Britons would narrowly back remaining in the EU: poll of polls

[Bluespunk]

50 minutes ago, Hogs said:

The PEOPLE VOTED 

RESPECT IT you dont get to play the cup Final a second time because your teams lost 

Suck it up snowflake UK IS LEAVING that is 100% if not watch what happens

 

Ah, the logic of those who would deny others their democratic rights.

 

Just because there has been one vote, does not preclude another.

 

Oh, and for your information...

 

They replay the cup every year. 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2018 by Bluespunk

[blazes]

  I missed the 1945 General Election.  Any chance we could have a replay?

[Jip99]

10 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Ah, the logic of those who would deny others their democratic rights.

 

Just because there has been one vote, does not preclude another.

 

Oh, and for your information...

 

They replay the cup every year. 

 

 

 

 

You may may need to re-visit the definition of democratic rights....you appear to be confused.

 

In the case of the Brexit referendum the democratic rights were exercised on 23 June 2016.

[rixalex]

 
It might have its attractions to some of the smaller nations (although most seem to value their individuality), but it highly unlikely that all 28, 27 (or however many members there are at the time) would agree to it. Juncker, coming from a small country, often talks along those lines but nobody (apart from the British press) takes him that seriously. Perhaps the one good thing to have come out of Brexit so far is that he has learned to rein in some of his more outlandish suggestions.

Interesting that you say Juncker talks along those lines too. With all the distortion that goes on, I wasn't sure. If someone who is arguing against the idea that US of E will ever happen, concedes this, I'm even more concerned.

Re what you say about Brexit reining in certain ideas, surely it's just as possible that Brexit might push forward certain ideas if they have the effect of making the disintegration of the EU less likely? Locking countries in beyond the point of no return certainly does that. Are you really ruling it out altogether?

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[rixalex]

Ah, the logic of those who would deny others their democratic rights.
 
Just because there has been one vote, does not preclude another.
 
Oh, and for your information...
 
They replay the cup every year. 
 
 

Of course one vote doesn't preclude another. What you support goes beyond that. You want one vote to be ignored and another to be implemented. And then you have the cheek to accuse others of "denying democratic rights".

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Bluespunk]

18 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You may may need to re-visit the definition of democratic rights....you appear to be confused.

 

In the case of the Brexit referendum the democratic rights were exercised on 23 June 2016.

As I say, still not a reason to deny others their democratic right to call for another vote. 

 

That is authoritarianism. 

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Of course one vote doesn't preclude another. What you support goes beyond that. You want one vote to be ignored and another to be implemented. And then you have the cheek to accuse others of "denying democratic rights".

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Please don’t tell me what I want. 

 

All I have said is one vote does not preclude another and no one should deny others their democratic right to call for another vote. 

[NaamGin]

5 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Of course one vote doesn't preclude another. What you support goes beyond that. You want one vote to be ignored and another to be implemented. And then you have the cheek to accuse others of "denying democratic rights".

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

No, they just want to keep holding referendums until they get the results that they want. 

[Jip99]

4 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Of course one vote doesn't preclude another. What you support goes beyond that. You want one vote to be ignored and another to be implemented. And then you have the cheek to accuse others of "denying democratic rights".

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

 

I would go a step further and say the first vote DOES preclude another - in that, David Cameron was very clear about it being a once in a lifetime vote..... even weasly George Osborn said the same..

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-cameron/cameron-says-no-second-eu-referendum-if-result-is-close-idUKKCN0Y81VK

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35319146

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Please don’t tell me what I want. 

 

All I have said is one vote does not preclude another and no one should deny others their democratic right to call for another vote. 

 

 

That isn’t a democratic right it is simply the reaction of a poor loser.

[Bluespunk]

18 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

That isn’t a democratic right it is simply the reaction of a poor loser.

No. 

 

It is simply people letting their will be known. 

Edited September 29, 2018 by Bluespunk

[iroc4life]

To keep it democratic as some have suggested maybe Briton should do 2 more votes and follow the best 2 out of 3 ????????

Some opinions of democracy is different haha 

[Andrew65]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

And your "quote" is still a fake. Which error is more significant?

Which quote? There are two.

[Andrew65]

4 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

 

...also quoted by ...........erm............the Jean Monnet Foundation, funded by the EU.

 

There might be at least a grain of truth in it?

