BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[Cricky]

21 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

the British Embassy Bangkok will no longer be providing British Nationals with letters confirming their income.

It’s about bloody time, it should filter out all the dead wood (all the lousy miserable B@st@rds) and the legitimate ones will have to sell some of their assets back home to fund their retirement in Thailand.

 

I heard on the radio (local station here in Pattaya 103fm) this morning the presenter referred to it (800,000 baht) as DEAD money - What stupid reference.

 

It is a clever move by the Thai authority, I have notice over the years the 800,000 baht is quickly spent over the next few months after the extension is issued, the funds being in a Thai bank account are easily accessible, I often spend on unnecessary items as others will do also.

[simoh1490]

10 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

Not really. As I stated before, nowadays it's almost impossible for an Embassy to verify an income amount. All you can do is estimate, or verify last year's Taxable income per your tax return. For many people their Income (the one that thailand want verified) depends upon investment returns from retirement funds or other investments which vary month on month. 

What the Thai immigration are asking is just impossible in practice, so the British Embassy called their bluff and will stop this stupidity. Good that they are taking a stand.

 

What not really! The article says what it says for gods sake!!

[Time Traveller]

1 hour ago, 8OA8 said:

Well I guess that's as good a reason as any for wanting to crack down on the shuffling of the same funds being used to accommodate those three guys. 

The reason for my asking my question re Transferwise is the first time I pitched up at Chaeng Wattana with my Baht 800k seasoned funds, the officer asked me to show the evidence that these funds had originated outside Thailand. The same officer also requested that I bring along all my passports that had Thai visa's in them. I pitched up the next day with eight passports and the letter from Kasikorn bank declaring the funds were within a transfer from UK received some time earlier. The passports received a cursory glance as all the visa's had been issued from the BOI One Stop shop.

But for me on that occasion there was definitely a requirement for me to show those funds originated from overseas, which fortunately for me they had.

That's BS, there is no such requirement that funds originated outside of Thailand. The officer you spoke to was making up their own rules. I've always used money that originated in Thailand (investment income) as the deposit. However, if they question you on the source then you should be able show them where it came from.  

[Time Traveller]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

What not really! The article says what it says for gods sake!!

....and the British Embassy is saying what immigration are asking is impossible to do. So the fault is entirely that of the Thai Immigration's demands.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Time Traveller

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[anon537687643]

If I'm not mistaken these new regulations make your Thai bankbook the primary document. No 800K, 3 months before extension application.....no visa extension. If you go the 65K per month route , the bottom lime is you'll need to show 800k , 3months before.
Isn't it as simple as that?
Doesn't this make all this discussion of income letters etc totally immaterial.

Clearly u don’t understand ! Someone can have 65k a month of soon and not have or want 800k in a thai bank and get retirement extension



Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Derek B]

21 hours ago, colinneil said:

British embassy are a total waste of space.

 

I tend to agree from past experiences. GOV.UK and Home Office in particular are too bogged down in bureaucracy of their own making. Most embassies do have a mission statement but they remain self serving departments at heart.

I got robbed in Egypt in 1981 ran out of cash but still had my passport - UK Embassy just said to contact a family member to wire out funds - in 1981 that was not so readily achievable.

Last year I tried to get local Thai gf a visitor visa (ha ha ha) and did not use an agency to write a long winded fake account of our relationship. Upon receipt of application we received an outright rejection stating what I had offered as support etc etc was highly unprobable and that our cohabitation as per my amended condo agreement looked falsified which it did but was not. The point being any uncertainty on this and several other issues was not followed up with a single email or phone call there was simply not the will to validate the detail in the application. I think there are guidelines issued to BKK Embassy examining officers which have not been made public - a hidden agenda so to speak.

 

A bit off point - As with most things relating to membership of the EU after all these years there remains no common approach to Embassy/Consulate assistance. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Derek B
bold text removed.

[poohy]

2 hours ago, roath said:

 

The money is meant to be in your account for 3 months according to the rules, so if there is a crackdown, that is likely to be on their radar unless the intention is to push more people towards that approach (i.e. paying agents, who in turn 'facilitate' the visa) although saying that, that would be against the grain of current campaign against corruption in immigration and the statements made by Prayuth last week

 

I personally think it will increase agents participation

Now at my main immigration office seemingly more business is conducted outside ( in full veiw of senior officials)as agents get folks to sign paperwork prior to going inside for the stamp and picture.

