AirBnB vs Hotels - battle lines drawn in fight for tourist dollars in Chiang Mai

[hobz]

21 minutes ago, jrjrjr said:

 

and you you would have until the rest of your life to dream about it ❤️

if anybody could do anything I would know it maybe, I am renting 20+ condo in BKK and Pattaya...

So yes, keep dreaming about your marvelous powers ❤️

 

https://www.zdnet.com/article/noisy-airbnb-guests-in-victoria-could-be-fined-up-to-au1100/

 

Maybe something like this will happen in Thailand too.. fining tourists seems to fit with Thai thinking ????

[Pinot]

3 hours ago, blackhorse said:

That would be extremely unlikely. Something is missing in your story. Can you provide the air bnb link to that property?

 

Luxury has nothing to do with condo size. The room could be decked out in Versace and be 10 sqm.. Perhaps Next time ask about room size BEFORE you book?

 

By the way all listing changes are time stamped for obvious reasons .. So has nothing to do with "not admitting it"

 

I change one word on my listing and I get an instant email saying you made changes

 

Sorry but Something off with your story

 

You sound like my Airbnb support rep. Literally, 25 emails trying to work out a financial compromise for an unhappy customer that thought (knows) he got screwed. 

 

I'm not going into details because it would be too tedious and painful. It was a week of Airbnb hell. I was ripped off by my Airbnb host.  

 

I'm going to contest the charge with my Visa. It might work. I'm also sending an email to the management of the building. The host told me not to tell the building I was an Airbnb customer. Obviously, condo owners aren't supposed to rent out their units but I'm looking to make life as miserable as I can for the people who screwed me. I told them I was going to file a police report for fraud. Can't be bothered. 

 

The listing now has a price half of what I paid and features the correct studio. They changed the unit they advertised. I asked for a credit of $135. Rather than compromise with an extremely unhappy customer, they chose to stonewall. That pissed me off.  

 

I have a history of renting with Airbnb with no problems. When I ran into a problem, Airbnb refused to support or help compromise between host and renter.  

 

A big middle finger salute to Airbnb.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2018 by Pinot

[moe666]

in the end I may love spending a few nights in the country but in the end I love a bit of night life as well try getting a ride back to say hang dong at 12 midnight you may have a problem or feel like you have been ripped off after arriving back at your AbnB in the middle of no where

[The Deerhunter]

6 hours ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

It would be excellent if tourism diversified into surrounding areas.   Sadly though the author of the article seems to have just made that up, because it's seriously difficult to get guests for a property out of town via AirBnB.   (I know, I've tried.)

Transport for one thing.  Convenient services of any type in many areas would be few. Even shops for tourists requirements would be a common challenge. I think you would have to have a rental car to be able to enjoy your stay in many Thai out-of-the-way places. Hotels are so cheap in regional Thailand that the cost of a rental car would negate any saving by using Air B&B.  I find private houses no attraction to me compared with reasonably priced a 3 star hotel in a Thai town. I have paid 600B down to 300B a night in some N. E. towns. Even in border towns.

[hobz]

1 minute ago, moe666 said:

in the end I may love spending a few nights in the country but in the end I love a bit of night life as well try getting a ride back to say hang dong at 12 midnight you may have a problem or feel like you have been ripped off after arriving back at your AbnB in the middle of no where

Use grab. Works 24/7. Never paid more than 180 THB from town to hang dong.

[BestB]

Here is s funny part . Air bnb is illegal and I believe something 400 + hotels were raided and found to be illegal.

 

illegal only because they do not a paper to rent daily .

 

tourists are in no rush to book into 4-5 star hotels that are “legal”

 

So appears this government has shot itself in the foot.

 

condo owners are not paying any taxes. And to catch and prosecute individual owners is very hard .

 

job well done ????

[bristolgeoff]

If you want to be outside the old town then your choice.lots of choice is good for everybody.just like bars

[fanjita]

1 hour ago, Pinot said:

A big middle finger salute to Airbnb.

 

This is one of the many reasons we've never booked through AirBnB.

 

My wife and I regularly visit Europe from the UK for long weekends and have always booked apartments through booking.com.  We are also regulars to Amsterdam and now avoid booking.com altogether when staying there as we book direct with the landlord of our last booking.com booking as he's charging us half the price by booking direct and his accommodation is the best we've stayed at in AMS.

