Trump calls Kavanaugh allegations 'scary time' for men falsely accused

[webfact]

Trump calls Kavanaugh allegations 'scary time' for men falsely accused

By Richard Cowan and Steve Holland

 

U.S. President Donald Trump talks to reporters on his way to the Marine One helicopter on the South Lawn as he departs for travel to Pennsylvania and Tennessee from the White House in Washington, U.S. October 2, 2018. REUTERS/Leah Millis

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump said on Tuesday allegations of sexual misconduct against his U.S. Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh showed that "it's a very scary time for young men in America" who now may be presumed guilty even when innocent.

 

Five days after an extraordinary Senate hearing watched by millions of people in which a university professor, Christine Blasey Ford, detailed her sexual assault allegation against Kavanaugh, Trump seemed to raise the issue of false accusations against men.

 

The fight over Kavanaugh's nomination to a lifetime job on the top U.S. court comes against the backdrop of the #MeToo movement fighting sexual harassment and assault that has toppled a succession of powerful men.

 

Under pressure from moderate fellow Republicans, Trump on Friday ordered an FBI investigation lasting up to a week into the allegations against his nominee.

 

Trump told reporters on Tuesday he thought the conservative federal appeals court judge would win Senate confirmation once the FBI finishes its investigation.

 

"My whole life, I've heard you're innocent until proven guilty. But now, you're guilty until proven innocent. That is a very, very difficult standard," Trump said outside the White House before leaving on a visit to Philadelphia.

 

"Well, I say that it's a very scary time for young men in America when you can be guilty of something that you may not be guilty of," he added.

 

The nomination has become a politically explosive issue ahead of Nov. 6 elections, when control of Congress is at stake. Some Republicans fear that pushing ahead with confirmation could alienate women voters, while Democrats seek to capitalise.

 

"What's happening here has much more to do than even the appointment of a Supreme Court justice. It really does. You could be somebody that was perfect your entire life, and somebody could accuse you of something. It doesn't necessarily have to be a woman," Trump said.

 

Ford testified last Thursday that Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her in 1982 when they were high school students in Maryland. Kavanaugh denied the accusation, as well as allegations by two other women of sexual misconduct in the 1980s.

 

Senator Jeff Flake, a moderate Republican who could be pivotal in the confirmation vote, raised fresh concerns about the judge's "partisan" tone at the Judiciary Committee hearing.

 

"I was very troubled by the tone of the remarks. ... The interaction with the members was sharp and partisan, and that concerns me," Flake said.

 

"I tell myself, 'You give a little leeway because of what he's been through.' But on the other hand, we can't have this on the court. We simply can't," Flake, who is retiring as a senator in January, told an event in Washington hosted by The Atlantic magazine.

 

Kavanaugh struck an angry and defiant tone at the hearing. He called himself the victim of "a calculated and orchestrated political hit" by Democrats, lashing out at Democratic senators and frequently interrupting them.

 

Flake voted to approve Kavanaugh in the committee's vote on Friday that sent the nomination to the full Senate, but only after he requested that the FBI conduct an investigation of the sexual misconduct allegations. Trump subsequently ordered the investigation.

 

In comments aired on Sunday on CBS's "60 Minutes," Flake said Kavanaugh's nomination would end if the FBI investigation found the nominee had lied in his Senate testimony.

 

"I don't think you should lie to Congress," Trump said on Tuesday. "There have been a lot of people over the last year that have lied to Congress, and to me that would not be acceptable."

 

TIGHT MARGIN

Republicans control the Senate by a 51-49 margin. That means if all the Democrats vote against Kavanaugh, Trump could not afford to have more than one Republican oppose his nominee, with Vice President Mike Pence casting a tie-breaking vote.

 

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said each senator will get a copy of the FBI's report on its investigation.

 

"But here's what we know ... one thing for sure. The Senate will vote on Judge Kavanaugh here, on this floor, this week," McConnell told the chamber.

 

Senator Dianne Feinstein, the Judiciary Committee's top Democrat, said a Friday vote on Kavanaugh would not give senators enough time to evaluate the FBI probe.

 

Flake said the FBI had completed interviews with four people. A lawyer for Kavanaugh's friend Mark Judge said the FBI has finished its interview with him. Ford identified Judge as a witness to the alleged assault. Judge has previously denied any memory of such an incident.

