go to Immigration with their agents by their side to "help" them.

 

The agents could have given them the advise that UbonJoe did to quietly leave the country and apply for a tourist visa, but they don't.