BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[Kadilo]

4 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

I would assume 12 months or total up of deposits over the year to amount to 800,000+

My concern is that in the past use of income was only proven by way of the Embassy Letter, with no letter what will Immigration accept as proof, until we know that we cannot move forward and arrange such proof. We need an announcement from the Immigration.  

Yes but for many, like myself, their extensions are due in the next few months so 12 months is not a possibility. 

[alphason]

36 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

No, they are saying transfer the minimum needed to satisfy the Thai Immigration. That will be Bht 65,000 per month ie Bht 780,000 per year. OR you could put Bht 800,000 into an account for at least 3 months. Up to you!

I meant to say 40/65K in the post you quoted.

But not sure that is what they are saying, they need to be clear.

 

15 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

The link shows...

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa.

The Embassy is saying use bank Statements (Thai I assume as proof of depositing the required amount), but its not what the Embassy say that matters.

What does Immigration say is required as proof of the 40/65,000 income if the Embassy letter is no longer effective as proof

Yes this is whats important, what do immigration want for proof of 40/65K per month, at the moment its only the embassy letter that I know of, so is something going to change and they will now accept something different?

[wgdanson]

24 minutes ago, Spidey said:

This hasn't been my experience.

 

I have a single method of transferring monies from my UK account to my Thai account.

 

I have a Halifax Clarity CC which incurs zero foreign charges. Whenever my Thai account is getting low, I go to my local branch of BKK Bank and withdraw the required amount (typically 70k baht) on my CC. 60k is then deposited into my BKK bank account and 10k goes into my wallet. Not only is it free and instant (SWIFT transfer take 3-5 days and costs £9.60) but I get the Visa exchange rate on the day. I've checked this a number of times and found the rate as good as, if not better than TT money exchanges and always beats BKK Bank's rate by a margin. It also has the added advantage that, probably because the BKK Bank uses a chip and pin machine to make the transaction, my UK bank treats this as a purchase rather than a cash withdrawal. Therefore, if I pay the CC balance in a timely manner, I incur no CC charges.

Just opened a First Direct account who will do International Transfers, be it Bht or GBP, for FREE, up to £50,000. Will give it a go and let you know.

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, alphason said:

I meant to say 40/65K in the post you quoted.

But not sure that is what they are saying, they need to be clear.

 

Yes this is whats important, what do immigration want for proof of 40/65K per month, at the moment its only the embassy letter that I know of, so is something going to change and they will now accept something different?

I think Immigration will want a bank statement/book showing a Bht 65,000 deposit FROM ABROAD, (FTT) every month for 12 months. Or the 800 for 3 months.

[Spidey]

Just now, wgdanson said:

The 800k has always been the same, seasoned for 3 months. Nothing to stop you putting that, plus some for 3 month's living, in on say 1st October if your date for extension is in January. Live off some of that money until October when you top it up to 800 again. Or is that too simple please?

Yes it's simple and what I intend to do. ! will need i.r.o. 1 million baht in my Thai bank account 3 months prior to making my visa extension. (800k seeding + 200k living expenses for 3 months). Doable but a pain. Much easier for me to send my P60 + one monthly pension payslip + copies of 3 months bank statements to the British Embassy once per year with £52 and receive a letter. More than enough evidence for the British Embassy to determine that my stated income is genuine.

[Psychic]

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Not much use to those of us who own a house as it has to be in a Thai name or bought through a company, which in my opinion will be the next big crackdown on expats abusing the system.

 

My advice to anyone coming to Thailand to retire would be play wit5h a perfectly straight bat or don't bother.

Yes, the land has to be Thai owned.

I can understand this but a rational policy would be that the property and house would be a communal marital asset.

 

If my Thai wife dies and I am forced to sell the house within a year ( because of course it would be unimaginable to have an elderly widower end his days in his home) I get to keep the proceeds of the sale.

Well, at least for now.

 

Rationality doesn't seem to have much to do with anything. To rent a similar property would eat up a big chunk of the 40K monthly income.

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Yes but for many, like myself, their extensions are due in the next few months so 12 months is not a possibility. 

Apply for your letter now as it's valid for 6 months. My extension is due at Christmas but will be applying for my letter tomorrow as I can see a massive backlog at the British Embassy coming up.

[robertson468]

22 hours ago, mfd101 said:

It's pretty obvious that, whatever it was called and whatever the Thai authorities thought or think (assuming they do), the annual declaration of income could not possibly be verified by ANY embassy even though you produce documents in support. Embassies are not a detective force. All ANY of them have ever done in reality is to witness YOUR signature on some form of affidavit or statutory declaration, with or without some supporting doco.

