Passport Seized Overstay

[Just Weird]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Show some proof of it. 

Immigration has no authority to waive a overstay or the fine for one. Try finding it here Immigration Act B.E. 2522 English translation .

Joe, what the OP is talking about is not an overstay in the usual sense of the word (meaning that he incurred it himself) that would be covered by that Act, it was apparently out of his control and allowances or exceptions are made for that.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Just Weird

[Scouse123]

3 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

Joe, what the OP is talking about is not an overstay in the usual sense of the word in that he incurred it himself, it was apparently out of his control and allowances or exceptions are made for that.

Yes,

 

It is out of his control.

 

And the procedure to resolve it is as I have outlined above in a previous post.

[Machiavelli]

On 9/17/2018 at 12:19 PM, ubonjoe said:

You will be fined 500 baht a day up to a maximum of 20,000 baht (40 days).

A overstay of more than 90 days will result in a ban from entering the country for one year. Rules follow.

 

This case goes to the "down for the count" chart 2. Only two options in play. ?

[Just Weird]

6 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

No, not because imcagr said so.

 

You are wrong because that is not how the system works but you refuse to accept it and keep trying to apply western logic.

 

This is one of those times where the Thai police all stand by their positions in whichever branch of the police they are in.

 

The local police may have the passport but are not interested in his immigration status. The onus is all on him.

 

It is up to him to get the name of the officer who has the passport, his phone number, and any receipt or documents and take them to immigration and explain if this is not cleared he will go into overstay. That is the way forward and preferably with a Thai who holds some respect or a Thai lawyer, both to gain clarity and as a witness.

 

And the reason I know ' my assertion is fact '  is because I have been there, read the book and seen the film in 2001 with the Immigration authorities both in Pattaya and Bangkok.

Great.  Very comical. I don't think.  

 

Did I ever occur to anyone here that I may be standing my ground because I have been there?

[Just Weird]

9 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

Yes,

 

It is out of his control.

 

And the procedure to resolve it is as I have outlined above in a previous post.

Not necessarily.

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

Great.  Very comical. I don't think.  

 

Did I ever occur to anyone here that I may be standing my ground because I have been there?

 

You just continuously never fail to talk nonsense, it's like a mantra with you where you refuse to accept facts even when they stare at you in the face!

 

You could pick an argument or disagreement in an empty house.

[BestB]

2 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

BestB,

 

I agree with you partly as I too, many moons ago,(the year 2001) had a similar situation. I accept their procedures may have changed.

 

The only reason this differs to me is that it doesn't seem like this guys case is in the court yet.

 

When I had a court case, I had to leave my passport at the court, then when I was due to extend, an immigration officer was allocated, it ended up being the same one all the time. He would go to the court with me, take the passport, do the immigration paperwork, and return it to the court until the next time.

 

The onus was always on me to remember to go to immigration at the time it was due to expire.

 

However, this guys case is still at the police station, not the court or seems to be from what he is saying.

 

I have read your situation as well, and both cases strike me as a bit ' odd '  that the police can just hold your passport like this. I know those bastards are a law unto themselves.

 

Did they give you an official receipt? and did you consult a lawyer as to the legality of them doing this?

No, no paper or receipt was given.

 

tried to negotiate but cop was just not interested but eventually gave it back and never asked for it again .

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

and preferably with a Thai who holds some respect or a Thai lawyer, both to gain clarity and as a witness.

Not just preferable that he takes someone like this along with him, but IMHO essential, particularly from the witness angle, to assured progress on an extension of stay application prior to going into overstay. Otherwise, if he went on his tod down to the cop shop holding his passport and was basically told to f*** off by the duty officer (a possibility which he would ignore at his peril, I think), that would then presumably be that as regards any chance of his avoiding overstay (unless, of course, he could then rustle up someone to act as a witness for another go).

Edited September 18, 2018 by OJAS

[Skeptic7]

8 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Yes, I know and respect the scope of UJ's knowledge but that does not mean that every word he says is gospel or that he is infallible.  I happen to know that my assertion is fact.

You've totally deflected from the real point of my post and obviously have very limited experience with Thailand and it's illogical, irrational, wavering ways. 

