Saint Barack lectures black men

[rooster59]

Mexico defence chief says legalising opium 'way out' of violence

 

FILE PHOTO: Mexico's Defense Minister General Salvador Cienfuegos, attends the 50th anniversary of the Plan of Assistance to the Population in case of Disaster (Plan DN-III-E) in Mexico City, Mexico July 12, 2017. REUTERS/Carlos Jasso

 

ACAPULCO, Mexico (Reuters) - Mexico's defence minister said on Friday legalising opium for medicinal use could contain violence caused by drug gangs fighting over poppy fields and trafficking routes in the country's southwest.

 

Defence Minister General Salvador Cienfuegos spoke to reporters during a visit to the town of Teloloapan in the crime-ridden state of Guerrero, where much of the heroin trafficked to the United States is produced.

 

Legalization "is already on the table. I think it can be a way out of the problem," Cienfuegos said when asked about violence in the state and proposals to regulate opium production.

 

Olga Sanchez, the designated interior minister of President-elect Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, has said the next administration will explore regulating opium production for pharmaceutical use.

 

Guerrero's governor has backed the idea and state lawmakers sent a draft bill to the federal congress in August.

 

"But it is a subject that will have to be debated. In principle, it seems to me that it is correct," Cienfuegos said.

 

He expressed worries about how to guarantee the safety of farmers if they stop selling drugs to gangs and start providing opium to the government in order to produce morphine.

 

Leftist Lopez Obrador, who won July's election by a landslide and takes office on Dec. 1, is proposing major changes to the drug war strategy. He has suggested a negotiated peace and amnesty for non-violent drug dealers, traffickers and farmers.

 

Lopez Obrador is expected to name a new defence minister to replace Cienfuegos soon.

 

Mexico has been mired for nearly 12 years in a bloody, military-led battle against drug gangs. Cartels have fragmented into warring groups and murders have risen to record levels.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-10-06

[Vacuum]

18 minutes ago, car720 said:

could be something in this.  I wonder what Holmes would think?

 

John?

[nodomino]

54 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

 

John?

Yes....he thinks BIG!

[farcanell]

????????????

Is this a part of the USMCA deal?

[Sir Dude]

There is no simple way out of the violence in Mexico as it is a failed state. They are all way beyond the pale and the government is not in control. The only solution to it all would not be palatable to the left screamers...and it desperately needs a solution that might not be able to be swallowed by all. Really, they need to swamp the cities with zero tolerance and just shoot anyone who resists...anything short of this will not work as it's a lost/fail country. 

[Srikcir]

DEA will go berserk.

They've been against legalizing marijuana in the US even for medical purposes. US AG Sessions instructed all United States attorneys to treat cannabis-related activities like any suspected crime, instead of making them a low priority if they comply with state laws.

I wouldn't be surprised if POTUS declared it national security issue if Mexico did any legalization of opium and threaten to impose additional tariffs against Mexico or terminate USMCA agreement with Mexico.

[Cadbury]

6 minutes ago, Sir Dude said:

There is no simple way out of the violence in Mexico as it is a failed state. 

Mexico still lives in the days of Pancho Villa. I doubt it will ever emerge from that era.

[Destiny1990]

Mexican heroin at the supermarket.

[Guest]

Legalising all the drugs, like Portugal did, would probably do more good than bad for Mexico. It would take the power away from the cartels and probably lessen violence.

 

Cartels would be able to concentrate to get the stuff over the border to USA. This would naturally be a bad thing for USA, but as long as Mexico doesn't pay to build that border wall, the problem would be transferred to USA side. 

[Credo]

Hmmmm...I'll have to check on getting a long term visa!   

 

I suspect Mexico may pay for the Wall; to keep those pesky northerners out!

 

[bristolboy]

12 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

There is no simple way out of the violence in Mexico as it is a failed state. They are all way beyond the pale and the government is not in control. The only solution to it all would not be palatable to the left screamers...and it desperately needs a solution that might not be able to be swallowed by all. Really, they need to swamp the cities with zero tolerance and just shoot anyone who resists...anything short of this will not work as it's a lost/fail country. 

Because it's been a big success in the Phillipines?

Anybody with any knowledge of this knows that the police and political establishment use such practices as an excuse to execute anyone who opposes them for any reason. In fact, in such countries where this is possible usually the police and military are already heavily corrupted and involved in the drugs trade. So the only way to solve the problem is to make the stuff legal and take away the huge amounts of money such trade generates.

[Time Traveller]

8 hours ago, oilinki said:

Legalising all the drugs, like Portugal did, would probably do more good than bad for Mexico. It would take the power away from the cartels and probably lessen violence.

 

Cartels would be able to concentrate to get the stuff over the border to USA. This would naturally be a bad thing for USA, but as long as Mexico doesn't pay to build that border wall, the problem would be transferred to USA side. 

Interesting theory, but

1. Why would the violence be any less because it's legal? The killings are mostly rival gangs fighting for market share, or to protect their own turf. 

2. While legalized these might be a good thing, the problem when it's legal is that governments like to tax things. Especially things that are addictive and cause major social damage. If the taxes are too high, then underground black markets develop again controlled by organized crime.

 

 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

Interesting theory, but

1. Why would the violence be any less because it's legal? The killings are mostly rival gangs fighting for market share, or to protect their own turf. 