 

If the Thais NOW want REAL proof of income, then demonstration of funds moving more or less regularly into Thailand will be the only way to do it, I should think. Whether those funds have to touch down in a Thai financial institution is an interesting question. In my case, since my large-scale movement of funds for house building ended 18 months ago, I almost invariably use BKK Bank atms to debit from my Australian accounts for daily living funds. These rarely go into my BKK Bank account - I just take the cash & run. When I'm in BKK, I use Citibank atms so no cash touches down in a Thai institution.

 

But of course, I'm still bringing funds into Thailand & spending them here ...

I must admit that I had wondered for a while how the Embassies certified income for ex-pats.  For me it was little or no problem as my income is all dereived from pensions by the MOD or the Civil Service, so relatively easy to check, although they never asked for my file/account number with the respective income providers. 

 

I must admit that initially I was quite cross at this development and like many considered leaving as I certainly did not relish leaving 400K baht in a bank account with no interest being paid on the deposit (mind you UK banks don't excactly pay very much on deposits either), or doing a Standing Order from my UK Bank to my Thai Bank for 65,000 baht.  Unlike many, I am more forturnate than most in that my Wife has a Thai income and has said, no problem, I will deposit that money in you account monthly and if it is a little bit short, you can do an ATM transfer to top it up to the required amount.  Thankfully, I received my Embassy income letter last week and am off to renew my Visa next week, so have a year to get in to the swing of things, but do sympathise with those who have less options to achieve the new rules.  Good luck everyone!

Edited October 9, 2018 by robertson468

[SooKee]

31 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

The link shows...

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa.

The Embassy is saying use bank Statements (Thai I assume as proof of depositing the required amount), but its not what the Embassy say that matters.

What does Immigration say is required as proof of the 40/65,000 income if the Embassy letter is no longer effective as proof

Indeed, that's what the BE site says. What will be important is what the Thai Immigration site says.  If the BE are correct and statements showing transfers will be accepted (wouldn't be surprised if they have discussed it with Thai Immigration and it's the latter that haven't got round to announcing any changes), all well and good.  If not, the BE site guide as to what needs to be done isn't worth the paper it's not written on.

 

Hopefully Thai Immigration will make it clearer what will be accepted before long.  Trouble is, if this issue is not going to affect all embassies, it wouldn't surprise me if Immigration said the procedures are as per the website.  We still accept embassy letters, if yours won't issue them, you need to use one of the other options.  I'm hoping there is more to the 'x months of records to show 65K + per month' and that it's not just an assumption the BE is making.  Who knows, maybe this isn't BE instigated and maybe it will affect other embassies, in which case I suspect there will be some kind of announcement on what will now be accepted.

 

One problem I see is that using Thai bank statements might be OK for renewals where folks have been transferring in for over 12 months, but what about new applications based on income?

Edited October 9, 2018 by SooKee

[alphason]

3 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

I think Immigration will want a bank statement/book showing a Bht 65,000 deposit FROM ABROAD, (FTT) every month for 12 months. Or the 800 for 3 months.

Many would need more than a few months notice to start doing this in preparation for the next extension. if this is confirmed as the new rule by immigration.

[Expattaff1308]

2 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

I think Immigration will want a bank statement/book showing a Bht 65,000 deposit FROM ABROAD, (FTT) every month for 12 months. Or the 800 for 3 months.

I agree but maybe we shouldn't speculate. Has anyone inquired from Immigration what will be acceptable?

Does it have to be 65,000 every month or when totaled up over 12 mths to 800,000 + making an average of 65,000 over the year. At present I dont always transfer the full 65,000 sometimes it can be more or less depending on the Exchange rate 

[granuaile]

22 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I’m going to the US Consulate next week to get my Income Affidavit.  Of course the US never certifies anything(it is just an Affirmation Under Oath). I will ask if the US Consulate has plans to terminate this sevice?  In my case the 800K deposit is a no-go and direct depositing my pension into any Foreign Banks is also a no-go.  Maybe my time in LOS is coming to end soon?  

Please do. I have this coming up in February. I can produce original statements from my retirement and Social Security, but I'm just can't do the savings and also will not deposit my annuities outside the U.S. I've been considering going on after this year anyway, for a lot of unrelated reasons, this would just be another factor... I did hope to be here for next year.

[Kadilo]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Apply for your letter now as it's valid for 6 months. My extension is due at Christmas but will be applying for my letter tomorrow as I can see a massive backlog at the British Embassy coming up.

Mine is due end March so could possibly  get away with..........if they honour the 6 months.! 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Kadilo

[Thingamabob]

Does the British embassy do anything useful any more ? Seems to me to be a waste of time and money. Might as well close it down.

[xylophone]

6 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

must admit that initially I was quite cross at this development and like many considered leaving as I certainly did not relish leaving 400K baht in a bank account with no interest being paid on the deposit

You can put the funds into a term deposit here for seeding purposes, so do get a little interest.