 

In LOS we always stay in hotels and more often than not international hotels.  On the very rare occasion that I make a complaint to an international hotel then 100% of the time a resolution has been amicably settled.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2018 by fanjita

[blackhorse]

 
You sound like my Airbnb support rep. Literally, 25 emails trying to work out a financial compromise for an unhappy customer that thought (knows) he got screwed. 
 
I'm not going into details because it would be too tedious and painful. It was a week of Airbnb hell. I was ripped off by my Airbnb host.  
 
I'm going to contest the charge with my Visa. It might work. I'm also sending an email to the management of the building. The host told me not to tell the building I was an Airbnb customer. Obviously, condo owners aren't supposed to rent out their units but I'm looking to make life as miserable as I can for the people who screwed me. I told them I was going to file a police report for fraud. Can't be bothered. 
 
The listing now has a price half of what I paid and features the correct studio. They changed the unit they advertised. I asked for a credit of $135. Rather than compromise with an extremely unhappy customer, they chose to stonewall. That pissed me off.  
 
I have a history of renting with Airbnb with no problems. When I ran into a problem, Airbnb refused to support or help compromise between host and renter.  
 
A big middle finger salute to Airbnb.
 
 

You avoided the question of time stamp.

You book at 10am they change from a penthouse to a studio at 10.03 am

It's TIME STAMPED. You would have got a refund.

No offense but you screwed up somewhere and that's why air bnb did not side with you.

I'm guessing that's why you are being cagey on details.

[LomSak27]

8 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

15 hours ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

It would be excellent if tourism diversified into surrounding areas.   Sadly though the author of the article seems to have just made that up, because it's seriously difficult to get guests for a property out of town via AirBnB.   (I know, I've tried.)

Transport for one thing.  Convenient services of any type in many areas would be few. Even shops for tourists requirements would be a common challenge. I think you would have to have a rental car to be able to enjoy your stay in many Thai out-of-the-way places. Hotels are so cheap in regional Thailand that the cost of a rental car would negate any saving by using Air B&B.  I find private houses no attraction to me compared with reasonably priced a 3 star hotel in a Thai town. I have paid 600B down to 300B a night in some N. E. towns. Even in border towns.

 

Diversify my hind quarters. The authors stated the one true fact at the end with little comment

 

Quote

Rooms went up from 34,500 in 2013 to 10,000 more this year. This glut of rooms and the threat of AirBnB sucking tourists away from the cities is a major concern to hotel and guest house operators, said CMN. 

 

There are already far more hotels, GH, Hostels, Boutique Hotels than the market in Chiang Mai can justify and now you add ArBnb?  This has happened in the last 5 years also. There seems to be nothing else to do than build condos and hotels. The thinking seems to be if you build it they will come. I walk through the old town and their are nice old places, empty and nice new Boutique hotels with nary a soul using them. Low season sure but there were never enough tourists here in high season to justify this madness. It is gong to be interesting to see how many can survive after the coming high season and how many go under. 

[hobz]

2 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

 

Diversify my hind quarters. The authors stated the one true fact at the end with little comment

 

 

There are already far more hotels, GH, Hostels, Boutique Hotels than the market in Chiang Mai can justify and now you add ArBnb?  This has happened in the last 5 years also. There seems to be nothing else to do than build condos and hotels. The thinking seems to be if you build it they will come. I walk through the old town and their are nice old places, empty and nice new Boutique hotels with nary a soul using them. Low season sure but there were never enough tourists here in high season to justify this madness. It is gong to be interesting to see how many can survive after the coming high season and how many go under. 

What about the Chinese hords? They estimate it's just gonna get worse every year. Airport expanding. Second airport being fast tracked / on the way. They estimate 20 million tourists by 2030?

[LomSak27]

11 minutes ago, hobz said:

What about the Chinese hords? They estimate it's just gonna get worse every year. Airport expanding. Second airport being fast tracked / on the way. They estimate 20 million tourists by 2030?

 

What about them? Statistics can tell you any thing you want.. What I can say for a fact is that hotel building and making of places has far exceeded the demand. The great Chinese inundation has been touted and happening, but as usual for Thailand the numbers might be, inflated shall we say ...  BUT BUT  How can that be, well it be ..... I suspect a lot of people have bought in to this as what else do you do with the property? "Lets make a hotel" 

The arbnb kerfobble is directly related to this. Even more places to stay when the market is saturated. 

Hey Don't believe me- Come up to Chiang Mai and check it out yourself.
 