 

of course immigration officers love it much less work and more money

[lamyai3]

8 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

NOT MY POST. THE original post to which we are replying here.

Worth bearing in mind that this information was provided by the UK embassy, who get £52 for these residency letters. I agree though, a lot of banks are insisting on it now (Bangkok Bank for example) though there are still some exceptions. 

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

....and the British Embassy is saying what they are asking is impossible to do. So the fault is entirely that of the Thai Immigration's demands.

It is not impossible for the Embassy to derive a system that provides the level of assurance that is required, one that puts the liability back onto the requestor and is charged accordingly...this is not a bean-counting exam, it's about providing a level of certainty that is reasonable under the circumstances. The UK gov. could easily require the applicant to combine bank statements, tax return data, accountants statements etc  etc to arrive at a product that would be fit for purpose in 9X% of cases and that is all that can be reasonable expected,.

[fforest1]

7 minutes ago, VYCM said:

It’s about bloody time, it should filter out all the dead wood (all the lousy miserable B@st@rds) and the legitimate ones will have to sell some of their assets back home to fund their retirement in Thailand.

 

I heard on the radio (local station here in Pattaya 103fm) this morning the presenter referred to it (800,000 baht) as DEAD money - What stupid reference.

 

It is a clever move by the Thai authority, I have notice over the years the 800,000 baht is quickly spent over the next few months after the extension is issued, the funds being in a Thai bank account are easily accessible, I often spend on unnecessary items as others will do also.

It’s about bloody time, it should filter out all the dead wood (all the lousy miserable B@st@rds)

 

YEA they should raise the 800,000 to 8 million or better yet 80 million and really clear out the dead wood riff-raff.....Boy I sure hope this does not include you....

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

The wife has just spoken with immigration,(kap choeng) they will accept letters of confirmation from embassies, if the UK wont issue them it's up to them

Phew! I'll be there tomorrow morning for my annual pleasure-filled visit.

[jayboy]

2 hours ago, mlmcleod said:

I guess that the Thai government does not really want retirees with a pension.  If the regulations are too onerous, I will move to Panama or Columbia or Ecuador.  The ropes that my wife had to jump through when she was a student here were incredibly onerous.  At least the retirement options are still numerous in other parts of the world and their are still countries that want retirees.

 

I expect that an exodus of Brits will begin sometime next year.  

I don't think there is any discrimination against retired pensioners nor do I think there is any kind of strategy to reduce numbers. The Thai Government - unlike some Latin American countries - has never actively courted foreign pensioners but has over the years reacted to reality putting in place some fairly undemanding financial restrictions. Frankly, the Thai Government has been very generous in its immigration policies though I appreciate it can be frustrating at times. Nevertheless, the reality is there are hundreds of thousands of foreigners happily living in Thailand who would find immigration regimes in other countries much more demanding.

 

Looking ahead I think it must be accepted that Thailand will not be a country where many low-income foreigners (say less than BT 100,000 pm ) would be sensible to settle permanently.I don't see THaiGovernments going out of their way to make life difficult but equally, there wouldn't be much regret if numbers reduced significantly. Part of the picture is that the country is getting much more prosperous.

[kannot]

15 hours ago, Esso49 said:

And what is the problem with an extension based on marriage, surely the way to go if you are married?

 2 extensions back i was told by an IO to change my marriage to an retirement  extension, its  a lot more paperwork for them to do the marriage visa. I smiled and ignored it, last years extension I did the usual marriage extension with nothing said.

[Jonathan Swift]

21 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Ha ha ha!

I see that joke about how how open a bank account in Thailand requires only three items.

They deliberately miss out the details about how you need to visit many banks (often the same bank but different branch) in order to maybe get lucky and be 'allowed' to open a bank account. Each branch makes up its own rules - we all know that from experience.

 

I bet within five years they'll probably completely stop renewing passports too - via outsourcing or other means.