[SooKee]

The big problem I see IF they are going to accept evidence of bank transfers over the last 12 months to 'prove' the 65K per month using the income option, how will they cater for new applicants wishing to use the income route?  No embassy letter and no 12 month transfer history.  Initially must opt for the 800K deposit then switch type or.......?  Maybe there's a bigger can of worms opening.

Edited October 9, 2018 by SooKee

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Mine is due end March so could possibly  get away with..........if they honour the 6 months.! 

Same with mine, as I said earlier Soalbundys wife rang the IO and they confirmed that they are still accepting letters from Embassies, it is just that the British Embassy that isn't issueing them, so in theory they should honour the letter, but................

[Cricky]

2 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Does the British embassy do anything useful any more ? Seems to me to be a waste of time and money. Might as well close it down.

They have chosen to go down this path for legal reasons. They are protecting themselves, too many British expats are doing the wrong thing, signing false documents etc.

 

Don't blame the embassy.

[yang123]

4 hours ago, roath said:

Several countries are apparently issuing similar guidance, so this issue is not limited to the British Embassy being awkward or cost-cutting (which was the initial reaction)

Please give a source for this.

[Kadilo]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

Same with mine, as I said earlier Soalbundys wife rang the IO and they confirmed that they are still accepting letters from Embassies, it is just that the British Embassy that isn't issueing them, so in theory they should honour the letter, but................

.............we should be able to apply up til the 12th Dec. Watch this space I guess. You would of thought Thai immigration and the BE would of come out with some kind of joint announcement/ guidance to prevent these kind of uncertainties. 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Kadilo

[Expattaff1308]

15 minutes ago, VYCM said:

They have chosen to go down this path for legal reasons. They are protecting themselves, too many British expats are doing the wrong thing, signing false documents etc.

 

Don't blame the embassy.

If Immigration still require an Embassy letter, (but until they make an announcement it still remains speculation) why then doesnt the embassy insist on the bank statements showing the proof of deposit of the 40/65,000 per month or a 12 mth total of 800,000+ showing an average over the year, surely then they could verify the income.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Expattaff1308

[sumrit]

15 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

 

Currently the UK Consulate writes letters "from" the consulate and "signed by" the Consulate, guaranteeing your income. Thats a lot of liability and responsibility, something they no longer want to do. (OP says, we are unable to verify your income)

 

Other countries like Australia, Canada, US etc do not write letters from the consulate or sign them, they do not guarantee your income or have any responsibility, they only witness your signature on a letter you write and sign.

 

If people cant see the difference or understand why the UK consulate is doing this, maybe better to stick with the immigration conspiracy theories.

3

After reading 19 pages on this thread I have read several comments from (apparently) non UK people that are similar to yours.

 

This is simply NOT TRUE.

 

In case you have never actually read the contents of a 'UK Income letter' I have attached the one I received earlier this year.

1. It states what I provided to the Embassy for my ID.

2. It states My Declaration as to where I live (with no proof asked for or given).

3. It states My Declaration as to my monthy income, where that income is from and the documentation I supplied to the Embassy to verify that income.

 

At no point has the British Embassy 'signed to Guarantee my income' in the letter. 

 

The big difference between this letter and one from some other Countries is (as far as I can tell) we have to show some documentation (eg: bank statements) stating what our income is and where it is from. We can't just pick some 'pie in the sky' figure and declare that as our income.

 

Apologies if this has already been stated but I've read 19 pages without any corrections and was less than halfway through.

  

sample embassy letter.pdf

Edited October 9, 2018 by sumrit

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, richiejom said:

I just got my embassy letter last week as well, but they only last 6 months.... and Im getting my marriage extension soon... but they check your documents every 90 days don't they?  so it won't last a year...it will last 6 months into your/my 1 year

They don't check anything every 90 days.

You only do a reports of staying longer than 90 consecutive days in the country if you stay that long.

[Expattaff1308]

1 minute ago, richiejom said:

I don't see how the UK Embassy could be duped with false documents...they surely do their checks, I sent bank statements.

 

I don't know what Thai immigration requested from the Embassy

I sent my State & Pension Providers statements, again I cant see the DWP & Civil Service falsifying docs to satisfy my needs for the Thai Immigration.

[Pattaya46]

28 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

I think Immigration will want a bank statement/book showing a Bht 65,000 deposit FROM ABROAD, (FTT) every month for 12 months. Or the 800 for 3 months.

Why do you want this money to come from ABROAD ?? 

It has never been a requirement and could be a problem for many people if it became the new rule !

A good number of on-retirement expats live here on investments they made in Thailand (condos for rent, bank funds, stock exchange...). They don't need (or have) money coming from abroad.

[theswedishguy]

How hard is it to take a certificate of income and change the amount / date on a computer?  It takes minutes. 