[Stupooey]

5 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I would go a step further and say the first vote DOES preclude another - in that, David Cameron was very clear about it being a once in a lifetime vote..... even weasly George Osborn said the same..

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-cameron/cameron-says-no-second-eu-referendum-if-result-is-close-idUKKCN0Y81VK

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35319146

 

I think what Cameron meant was once in his political lifetime.

[rixalex]

5 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Please don’t tell me what I want. 

 

All I have said is one vote does not preclude another and no one should deny others their democratic right to call for another vote. 

What you want is bleedin' obvious. What do you think the, "i'm just standing up for the rights of others" pretense serves?

 

And no, that is not all you have said. What you propose is the 2016 vote be ignored, and a new vote take its place. Unless i am missing the part in which you stand up for the rights of all those who voted leave in 2016 and were promised that their decision would be implemented, and call for that vote to be respected first, before another vote is held?

 

Didn't think so.

[blazes]

37 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

I think what Cameron meant was once in his political lifetime.

 

But he was arrogant enough to imagine that his political lifetime might be the next twenty years....

[Stupooey]

23 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

But he was arrogant enough to imagine that his political lifetime might be the next twenty years....

 

...but only if the vote had gone his way. Which, you have to admit, he was not alone in believing it would. Nobody on either side had made any preparations for a Leave vote, which has led to the current situation in the UK.

[Stupooey]

6 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Which quote? There are two.

 

Your first quote, to which bristolboy was clearly referring, is the fake, although that has not stopped posters endlessly repeating it. You quickly snuck in a second quote when you realised you had been made to look a right p***.

 

This time it was a genuine Monnet, but you cut the quote off mid-sentence, dramatically altering its meaning. As I pointed out, it was made in 1943, at the height of WWII with its result still in doubt, when people were coming up with suggestions to ensure it never happened again. His idea of some sort of a European economic union was not such a bad one.

 

Remember that the overriding philosophy behind the EU in its various guises has been to keep the peace. Perhaps this does not rest comfortably with the English, who seem to be happier when they are at war - Thatcher's popularity was never greater than when she was asking the nation to "rejoice" at the re-capture of South Georgia in the Falklands War.

 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Stupooey
Correction of historical detail.

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

What you want is bleedin' obvious. What do you think the, "i'm just standing up for the rights of others" pretense serves?

 

And no, that is not all you have said. What you propose is the 2016 vote be ignored, and a new vote take its place. Unless i am missing the part in which you stand up for the rights of all those who voted leave in 2016 and were promised that their decision would be implemented, and call for that vote to be respected first, before another vote is held?

 

Didn't think so.

Nothing you say changes the fact that denying others the right to call for another vote is authoritarianism and anti democratic. 

 

Those who voted leave can do so again. 

 

Why so scared?

 

You must believe you’ll win any new vote. 

[Kieran00001]

7 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

...also quoted by ...........erm............the Jean Monnet Foundation, funded by the EU.

 

There might be at least a grain of truth in it?

 

Your second quote was a real Monnet quote, your first one was not, and that is the danger with using BrainyQuote, it is not fact checked.

[vogie]

35 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Nothing you say changes the fact that denying others the right to call for another vote is authoritarianism and anti democratic. 

 

Those who voted leave can do so again. 

 

Why so scared?

 

You must believe you’ll win any new vote. 

It's not a case of being scared, it is like going to the fairground and winning a coconut, but then the man on the stall asks you to win the coconut again before you can take it home.

 

The only people who are scared, are the remainers and they are scared of acting on a democratic vote, and the people that are advocating this just shows their mentality.

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

It's not a case of being scared, it is like going to the fairground and winning a coconut, but then the man on the stall asks you to win the coconut again before you can take it home.

 

The only people who are scared, are the remainers and they are scared of acting on a democratic vote, and the people that are advocating this just shows their mentality.

 

Regarding your fairground analogy -no it’s not. 

 

Those campaigning for a new vote are indeed worried by the consequences of brexit. 

 

They have every right to campaign and call for a new vote because of those concerns. 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Bluespunk
Spellcheck

[vogie]

21 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

 

Regarding your fairground analogy -no it’s not. 

 

Those campaigning for a new vote are indeed worried by the consequences of brexit. 

 

They have every right to campaign and call for a new vote because of those concerns. 

And which political party are you going to lobby to give you this vote, all the parties are not in favour of such a negative action apart from the LibDems of course who lost many seats in the General Election for backing such nonsense. I'm afraid as much as you would like another referendum it doesn't appear to be on the table now does it.