<end of sarcasm mode for those with no sense of humour>

 

You are right about "Bank shopping". Did it myself, I use Bangkok Bank at the Paragon mall in Siam Square. 

[crazykopite]

43 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

From what I recall from threads a few years ago it seems that Immigration figured out that the British Embassy was not asking to see evidence of pension and simply allowed pensioners to make a statory declaration of their pension income. Then they asked to see a pension letter. I guess that Immigration has now pressured them to certify that the pension really exists, rather than certify that the pensioner has declared it exists. HMG will not do this. So I guess the embassy has thrown in the towel and all the others, save perhaps the North Korean and Nigerian Embassies that still need the income will follow suit.

 

In recent years the British Consular Service has narrowed down the list of things it will certify from anything that looked reasonable to a few clearly defined items. Soon it will be down to certified copies of passports that it will probably outsource ask you wait 3 weeks for and return courier fees for.

I can assure you that when I last requested a BE letter of income confirmation 3 years ago they insisted on actual proof of all income I had to submit my HMRC documents , P60s as well as other parafinalia. Having in my past life been assigned to the BE in Washington DC for a few years I can tell you there has always been severe pressure to reduce Embassy running costs reduce staffing numbers and so on. I would not be surprised if having already sold the BE in Bangkok they are having to reduce vast numbers of employees and reduce the workload and I would imagine this could well be the reason for not providing any more income letters . 

[JackThompson]

15 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

1 hour ago, 8OA8 said:

Well I guess that's as good a reason as any for wanting to crack down on the shuffling of the same funds being used to accommodate those three guys. 

The reason for my asking my question re Transferwise is the first time I pitched up at Chaeng Wattana with my Baht 800k seasoned funds, the officer asked me to show the evidence that these funds had originated outside Thailand. The same officer also requested that I bring along all my passports that had Thai visa's in them. I pitched up the next day with eight passports and the letter from Kasikorn bank declaring the funds were within a transfer from UK received some time earlier. The passports received a cursory glance as all the visa's had been issued from the BOI One Stop shop.

But for me on that occasion there was definitely a requirement for me to show those funds originated from overseas, which fortunately for me they had.

That's BS, there is no such requirement that funds originated outside of Thailand. The officer you spoke to was making up their own rules. I've always used money that originated in Thailand (investment income) as the deposit. However, if they question you on the source then you should be able show them where it came from.  

This sounds like the initial Non-O stamp process, for which the money-source must be abroad.  But one can just go get a Non-O Visa from Laos or Malaysia, instead, in which case the money does not even have to be in Thailand.  Go figure.

[DJ54]

21 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I’m going to the US Consulate next week to get my Income Affidavit.  Of course the US never certifies anything(it is just an Affirmation Under Oath). I will ask if the US Consulate has plans to terminate this sevice?  In my case the 800K deposit is a no-go and direct depositing my pension into any Foreign Banks is also a no-go.  Maybe my time in LOS is coming to end soon?  

Might want to wait until the US Consulate announces it. If they’ve been advised of changes coming the will let you know when your get your income affidavit.

 

Maybe USA and UK arrangements for income verification with Thai Immigration is different policy. 

 

Best not to wake sleeping dogs. 

[Derek B]

21 hours ago, bluesofa said:

They deliberately miss out the details about how you need to visit many banks (often the same bank but different branch) in order to maybe get lucky and be 'allowed' to open a bank account. Each branch makes up its own rules - we all know that from experience.

Totally agree.

[joebrown]

I wonder whether I could withdraw from my UK bank a/c 40, 000bht each month (2 x 20,000bht) at a Thai ATM, and then deposit into a Thai bank a/c. The source of the funds is legit and probably costs less than the 2 transfers direct (bank to Bank)?

[balo]

3 hours ago, swifty5x5 said:

I just went to get my new visa and for a fee the agent put the money in my account went to immigration did our thing and took the money back out. No problem

Good for you , but that solution might not work next year if Big Joke get his will. 

[lamyai3]

3 hours ago, Rally123 said:

You misunderstood. It is wrong that a letter from an embassy lasts for 6 months whereas a letter from my bank lasts one day. That is wrong. 

Both are sampling a three month period. With the embassy letter a minimum of three months income is required to be shown to obtain the document - given that it's a sample it's arbitrary whether that income is immediately prior to the extension or some other three month period earlier. 