 

Since these papers can’t be checked by Thai authorities, maybe that’s the reason for money in Thai bank?  At least they can check it then?  

 

What I mean: 

when I apply for th visa I have to show bank account with money +400k the for 6 months. Airplane tickets. Rental / own condo papers. A certificate from an employee in my EU country. 

 

Aiplane tickets: just book tickets. Print out and cancel. Th can’t call the airplane company and get the info. 

Money bank: just print out ordinary statement and fix it with enough money on computer. And so on. 

 

Its just for show/ hustle. They can’t check this stuff outside th. 

 

Btw opening th bank account is usually easy if you agree to a 2000thb year card fee. And opening an account is the first thing you always should do if you stay in th. How else do you transfer money from home / here?  Using credit card? With zero fee? But loose 7-15% on lower exchange rate?

 

remember that Thai money is locked in Thailand. That’s why we get great exchange rates for open money. I loose about 1% when transferring foreign money to th. 

 

And the home banks / cc cards loves to con us. If you let your eu bank exchange your money to thb: loose 10%.  You have to get foreign money to th - only loose 1% 

 

and for for people who do not understand. Take 10 dollars and go to your us/eu bank without fees. Exchange it to euro. Then dollar. Then euro. Somehow magically you loose 7-15% each exchange. 

 

Btw is it really that hard to get your pension payed to a foreign bank? In Sweden they had papers ready for it since so many immigrants live in Sweden as refugees and moved home to the country they fired from and get their Swedish pension there. 

 

And the prerson in the tread complaining about th banks.  At least th have real money something that eu/U.K./us don’t have because of fragmented banking.  There’s no value in money in those countries. No gold reservers. USA people would show me a dollar with gurarateed by fed bank. They do not understand that psychical money is less than 3% of all money in the west. It’s all fake. We have been conned.

 

th and majority of non western countries have real /locked money with a real valuation. 

 

(If you do not believe. Check your countries gov bank. Sweden is honest: the valuation of Swedish krona is set by the market.  Just 50 years ago money had real value with gold but then the banks can’t lend out money that do not exist and get interest.  That is what happened in the west. We pay interest on something that does exist and it’s legal. Swedish banks are amounts the best in the world and they are proud of 16% liquidity. Only 84% of their lending out does not exist but generated interest. 

Just this thought experiment USA: the government debt is 20 times higher than all printed money. So. How can the loan be payed back?  And how is money that do not exist lended out?  And this is true for all countries with fragmented banking. The lending is 40 times higher than all money printed. And that is why eu/USA have to print money each year since interest takes money supply out of the system. And when the real money is to little: bank crash like 2008. 2001. 1991. 1983. 1976. Every 10 year since our western governments stole the real value of money and we have fragmented fake money banking / casino stockmarket where you actually do not own anything. It’s the depo that legally owns it. But that’s another story. But almost everything we believe as real in west is in real world fake/sham. 

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, richiejom said:

So if I get an extension of stay for marriage now with my embassy letter I'm good for a year? 

Yes you are.

Not sure where you read the nonsense about something every 90 days.

[alphason]

2 minutes ago, theswedishguy said:

How hard is it to take a certificate of income and change the amount / date on a computer?  It takes minutes. 

 

 

The BE letter has a red embossed stamp on it, don't think you could make a copy of that, probably could submit false documents to get the letter if you were so inclined.

[Joe Mcseismic]

The salient points:-

 

1. The British embassy has said that they are no longer issuing the income letter. Nothing to do with Thai immigration. Their policy hasn't changed.

 

2. If you are not British, you don't have to worry (yet).

 

3. Thai immigration still need a letter from your embassy if you use the 65k per month letter.

 

4. If you are British, the only way is to now show an average of 65k going into your Thai bank account each month. You will then need to get the official stamped letters from your bank. The same ones that the people using the seasoned 800k method has to get.

 

Conclusion - Brits must bring in 780K during a year and have it certified by the bank, or, bring in a lump sum of 800k at least 3 months before the extension.

[SooKee]

Just now, Joe Mcseismic said:

The salient points:-

 

1. The British embassy has said that they are no longer issuing the income letter. Nothing to do with Thai immigration. Their policy hasn't changed.

 

2. If you are not British, you don't have to worry (yet).

 

3. Thai immigration still need a letter from your embassy if you use the 65k per month letter.

 

4. If you are British, the only way is to now show an average of 65k going into your Thai bank account each month. You will then need to get the official stamped letters from your bank. The same ones that the people using the seasoned 800k method has to get.

 

Conclusion - Brits must bring in 780K during a year and have it certified by the bank, or, bring in a lump sum of 800k at least 3 months before the extension.

Correct, EXCEPT Thai Immigration has yet to announce that 4) is acceptable to THEM.  It currently does not feature as a form of proof under the income option IIRC.