And there you have them  actually saying it - This glut of rooms and the threat of AirBnB sucking tourists away from the cities is a major concern - 

Edited September 30, 2018 by LomSak27

[hobz]

18 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

 

What about them? Statistics can tell you any thing you want.. What I can say for a fact is that hotel building and making of places has far exceeded the demand. The great Chinese inundation has been touted and happening, but as usual for Thailand the numbers might be, inflated shall we say ...  BUT BUT  How can that be, well it be ..... I suspect a lot of people have bought in to this as what else do you do with the property? "Lets make a hotel" 

The arbnb kerfobble is directly related to this. Even more places to stay when the market is saturated. 

Hey Don't believe me- Come up to Chiang Mai and check it out yourself.
 

And there you have them  actually saying it - This glut of rooms and the threat of AirBnB sucking tourists away from the cities is a major concern - 

I live in cm and I know how empty most condo buildings are. I know how easy it is to find accomodations.

 

What I'm saying is that the Chinese middle class is growing and the Chinese tourists Will continue to grow. So long term investors (hotel owners) count on this. They might take an L in the short term but over time they will make a profit.

Numbers are probably inflated. But growth prediction is probably not. 

[LomSak27]

It's good they are long term investors, because the next two years are going to be killers. And they keep going up. The 4 boutique hotels, all new (last 3 years) have had no customers that I could see, for late July, August and September. They better be chunk full November through March. That is excluding the 5 big (16 rooms or more) Guest House - Hotels on this extended soi. that have had little or no customers. A decade ago, I lived on this soi - it is shocking. 

[Shocked farang]

Airbnb cannot be avoided. It completely falls under the radar. I have recently had a great experience renting a condo for about a week using Airbnb. Nobody in the building knew I was an Airbnb customer except the receptionist who receives a fee because she is responsible for the cleaning and for giving the keys to the customer. Unless there's an explicit law forbidding Airbnb in Thailand, these hotels should be stepping up their investments in order to compete with Airbnb. 

[hobz]

9 minutes ago, Shocked farang said:

Airbnb cannot be avoided. It completely falls under the radar. I have recently had a great experience renting a condo for about a week using Airbnb. Nobody in the building knew I was an Airbnb customer except the receptionist who receives a fee because she is responsible for the cleaning and for giving the keys to the customer. Unless there's an explicit law forbidding Airbnb in Thailand, these hotels should be stepping up their investments in order to compete with Airbnb. 

It's gonna become illegal if it isn't already. https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1467442/airbnb-bookings-illegal-court-declares

 

There is a loophole with mock 30 day contracts. But any resilient and motivated neighbor would have easy time to document the systematic crime and Sue the shit out of the host.

 

Neighbors to Airbnb hosts probably are pissed. At least some of them. Just look at those insane farangs in Pattaya that went without shirts to confront the noisy Mechanic shop in the news recently.. some peope go insane when they have noisy neighbors...imagine what a higher iq neighbor would do...

 

I think I had an Airbnb host has neighbor before. But it was for a tiny tiny one bedroom condo so there was never any noise...  Those will continue going under the radar because as long as nobody complains it's all good.. but bigger condos / houses will have lots of parties and noise and this means motivated neighbors going to police.

Edited September 30, 2018 by hobz

[clokwise]

I live in fairly remote, small, moobaan, lots of trees, friendly people, quiet. In the last 2 years I've seen every other house that goes up for sale is bought by Chinese and immediately turned into daily rentals. Now we have droves of silver vans coming and going, Chinese walking about the area yapping at high volumes and peeking over our fence. One friend of ours, living next to one of those houses, has moved out because of the constant 24/7 noise. Tourists have no business staying way out here, there's literally nothing out here except residential houses and families. They are slowly destroying our community. They aren't using AirBnB, it's some Chinese website, so it may be much harder to crack down on them, if at all. Some of the neighbors have gotten together and discussed the problem, and we plan to write a letter to the authorities about the properties in question once the law is settled. We want them out.

 

[hobz]

13 minutes ago, clokwise said:

I live in fairly remote, small, moobaan, lots of trees, friendly people, quiet. In the last 2 years I've seen every other house that goes up for sale is bought by Chinese and immediately turned into daily rentals. Now we have droves of silver vans coming and going, Chinese walking about the area yapping at high volumes and peeking over our fence. One friend of ours, living next to one of those houses, has moved out because of the constant 24/7 noise. Tourists have no business staying way out here, there's literally nothing out here except residential houses and families. They are slowly destroying our community. They aren't using AirBnB, it's some Chinese website, so it may be much harder to crack down on them, if at all. Some of the neighbors have gotten together and discussed the problem, and we plan to write a letter to the authorities about the properties in question once the law is settled. We want them out.