 

A person familiar with the matter said the FBI questioned Deborah Ramirez, who has said Kavanaugh exposed himself to her at a party when both were Yale University students. She was questioned for more than two hours on Sunday and provided the FBI with a list of over 20 possible witnesses, the person said.

 

The FBI will also question Leland Keyser and P.J. Smyth, two people who Ford said were at the gathering of teenagers where Kavanaugh allegedly assaulted her. A third woman who has accused the judge of sexual misconduct in the 1980s, Julie Swetnick, was not on the initial list of witnesses to be interviewed.

 

(Reporting by Richard Cowan and Steve Holland; Additional reporting by Lisa Lambert, David Morgan and Sarah N. Lynch; Writing by Alistair Bell; Editing by Will Dunham)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-10-03

[lovelomsak]

Is that not stating the obvious. 

  I think the sexual assaults and harrassment are playing themselves out they had a good run now lets get real.

  Women have played this card to often for it to mean any thing any more. It has wore  thin the credibility of the accusations. Can only cry wolf so lone and people will quit listening.

 Sexual harrassment is used way to often to destroy men and always it seems for political reasons, not justice.

  In Kavanagh cases it is so obvious a witch hunt with  it is sickening. Teenagers decades ago get real Democrats and start thinking about your country instead of your party.

   

[attrayant]

Krugman gets a bull's-eye with his piece in the NY Times: The Angry White Male Caucus

 

“[Trump’s] jihad against Barack Obama was fueled by envy: Obama was a black man who was also a class act, with all the grace and poise Trump lacks. And Trump couldn’t stand it.

 

Kavanaugh is clearly cut from the same cloth, and not just because he rivals Trump in his propensity for lying about matters great and small."

 

The highly privileged are afraid of losing their privilege to social change.

 

[DM07]

If they are falsely accused...well...what could they do?

Maybe a FBI- investigation?

Oh...well...

[PremiumLane]

2 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

Is that not stating the obvious. 

  I think the sexual assaults and harrassment are playing themselves out they had a good run now lets get real.

  Women have played this card to often for it to mean any thing any more. It has wore  thin the credibility of the accusations. Can only cry wolf so lone and people will quit listening.

 Sexual harrassment is used way to often to destroy men and always it seems for political reasons, not justice.

  In Kavanagh cases it is so obvious a witch hunt with  it is sickening. Teenagers decades ago get real Democrats and start thinking about your country instead of your party.

   

what women have played this card so often, citations and numbers please.

 

 

 

[helpisgood]

5 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

Is that not stating the obvious. 

  I think the sexual assaults and harrassment are playing themselves out they had a good run now lets get real.

  Women have played this card to often for it to mean any thing any more. It has wore  thin the credibility of the accusations. Can only cry wolf so lone and people will quit listening.

 Sexual harrassment is used way to often to destroy men and always it seems for political reasons, not justice.

  In Kavanagh cases it is so obvious a witch hunt with  it is sickening. Teenagers decades ago get real Democrats and start thinking about your country instead of your party.

   

 

I'm sure that some people are falsely accused, but that's also true of other crimes and offensive behavior.  

 

However, and I think this is easily found all over the Internet, that many sexual assaults and rapes go unreported.  I think one source said that it is the most unreported of crimes in the world.  I hope we are not conflating a possible uptick, however modest, in the reporting of such crimes with stating that false accusations are a common practice.

Edited October 3, 2018 by helpisgood
clarify a point

[Ulic]

While Trump is correct that it is scary to be falsely accused, in this case, I believe Kavanaugh is guilty of a drunken sexual assault. His memory may be hazy, but that does not make him a falsely accused man.

[MikeChm]

Guilty until proven innocent, is Democrats' own version of Shariah law

[alanrchase]

3 minutes ago, MikeChm said:

Guilty until proven innocent, is Demon Rats' own version of Shariah law

I don't remember the chant at Trump rallies being "Investigate Hillary. If there is sufficient evidence have a trial. If she is found guilty lock her up".

[mikebike]

34 minutes ago, helpisgood said:

I'm sure that some people are falsely accused, but that's also true of other crimes and offensive behavior.  

The number of proven false sexual assault claims is around 2%.

 

Yep that is 2%. 