 

FYI...very few, if any, of the gospels are true and/or accurate. Don't confuse fiction with reality and facts...to do so is just weird. 

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Skeptic7

[gk10002000]

On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 1:24 AM, Just Weird said:

I don't believe that to be the case.  Why should they be if the overstay is beyond their control?   

Why fined?  Because they can be!  Even in the US there are many situations where one is incarcerated but still liable for costs and events happening outside of jail.

[NoshowJones]

On 9/17/2018 at 6:24 AM, Just Weird said:

I don't believe that to be the case.  Why should they be if the overstay is beyond their control?   

This is Thai immigration you are talking about here, they know nothing about fairness.

[NoshowJones]

On 9/17/2018 at 7:44 AM, Ks45672 said:

I was in bedridden in hospital after an accident years ago 

The doctor told me not to worry she will write a letter to show to immigration 

They had zero interest in the letter and gave me 2 choices, pay 20,000 or go to jail 

Had to pay and go back to hospital again

 

I believe you, I know of another similar case.

[NoshowJones]

On 9/17/2018 at 9:43 AM, dutchinlondon said:

Best advice to give is to contact your embassy. normally they cant hold your passport without a provincial court order.

I read in Thaivisa before that a UK passport is the property of the UK government, and no other government have the right to hold it.

[NoshowJones]

On 9/17/2018 at 12:05 PM, BestB said:

What you think in this case makes no difference at all.

 

what actually happens does .

 

police and immigration do not work hand in hand.

 

there are no provisions in immigration act to cater for those who’s passport being held by police .

 

i was in similar situation, but was smart enough to negotiate passport release to extend visa.

 

I was late by 1 day and immigration was ready to arrest me.

 

They also confirmed not reporting every 90 days or visa expired due to police matters do not relate to them and actions will be taken as per act.

"police and immigration do not work hand in hand". Thai immigration are the police.

[BestB]

2 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I read in Thaivisa before that a UK passport is the property of the UK government, and no other government have the right to hold it.

its 100% true, but you will find embassy's are very reluctant to get involved in matters like this, as alternative would be locked up in the cells until matter is finished and this can take months if not years if cops chose too.

[BestB]

2 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

"police and immigration do not work hand in hand". Thai immigration are the police.

lol, no, different divisions. Royal Thai Police, and Immigration Bureau

[Ks45672]

23 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I read in Thaivisa before that a UK passport is the property of the UK government, and no other government have the right to hold it.

Passports usually belong to the nation who issued them (ministry of foreign affairs or equivalent ) if you read the fine print nobody reads.... 

 

The person using it doesn't own it and they are not supposed to be left with any 3rd partys as a security deposit for renting vehicles etc but we've all done it... ? 

 

One of my friend used to run a motorbike rental and people (Russians usually) got drunk, crashed expensive bikes and then didn't want to pay for the repairs so they didn't get their passports back until the bill was paid at the copshop

 

When the Malaysian plane mh-370 disappeared two people on it were travelling on "lost" passports  or something ,  shops were told keeping peoples passports is not cool anymore 

 

After a couple of months it went back to normal  and they still keep passports  or the alternative a  larger cash deposit if you won't give them the passport .....up2u ? 

[NoshowJones]

13 minutes ago, Ks45672 said:

Passports usually belong to the nation who issued them (ministry of foreign affairs or equivalent ) if you read the fine print nobody reads.... 

 

The person using it doesn't own it and they are not supposed to be left with any 3rd partys as a security deposit for renting vehicles etc but we've all done it... ? 

 

One of my friend used to run a motorbike rental and people (Russians usually) got drunk, crashed expensive bikes and then didn't want to pay for the repairs so they didn't get their passports back until the bill was paid at the copshop

 

When the Malaysian plane mh-370 disappeared two people on it were travelling on "lost" passports  or something ,  shops were told keeping peoples passports is not cool anymore 

 

After a couple of months it went back to normal  and they still keep passports  or the alternative a  larger cash deposit if you won't give them the passport .....up2u ? 

I will never hand over my passport for security for anything.

[merijn]

I have seen both happening very often.

People are handed over to immigration after their court case only to be taken into costidy for overstay as they went into overstay while their passport was held by Thai authorities.