 

The law is on your side. Because they need a hotel license to rent less than 30 days.

Try to befriend the Chinese tourists and ask what app they use and ask how long they are staying and try to get it documented somehow.

 

You may need to pay some tea money to get cops to come every time new tourists arrives to document the repeated abuse.. then they will build a case and fine the host and hopefully you can get some compensation... It's gonna cost you but hopefully you get some of the money back in form of compensation...

 

Get the cops to make the tourists show their rental agreement. If it's below 30 days that's a fine for the host immediately. Unless host has hotel license. Doubt that.

 

 

Or befriend the guests (bring a couple of bottles of whiskey) and ask them about the app and take photos of the rental agreement. Bring to police station.

Edited September 30, 2018 by hobz

[Ctkong]

On 9/29/2018 at 5:07 PM, WinnieTheKhwai said:

It would be excellent if tourism diversified into surrounding areas.   Sadly though the author of the article seems to have just made that up, because it's seriously difficult to get guests for a property out of town via AirBnB.   (I know, I've tried.)

My missus and I travel extensively all over northern Thailand .

Though we stayed via AirBnB in chiangmai , we avoid using it in the outlying areas because though the lodging is great, it is secluded and come night time, you may find yourself alone as usually the owners lived elsewhere. The only security between you and potential intruders is only the front door . We had read about lack of security in many areas of Thailand with detrimental consequences. Wouldn’t recommend such accommodation to ladies traveling alone or small group. Hotels ,on the other hand , are somewhat regulated and equipped with some form of security personnel. 

Horror stories of hidden cameras in bathrooms and bedrooms do not help matters too. 

 

 

 

 

[Ctkong]

23 hours ago, Classic Ray said:

This makes as much sense as retail shops complaining about online sellers, and taxi drivers complaining about Grab or Uber. 

 

The battle is lost, the world has changed, and the old models don’t work in Thailand 4.0. 

 

Chiang Mai was found a few months back to have many more unlicensed hotels, some very large, than licensed ones. No enforcement of regulations and the stupid defamation laws means standards have slipped, and the ratings and review systems on apps like AirBnB are far more effective in maintaining standards.

 

i never understood why traditional B and Bs were not common in Thailand, but with the success of AirBnB it shows there was a suppressed demand. Supply and demand is what it’s all about.

Last year my Chinese friends from shanghai ( a group of them ) bought condos in chiangmai for investment . Maybe letting them out short term to Chinese visitors via AirBnB style but Chinese websites? The Chinese prefer making money off each other than to reach out to the masses. There are enough of them visiting chiangmai to keep the business flowing for some time . 

[Ctkong]

9 hours ago, clokwise said:

I live in fairly remote, small, moobaan, lots of trees, friendly people, quiet. In the last 2 years I've seen every other house that goes up for sale is bought by Chinese and immediately turned into daily rentals. Now we have droves of silver vans coming and going, Chinese walking about the area yapping at high volumes and peeking over our fence. One friend of ours, living next to one of those houses, has moved out because of the constant 24/7 noise. Tourists have no business staying way out here, there's literally nothing out here except residential houses and families. They are slowly destroying our community. They aren't using AirBnB, it's some Chinese website, so it may be much harder to crack down on them, if at all. Some of the neighbors have gotten together and discussed the problem, and we plan to write a letter to the authorities about the properties in question once the law is settled. We want them out.

 

Maybe they say that they are visiting relatives in chiangmai... I have had a close friend who called up me to please prepare a welcoming dinner for his relatives visiting Bangkok and parts of Thailand in a tour from his hometown, a second tier city. I was not in Bangkok at the time so I asked my thai friend to arrange the dinner on my behalf. Boy was I surprised to learn that 30 people were attending. Seems the Chinese regard extended families as close ties too.. and they all travel as a pack. Friends told me that Chinese travel agency arrange overseas tour with the village headman ( mayor if bigger town)  and the entire tour can consists of relatives who numbered in their hundreds if not thousands..  they even charter a 500 seater plane for a single tour. That is why you see convoy of 10 buses or more of Chinese tourists around pattaya area.