2. While legalized these might be a good thing, the problem when it's legal is that governments like to tax things. Especially things that are addictive and cause major social damage. If the taxes are too high, then underground black markets develop again controlled by organized crime.

I don't know but possibly legalisation would turn the cartels in to similar business as breweries are. When the illegality is removed from the drugs, they might want to turn into legal businesses, so that they don't have to be afraid of the police anymore. They could even pay taxes for the profits they make?

[bristolboy]

38 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

Interesting theory, but

1. Why would the violence be any less because it's legal? The killings are mostly rival gangs fighting for market share, or to protect their own turf. 

2. While legalized these might be a good thing, the problem when it's legal is that governments like to tax things. Especially things that are addictive and cause major social damage. If the taxes are too high, then underground black markets develop again controlled by organized crime.

 

 

1. Why would the violence be any less because it's legal?

Because it's LEGAL! The high cost of drugs isn't because they're expensive to make. It's because of the risks involved, like killings and the payoffs to be made. And that's because they're illegal. There's already plenty of real world evidence about what happens when drugs are decriminalized. Doesn't bear out what you contend in the least. 

And those taxes would have to be massively more than anything that's currently the case to make drugs as expensive as they are when they're illegal.

[Small Joke]

2 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

Interesting theory, but

1. Why would the violence be any less because it's legal? The killings are mostly rival gangs fighting for market share, or to protect their own turf. 

2. While legalized these might be a good thing, the problem when it's legal is that governments like to tax things. Especially things that are addictive and cause major social damage. If the taxes are too high, then underground black markets develop again controlled by organized crime.

 

 

 

What needs to happen is for the state to be rebuilt at this point, as someone else observed. But prohibition breeds crime. So it must end. The objection to drugs is mostly moral "my-brothers-keeper" bullshit. The harms are self evidently vastly exaggerated.

Look at the tonnes being seized, so where are all the so called junkies or other casualties  in comparable numbers? They don't exist because most people manage their drugs the way they manage their booze. 

Prohibition is is the cause of most drug tragedies, and this is proven by the recent moonshine alcohol deaths in Malaysia and and Bangladesh. Correctly measured clean doses of any recreational simply don't kill the majority of users. Another self evident fact. 

 

 

[pegman]

3 hours ago, oilinki said:

I don't know but possibly legalisation would turn the cartels in to similar business as breweries are. When the illegality is removed from the drugs, they might want to turn into legal businesses, so that they don't have to be afraid of the police anymore. They could even pay taxes for the profits they make?

That's what happened with the Bronfmans and Kennedys when prohibition was ended.

[Kiwiken]

16 hours ago, Srikcir said:

DEA will go berserk.

They've been against legalizing marijuana in the US even for medical purposes. US AG Sessions instructed all United States attorneys to treat cannabis-related activities like any suspected crime, instead of making them a low priority if they comply with state laws.

I wouldn't be surprised if POTUS declared it national security issue if Mexico did any legalization of opium and threaten to impose additional tariffs against Mexico or terminate USMCA agreement with Mexico.

They are better of Decriminalising all drugs as Portugal did 15 years ago. Go after the kingpins and not the bottom feeders

 

[bristolboy]

40 minutes ago, Kiwiken said:

They are better of Decriminalising all drugs as Portugal did 15 years ago. Go after the kingpins and not the bottom feeders

 

Don't go after anybody. Just decriminalize it.

[Basil B]

On 10/6/2018 at 6:16 PM, oilinki said:

Legalising all the drugs, like Portugal did, would probably do more good than bad for Mexico. It would take the power away from the cartels and probably lessen violence.

 

Cartels would be able to concentrate to get the stuff over the border to USA. This would naturally be a bad thing for USA, but as long as Mexico doesn't pay to build that border wall, the problem would be transferred to USA side. 

Could reduce the population as well...

[Berkshire]

Prohibition has never worked, whether alcohol or pot.  As for opium, heck, the USA has got a massive opioid problem right now, even though it's illegal.  Making it legal would get the gang violence out of the equation and enable better treatment for addiction.  Of course, this makes too much sense...which means our governments would never do it. 

[Srikcir]

2 hours ago, Berkshire said:

he USA has got a massive opioid problem right now, even though it's illegal.

Aren't opioids legal through prescriptions?

Beginning in the mid-1990s, pills based on oxycodone and the similar compound hydrocodone began being branded and aggressively marketed for chronic pain.

“In 2015, the amount of opioids prescribed in the US was enough for every American to be medicated around the clock for three weeks,”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/25/americas-opioid-crisis-how-prescription-drugs-sparked-a-national-trauma

Not quite a complete prohibition.

[Berkshire]

14 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Aren't opioids legal through prescriptions?

Beginning in the mid-1990s, pills based on oxycodone and the similar compound hydrocodone began being branded and aggressively marketed for chronic pain.

“In 2015, the amount of opioids prescribed in the US was enough for every American to be medicated around the clock for three weeks,”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/25/americas-opioid-crisis-how-prescription-drugs-sparked-a-national-trauma

Not quite a complete prohibition.

Good point.  I was of the impression that the majority of opioid addiction problems were of the illegal kind...but I could be mistaken. 

[MaxYakov]

"Lopez Obrador is expected to name a new defence minister to replace Cienfuegos soon."

 

Sounds like the best idea to me.