"Easy Ride" for pensioners in Thailand now over, says Pattaya Radio

[blackhorse]

That the UK embassy will reverse its decision? That will blow over? Doubtful.

Other embassies have after similar notices on their website

[SheungWan]

3 minutes ago, petermik said:

I admire your optimism....the use of "agents" providing spurious bank accounts to obtain long term visas here has been on the agenda for some time 

What will happen to the agency pathway remains to be seen, but for now is considered a grey alternative to the income certification UK group looking for alternatives.

[mercman24]

its not a case of having the money, its a case of now having 20,000 english pounds in a Thai bank for 3 months, and we hear every week of skimmers, using cloned cards to nick money from unsuspecting people with the banks taking no responsibility for the losses. and everyone having to show 800,00 baht in the bank i dont trust a Thai bank as far as i can spit

[stanleycoin]

All just adds up to more money for the agents

and more money for the corrupt immigration officers. 

WIn Win for Thailand. 

British government showing how much they care about us Ex-pats. 

 

[smedly]

59 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Never had Immigration in either Jomtien or Phitsanulok 'shit' on my application. If you have the correct amount of money, and the correct documentation....no problems. This new rule is has been made because you could tell the Brit Consulate anything you wanted about your gross UK income, and they would issue the signed letter, no questions asked. Now the Thai lot have got wise to this scam and are closing the loophole.

That equally applies to Affidavids 

[SheungWan]

2 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

10 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

That the UK embassy will reverse its decision? That will blow over? Doubtful.

Other embassies have after similar notices on their website

Well fingers crossed, but I am interested to know which embassies have reversed. First I have heard of it.

[Expattaff1308]

17 minutes ago, Spidey said:

 I think that you are confusing Brits with Americans.

 

The British Embassy does not issue these letters in person. Postal applications only. No oath to swear but sufficient documentation to prove your claimed income.

Exactly & I sent my State & Pension Providers statements, again I cant see the DWP & Civil Service falsifying docs to satisfy my needs for the Thai Immigration.

•  

[Doznotdiz]

US Citizens are already being asked for proof and I know of one who couldn’t provide it and is heading home. Now they are targeting the UK, and soon to follow will be Australia and Canada. The UK Embassy is stating that you need to show minimum 65,000 per month coming into a Thai account. I think that Immigration should clarify the situation because not everyone has a Thai account, and these people should be allowed to show proof of income abroad. A shame really because most expats I know live comfortably on half of what they are requiring. We all need to find out what constitutes “proof of income” - here or abroad; how many months required? Some people have rental, dividend, and pension income which would require accumulation and conversion to baht.

[SheungWan]

Just now, mercman24 said:

its not a case of having the money, its a case of now having 20,000 english pounds in a Thai bank for 3 months, and we hear every week of skimmers, using cloned cards to nick money from unsuspecting people with the banks taking no responsibility for the losses. and everyone having to show 800,00 baht in the bank i dont trust a Thai bank as far as i can spit

Well I guess the decision then is either use an agent or return to the UK to get your visa. Or quit.

[Ebumbu]

In the case of the US, the embassy will notarize any statement that you swear to in their presence. For example, "I swear I was born on a small planet in the Andromeda galaxy." They will notarize it. The truthfulness of your statement is on you. 

 

Given the above, why not simply fill out an income affidavit, and swear to the truthfulness of it, much like Americans do? The UK embassy would not be verifying income. They would be notarizing the fact that you swore to the truthfulness of your statement. Worth a shot, no? Would they refuse? 

[blackhorse]

Well fingers crossed, but I am interested to know which embassies have reversed. First I have heard of it.

Ozzie did EXACTLY the same thing last year and then back flipped  

 

 

 

 

[mercman24]

us Brits have to supply 3 months bank statements, i have 5 pensions, i would have thought that is proof enough of ones income. so do you think maybe people are supplying false bank statements

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, Doznotdiz said:

US Citizens are already being asked for proof and I know of one who couldn’t provide it and is heading home.

 

Thus far, there hasn't been any broad policy change affecting Americans here or their Embassy income letters, contrary to what you suggest.