It happens also often that police with the person will come to the immigration office to get a (court case) extension so the person does not get into overstay while the passport is held by Thai authorities.

It all depends on the police mentality in that case and how the affected person is behaving.

[Ks45672]

15 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I will never hand over my passport for security for anything.

I do it from time to time but I live here so the shop can't extort me like they can a 2week tourist 

 

Never had anything dishonest happen though I have not crashed their bikes either

 

 

[BestB]

15 minutes ago, merijn said:

I have seen both happening very often.

People are handed over to immigration after their court case only to be taken into costidy for overstay as they went into overstay while their passport was held by Thai authorities.

It happens also often that police with the person will come to the immigration office to get a (court case) extension so the person does not get into overstay while the passport is held by Thai authorities.

It all depends on the police mentality in that case and how the affected person is behaving.

That’s ecactky right, as the saying goes “ catch more bees with honey than with shit”

 

In my case. Cop was actually friendly , and so was i with him. Despite court telling me to file a complaint for not returning passport , I decided to use more honey, only because I do not know what awaits ahead and it paid off . Got my passport back and matter kind of went away, for time being anyway. Should something eventuate again, I am certain I could ask him for “help” 

 

thai way?

Edited September 18, 2018 by BestB

[The manic]

9 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

You just continuously never fail to talk nonsense, it's like a mantra with you where you refuse to accept facts even when they stare at you in the face!

 

You could pick an argument or disagreement in an empty house.

There are plenty of such obtuse people here on this forum who's ill founded 'thoughts' and opinions are immune to fact or logic. 

[JaiLai]

21 minutes ago, The manic said:

There are plenty of such obtuse people here on this forum who's ill founded 'thoughts' and opinions are immune to fact or logic. 

Perhaps he's Nigerian, they love a good argument with a gate post or two....

[The manic]

11 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Joe, what the OP is talking about is not an overstay in the usual sense of the word (meaning that he incurred it himself) that would be covered by that Act, it was apparently out of his control and allowances or exceptions are made for that.

The passport may be out of his possession but the situation is still subject to his influence and control. Rather than rely on a Dr he should have used an intermediary,  hired an agent, used a third party, or made arrangements with the police to exercise control over the situation. It might not seem fair or logical but that is the case with many laws in many countries.

 

[Scouse123]

15 hours ago, possum1931 said:

"police and immigration do not work hand in hand". Thai immigration are the police.

 

Yes, they are but what I think the poster was meaning is they act independently as and when it suits them, and they work together also, only when it suits them.

 

15 hours ago, possum1931 said:

I read in Thaivisa before that a UK passport is the property of the UK government, and no other government have the right to hold it.

 

My British Consul advised me it was common practice when a ' case was in the courts ' that in Thailand they hold the passport in some cases. I don't say it is right.

 

Many years ago I had a case, I then put forward this exact argument about the document is the property of the UK government, which it is. I was told if this was pushed, that the courts could have got difficult and  I could have found that my bail was withdrawn. The Thai argument being that if I was on bail and not allowed to leave the country, I didn't need it and the receipt they provided was sufficient.

 

I was, however, also told that if they continually held my passport without good reason, the Embassy could see fit to cancel it and issue another one.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Scouse123

[Just Weird]

16 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

You've totally deflected from the real point of my post and obviously have very limited experience with Thailand and it's illogical, irrational, wavering ways. 

 

FYI...very few, if any, of the gospels are true and/or accurate. Don't confuse fiction with reality and facts...to do so is just weird. 

 

It's really so sad that you don't know what "gospel" means.  It's a synonym for truth, or accuracy, nothing whatsoever to do with "the gospels"!

[Just Weird]

16 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Why fined?  Because they can be!  Even in the US there are many situations where one is incarcerated but still liable for costs and events happening outside of jail.

What's the relevance of the US please?

[Just Weird]

13 hours ago, JaiLai said:

Perhaps he's Nigerian, they love a good argument with a gate post or two....

Nah, I'm white.

[JaiLai]

48 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

Nah, I'm white.

Albino?

[Just Weird]

20 minutes ago, JaiLai said:

Albino?

Why?  Are you suggesting that if I am would that mean something?

Edited September 19, 2018 by Just Weird