[BobBKK]

39 minutes ago, Ulic said:

While Trump is correct that it is scary to be falsely accused, in this case, I believe Kavanaugh is guilty of a drunken sexual assault. His memory may be hazy, but that does not make him a falsely accused man.

 

'You believe' means what?  no date, no time, don't know how she got there, don't know how she left but 'beach friends' told her to pursue it. Give me a break.  

[BobBKK]

16 minutes ago, mikebike said:

The number of proven false sexual assault claims is around 2%.

 

Yep that is 2%. 

 

That's within the legal system and you seek to deflect. This would not get past ANY prosecutor and it didn't get past the lady asking the questions and it won't get past the FBI.

 

Yep that's outside of that stat alright.

[canuckamuck]

Ford's own witnesses refute her allegations and all of her timelines are vague and often contradictory. She contradicted herself in statements and lied about the reason for the second front door in her house. She can't remember when or where the alleged event occurred, or how she got there, or how she got home. Body language analysts say she is lying and acting through most of her testimony.

Yet most of the posters here are convinced Kavanaugh is guilty. Based on the fact that he is Trump's pick.

Because there hasn't been a shred of evidence or corroboration. 

[phantomfiddler]

Tragically it all boils down to plausibility. Some people can lie effortlessly, knowing that they will be believed, while others may tell the truth and to no avail !

[weegee]

49 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Ford's own witnesses refute her allegations and all of her timelines are vague and often contradictory. She contradicted herself in statements and lied about the reason for the second front door in her house. She can't remember when or where the alleged event occurred, or how she got there, or how she got home. Body language analysts say she is lying and acting through most of her testimony.

Yet most of the posters here are convinced Kavanaugh is guilty. Based on the fact that he is Trump's pick.

Because there hasn't been a shred of evidence or corroboration. 

I watched the proceedings live on TV here and I have to agree (whether right or wrong), She did look like she was putting on an act to me... 

[guest879]

he said she said about something that happened decades ago. this was BS from the get go and just stupid stalling in the hope of dragging it out till after the mid terms.  fords credibility is shot after she was afraid to fly to DC to give evidence. turns out she is a regular flyer. she stands to make a load of cash off some crowd funding drive (so does Kavanaugh) whole affair is stupid. America is turning into a clown show.

[wombat]

What Germaine Greere started has finally shown its true colours. the total subjugation of males.

 

[wabothai]

57 minutes ago, weegee said:

I watched the proceedings live on TV here and I have to agree (whether right or wrong), She did look like she was putting on an act to me... 

Agreed. Full of drama Hollywood style.

[chokrai]

Looks likes Fords lies are all coming out now. 

[chokrai]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/christine-blasey-ford-ex-boyfriend-says-she-helped-friend-prep-for-potential-polygraph-grassley-sounds-alarm

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, helpisgood said:

 

I'm sure that some people are falsely accused, but that's also true of other crimes and offensive behavior.  

 

However, and I think this is easily found all over the Internet, that many sexual assaults and rapes go unreported.  I think one source said that it is the most unreported of crimes in the world.  I hope we are not conflating a possible uptick, however modest, in the reporting of such crimes with stating that false accusations are a common practice.

 

The phenomenon that has been growing recently is the assumption that allegations of sexual misconduct and crimes are proven automatically as soon as they're made; even when made many years after they happened.

 

The principle of innocent until proven guilty is being compromised by trial by social media and irresponsible journalism which can provoke a mob justice mentality.

 

This has nothing to do with encouraging and facilitating people to report sex crimes and ensuring the investigations are handled professionally and sensibly.

 

But in some countries the social stigma of reporting rape and other sex crimes is a great deterrent; some countries charge the victim with having sex outside wedlock; and in some families will punish the victim themselves to restore loss of face. It is these social issues that should be focused on, to ensure victims can report, investigations can be made and the guilty charged and brought to court.

 

 

[johnnybangkok]

10 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

Is that not stating the obvious. 

  I think the sexual assaults and harrassment are playing themselves out they had a good run now lets get real.

  Women have played this card to often for it to mean any thing any more. It has wore  thin the credibility of the accusations. Can only cry wolf so lone and people will quit listening.

 Sexual harrassment is used way to often to destroy men and always it seems for political reasons, not justice.

  In Kavanagh cases it is so obvious a witch hunt with  it is sickening. Teenagers decades ago get real Democrats and start thinking about your country instead of your party.