[crazykopite]

In my past life I was posted to the BE in Washington DC even in those days there was always severe pressure on running costs , stringent budgets and local employment issues , these embassy’s take their orders from the Government of the day and if they are told to reduce costs then so be it . Recent.y the BE in Bangkok was sold for vast amount of money and will be relocating to a much smaller embassy which in turn will require far less staf to run it and with this in mind issuing the likes of “ Income supporting Letters will help reduce staff levels I don’t believe that it is the decision of the Thai immigration but purely a BE decision to reduce costs .

[balo]

Think about all the empty condos , and lost business . 

The old retired pensioner has to move out , he can afford a life here but not 800k in the bank.  I would think there must be at least 100 000 people who will get in trouble. 

 

So it will affect the Thai people and the economy , if you live on a small pension , lets say 50k per month , you can still live a decent life in Thailand. 

 

[Joe Mcseismic]

3 hours ago, roath said:

Correct

The current requirement (as promulgated) is simply for income of 65K. No mention (to date) of a requirement for funds being transferred to Thailand (which isn't then proof of income, but something else entirely)

 

All the people calling everyone else stupid don't seem to appreciate that they are the ones showing themselves up as lacking some basic comprehension skills

 

 

A bit of common sense is needed here. Immigration want to see 800k seasoned in a Thai bank account for three months. I would say that they want to see 65k a month in a Thai bank account, too. What would be the point of showing Thai immigration this money in a foreign bank account? They want to see that you are spending this in Thailand. That's the whole point. What you have outside of Thailand doesn't concern them.

[wgdanson]

40 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

British income letter isnt a Statutory declaration, its a consulate written consulate signed letter, different to Australia, Canada, US etc. 

And it is not specifically Pension Income included. Any rental income, investment dividends, bank interest (does that exist anymore) etc can be included in the paperwork you send to Brit Consulate.

[Cricky]

5 minutes ago, balo said:

Think about all the empty condos , and lost business . 

The old retired pensioner has to move out , he can afford a life here but not 800k in the bank.  I would think there must be at least 100 000 people who will get in trouble. 

 

So it will affect the Thai people and the economy , if you live on a small pension , lets say 50k per month , you can still live a decent life in Thailand. 

 

It’s about bloody time, it should filter out all the dead wood (all the lousy miserable B@st@rds) and the legitimate ones will have to sell some of their assets back home to fund their retirement in Thailand.

 

It is a clever move by the Thai authority, I have notice over the years the 800,000 baht is quickly spent over the next few months after the extension is issued, the funds being in a Thai bank account are easily accessible, I often spend on unnecessary items as others will do also.

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, joebrown said:

I wonder whether I could withdraw from my UK bank a/c 40, 000bht each month (2 x 20,000bht) at a Thai ATM, and then deposit into a Thai bank a/c. The source of the funds is legit and probably costs less than the 2 transfers direct (bank to Bank)?

From my experience British Banks will give you a poor rate of exchange, but I'm not an expert. It's normally better to transfer pounds to a Thai Bank.

[Spidey]

16 hours ago, blackhorse said:

"the change has been sparked by Thai immigration"

 

Then it should have been announced on their website

 

Sparked by British embassy.

 

Yes and no. Thai immigration have informed all embassys that if , after presenting an embassy letter to immigration, it is subsequently found that the information is false, i.e. the supporting documentation supplied to the embassy was fake (fraudulent), then the Thai government will hold that embassy liable to endorsing false information to Thai immigration. As the British Embassy doesn't have the capacity to legally verify every document presented to them as proof of income, and are unwilling to accept liability for false information, then the only practical course of action open to them is to refuse to provide such lettersTherefore, IO will continue to accept these letters but as the British Embassy refuse to accept liability for the information therin, no letters will be provided after January 1st.

[kannot]

13 hours ago, Mark1066 said:

I am prepared but it just occurred to me that such a rule change would be unfair to those with wives who earned enough to support their whole family.

Ah yes but the visa for marriage is  "supporting a  Thai Wife", I dont agree with this if your Wife is rich, but I dont make the dumbass  rules.