[asean]

On 9/29/2018 at 6:33 PM, LivinLOS said:

It all comes down to badly written blanket laws, often sponsored and for the benefit of large players only.. With poor or zero enforcement creating entire industries which are not legal.. A topic this country seems to excel at. 

 

The blanket law is, all short term accommodation must be in a registered hotel. The on the ground reality is that all homestays (something the TAT themselves promote) are then illegal, most guesthouses and budget rooms, something the country is known for and has for decades relied on for budget / backpacker growth, are illegal. Resorts on islands and places country wide are illegal. The solution is then not to make a working law, but to just ignore the law. 

Thailand is a country of wide ranging laws and grand statements, never or randomly applied. Sort the laws out and actually create working legislation first, then apply that clearly and consistently.. Ohh sorry forgot where I was talking about. 

Excellent reply. Aboslutely. All ABNB has done is facilitated the homestay business. (as long as it is your home)

Edited September 30, 2018 by asean

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

Hotels have nothing to worry about, believe me. Travellers that want or need the guest services offered by 4 or 5 star hotels (e.g. 24 hour room service, swimming pools, business centres, conference facilities, on site restaurants) are always going to go to 4 and 5 star hotels and the management couldn't give a hoot if flashpackers opt to sleep in someone's living room. There is also the mass market from places like China that are never going to send their coach loads to someone's condo.

Edited September 30, 2018 by NilSS

[falangUK]

On 9/29/2018 at 8:43 PM, jrjrjr said:

I am renting 20+ condo in BKK and Pattaya...

1

 

That is really cool! 

How do you manage 20+ ?

Did you buy them all? 

What is the occupancy rate? isn't Pats very quite these days?

 

[sandyf]

On 9/29/2018 at 5:48 PM, blackhorse said:

It's the hosts that are illegal. They should be punching in 30 days minimum.. Nothing to do with air bnb the company

This is the biggest problem, people spreading false information.

It has nothing to do with 30 days, the law is based on the number of rooms in the premises. In the case of condos a judge ruled that all rooms in the building should be taken into account, not just what was owned by the host.

[sandyf]

On 9/29/2018 at 4:07 PM, WinnieTheKhwai said:

It would be excellent if tourism diversified into surrounding areas.   Sadly though the author of the article seems to have just made that up, because it's seriously difficult to get guests for a property out of town via AirBnB.   (I know, I've tried.)

Exaggerated maybe but not made up. We recently had a rural Airbnb property near Hua Hin. It was excellent, a cabin with its own swimming pool but own transport was essential. The price was probably a good indication that it was aimed at domestic tourism rather than the foreign market.

[sandyf]

On 9/29/2018 at 8:35 PM, hobz said:

Only one post mentions the real problem with Airbnb. 

The neighbors to Airbnb rentals are going insane by the short term drunk loud obnoxious holiday makers.

In Phuket there's been some protests by condo owners tired of not being able to sleep due to the obnoxious holiday makers..

Tar everyone with the same brush why don't you.

We go away as a family and prefer to stay in inclusive accommodation. Disruptive guests are a local management problem, nothing to do with Airbnb. "obnoxious holiday makers" is a global problem, and hardly confined to Airbnb, learn to deal with it as others have.

This whole saga is being blown out of proportion by angry condo owners. It may come as a surprise to you but there is a lot more to Airbnb than condos in Thailand.

Edited October 1, 2018 by sandyf

[hobz]

11 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Tar everyone with the same brush why don't you.

We go away as a family and prefer to stay in inclusive accommodation. Disruptive guests are a local management problem, nothing to do with Airbnb. "obnoxious holiday makers" is a global problem, and hardly confined to Airbnb, learn to deal with it as others have.

This whole saga is being blown out of proportion by angry condo owners. It may come as a surprise to you but there is a lot more to Airbnb than condos in Thailand.

I had Airbnb host as neighbor before. Never had problems 

[sandyf]

44 minutes ago, hobz said:

I had Airbnb host as neighbor before. Never had problems 

So why make ill informed posts?

[Thailand]

I doubt if 5% of AirBNB /Booking/ Agoda etc type of home/apartment rentals are operating legally including the foreign operators who in many cases are also illegally operating without correct visas, no wonder legal operations are pissed off.

There is no control/ checks whatsoever by the companies providing the platforms to rent out the properties and the police and immigration seem to not care at all.