   

 

Can you please show us on this doll where the nasty woman touched you?

[Tug]

That’s our Donald devide devide devide soon no one will agree about anything just keep in mind dr Ford has everything to lose and cavanuh has everything to gain 99% of women don’t throw thease accusations around lightly don’t let that orange joke of a president devide us respect the women and protect yourselves 

[chokrai]

16 minutes ago, Tug said:

That’s our Donald devide devide devide soon no one will agree about anything just keep in mind dr Ford has everything to lose and cavanuh has everything to gain 99% of women don’t throw thease accusations around lightly don’t let that orange joke of a president devide us respect the women and protect yourselves 

That is just silly.

 

[Redline]

5 hours ago, MikeChm said:

Guilty until proven innocent, is Democrats' own version of Shariah law

Any other Fox quotes you would like to share ????

[helpisgood]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The phenomenon that has been growing recently is the assumption that allegations of sexual misconduct and crimes are proven automatically as soon as they're made; even when made many years after they happened.

 

The principle of innocent until proven guilty is being compromised by trial by social media and irresponsible journalism which can provoke a mob justice mentality.

 

This has nothing to do with encouraging and facilitating people to report sex crimes and ensuring the investigations are handled professionally and sensibly.

 

But in some countries the social stigma of reporting rape and other sex crimes is a great deterrent; some countries charge the victim with having sex outside wedlock; and in some families will punish the victim themselves to restore loss of face. It is these social issues that should be focused on, to ensure victims can report, investigations can be made and the guilty charged and brought to court.

 

 

 

Nicely written post.

 

Your first two paragraphs, although interesting, are not addressing the point I had made.  Sure, it is easier to smear people with social media, etc.  However, that does not contradict my point, which is a word of caution.    

 

You seem like a well-meaning person, and I also like Max Baer.  So, I am thinking that maybe you have read too much into my post.  My mere point was that simply because more women may be reporting sexual assaults that does not necessarily mean that false accusations are commonplace.  Thus, we should be careful not to be dismissive of a woman's allegations merely because others may exploit it for their own purposes through social media, the press, etc.  Reread the last sentence in my post, and you will see that's what I mean.  

 

Your last paragraph was excellent! 

Edited October 3, 2018 by helpisgood
spelling

[utalkin2me]

Poor priveleged white men. I do feel so so sorry for them. 

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts and replies removed.

 

[joecoolfrog]

Trumps comments very likely will swing the votes of the senators from Maine and Arizona. They will also guarantee that any swing voting females will now declare for the dems in the upcoming mid term elections.

Is he so deluded and arrogant as to think his base support alone will save him , or is it just the case that he is incapable of keeping his mouth shut ?

[utalkin2me]

8 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Ford's own witnesses refute her allegations and all of her timelines are vague and often contradictory. She contradicted herself in statements and lied about the reason for the second front door in her house. She can't remember when or where the alleged event occurred, or how she got there, or how she got home. Body language analysts say she is lying and acting through most of her testimony.

Yet most of the posters here are convinced Kavanaugh is guilty. Based on the fact that he is Trump's pick.

Because there hasn't been a shred of evidence or corroboration. 

Can you answer why Ford wanted an FBI investigation, and kav did not?

 

Ford is a Phd. She obviously isn't someone who is trying to take a quick path to get some attention. She has proven with her career she is willing to put in actual work to achieve life goals. She does not have anhistory of unstable behavior. Her testimony was incredibly convincing, even to Trump ironically. You have to answer for yourself why she would all the sudden male her life a train wreck fiasco, and all for nothing. And then take and pass a polygraph. 

 

Once you start putting the pieces all together, what is left is a man accused of a violent sex crime while plastered drunk, perhaps on the verge of a blackout. And what do we have in Kavenaugh? A man who loved to get plastered, and who seems to have some anger issues, and problems with respecting others even at the highest levels when he is 100% sober. A man who is, at this point, known to lie even while under oath. And, who is known to get extremely uncomfortable when asked about black out experiences he may have had as a youth. 

 

As I have stated, this is a mess because opinions aren't formed in a vacuum. Everyone is politically biased, kinda like climate change. I truly believe if everyone was able to analyze this entire case and watch the testimony without any biases, about 80% of the population would think he did this. And they would probably be correct. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by utalkin2me