[Bluespunk]

36 minutes ago, vogie said:

And which political party are you going to lobby to give you this vote, all the parties are not in favour of such a negative action apart from the LibDems of course who lost many seats in the General Election for backing such nonsense. I'm afraid as much as you would like another referendum it doesn't appear to be on the table now does it.

I'm not lobbying any UK party.

 

I don't live in the UK.

 

I've not called for a referendum.

 

I'm just against the authoritarian voices that would deny democratic rights to others.

Edited September 30, 2018 by Bluespunk

[Kieran00001]

29 minutes ago, vogie said:

And which political party are you going to lobby to give you this vote, all the parties are not in favour of such a negative action apart from the LibDems of course who lost many seats in the General Election for backing such nonsense. I'm afraid as much as you would like another referendum it doesn't appear to be on the table now does it.

 

Be completely honest, do you think May is trying her hardest?  The only way May is going to get herself out of this one is by making it as unattractive as she can in the hope that there will be a vote of no confidence followed by a GE, if that happens then we will likely see Labour flip and support a second referendum. 

[vogie]

26 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Be completely honest, do you think May is trying her hardest?  The only way May is going to get herself out of this one is by making it as unattractive as she can in the hope that there will be a vote of no confidence followed by a GE, if that happens then we will likely see Labour flip and support a second referendum. 

Labour doesn't know what it wants, Starmer is saying 'another referendum', McDonnall is saying 'no second referendum' and Corbyn doesn't know, he won't commit to answering questions put to him. Lets not forget that Corbyn is the biggest Eurosceptic in the country.

May is a remainer and shouldn't be in that position.

[Kieran00001]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

Labour doesn't know what it wants, Starmer is saying 'another referendum', McDonnall is saying 'no second referendum' and Corbyn doesn't know, he won't commit to answering questions put to him. Lets not forget that Corbyn is the biggest Eurosceptic in the country.

May is a remainer and shouldn't be in that position.

 

Labour are keeping their options open in case of a GE.

 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, rixalex said:

Interesting that you say Juncker talks along those lines too. With all the distortion that goes on, I wasn't sure. If someone who is arguing against the idea that US of E will ever happen, concedes this, I'm even more concerned.

Re what you say about Brexit reining in certain ideas, surely it's just as possible that Brexit might push forward certain ideas if they have the effect of making the disintegration of the EU less likely? Locking countries in beyond the point of no return certainly does that. Are you really ruling it out altogether?

Continental Europeans see EU very differently compared how UK see EU.

 

For us EU is strength in numbers. This applies to doing trade, but it also applies to other fields or federal co-operation. 

 

UK's politicians have blamed EU for everything. When the blame has been valid for EU actions, but also for their own mistakes. Rather radical press has helped demonising EU in the eyes of the people of UK.

 

I was actually rather surprised how much hate there is towards to the EU in UK. I thought these were just few rather grumpy individuals, but I guess it's not the case. 

 

Now that UK is leaving EU, it gives us more opportunities to strengthen other areas of co-operation. Defence forces, border control, common federal budget for some areas. These naturally take long time and will have to be agreed by all nations. But if the benefits are substantial, why not to try how it goes. 

 

Thanks you UK for the work you did for us. Single market and giving us common language, called bad English. 

[vogie]

16 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Continental Europeans see EU very differently compared how UK see EU.

 

For us EU is strength in numbers. This applies to doing trade, but it also applies to other fields or federal co-operation. 

 

UK's politicians have blamed EU for everything. When the blame has been valid for EU actions, but also for their own mistakes. Rather radical press has helped demonising EU in the eyes of the people of UK.

 

I was actually rather surprised how much hate there is towards to the EU in UK. I thought these were just few rather grumpy individuals, but I guess it's not the case. 

 

Now that UK is leaving EU, it gives us more opportunities to strengthen other areas of co-operation. Defence forces, border control, common federal budget for some areas. These naturally take long time and will have to be agreed by all nations. But if the benefits are substantial, why not to try how it goes. 

 

Thanks you UK for the work you did for us. Single market and giving us common language, called bad English. 

Holly, we still want to be your friend, we just don't want you telling us what wallpaper we can have on our walls and what flowers we can grow in our garden.

Maybe the next Ryder cup we can go back to the Great Britain and Ireland format though, I'm sure the Americans won't object.