 

There has been some increased enforcement by CM Immigration, with them asking more often for backup proof of the income shown in income affidavits. But, for example, I and others have recently done retirement extensions at BKK Immigration, and income affidavits alone were accepted without question.

 

[stanleycoin]

11 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

its not a case of having the money, its a case of now having 20,000 english pounds in a Thai bank for 3 months, and we hear every week of skimmers, using cloned cards to nick money from unsuspecting people with the banks taking no responsibility for the losses. and everyone having to show 800,00 baht in the bank i dont trust a Thai bank as far as i can spit

Never had any serious problems with Thai Banks in 20 years.

I keep at least 1 plus million, in the banks here,  for any emergency if needed.

Never a problem.

 

Ps, always found Thai bank staff more polite than any staff at banks from

my home country. 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

20 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

That the UK embassy will reverse its decision? That will blow over? Doubtful.

Other embassies have after similar notices on their website

 

What embassies? Where?

 

[blackhorse]

 

What embassies? Where?

 

Sorry got that wrong. They wanted proof of income. My mistake

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/971991-australian-embassy-proof-of-income-now-required-for-stat-decs/

 

 

However they did back flip on this so anything is possible

[OmarZaid]

The American Embassy "Letter" is no more than an affidavit in which the subject swears that what he/she states (regarding monthly income) is true. Thus there is no guaranteed made other than a sworn statement. I've made two of these far, submitted without proof of income to either embassy staff or immigration officials for my marriage visa, all with no problem --- although I had the proof in my pocket (bankbooks, etc.)

 

As for Brits... I suspect something's afoot ... I wouldn't let it rest just yet .... 

[Ebumbu]

6 minutes ago, Doznotdiz said:

US Citizens are already being asked for proof and I know of one who couldn’t provide it and is heading home. Now they are targeting the UK, and soon to follow will be Australia and Canada. The UK Embassy is stating that you need to show minimum 65,000 per month coming into a Thai account. I think that Immigration should clarify the situation because not everyone has a Thai account, and these people should be allowed to show proof of income abroad. A shame really because most expats I know live comfortably on half of what they are requiring. We all need to find out what constitutes “proof of income” - here or abroad; how many months required? Some people have rental, dividend, and pension income which would require accumulation and conversion to baht.

Questions please: 

 

1) Being asked for proof from whom? The US embassy does not verify income and are very clear about it. 

2) Where in Thailand did this happen? 

3) Did the IO expect to see a specific, monthly, recurring deposit? 

4) What did they want to see that couldn't be provided? 

5) I earn more than 65,000, but I don't deposit it into a Thai bank account every month. Should I be concerned? My yearly average is comfortably more than 65,000. But some months, I make no deposits. I deposit funds when I need them. 

[Spidey]

16 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

An embassy can review and withdraw specific services subject to FO guidance.

And your point is? You are merely confirming my assertion that this change in policy has come directly from the FO in London.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, blackhorse said:

Sorry got that wrong. They wanted proof of income. My mistake

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/971991-australian-embassy-proof-of-income-now-required-for-stat-decs/

 

I'm not Australian... But it seems to me I've seen Australians posting in these threads here lately that that prior announcement also was later changed again...

 

But either way, they didn't and haven't stopped issuing income letters.

 

[Jingthing]

31 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

If Immigration still require an Embassy letter, (but until they make an announcement it still remains speculation) why then doesnt the embassy insist on the bank statements showing the proof of deposit of the 40/65,000 per month or a 12 mth total of 800,000+ showing an average over the year, surely then they could verify the income.

Immigration does require an income letter. Embassies have different policies on what they require to issue the letters and also the details on such letters. Embassies don't make Thai immigration policy.

[SheungWan]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

And your point is? You are merely confirming my assertion that this change in policy has come directly from the FO in London.

I guess my point is that services can be withdrawn other than the basic ones. Where the decision to do so originates in London or from the local embassy is not so important.

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I'm not Australian... But it seems to me I've seen Australians posting in these threads here lately that that prior announcement also was later changed again...

 

But either way, they didn't and haven't stopped issuing income letters.

 

Which might indicate that British expats might want to complain and complain LOUDLY in numbers to their embassy. At the very least they need their embassy to clarify if they have some kind of official buy in from Thai immigration that British national's income applications will be accepted without any income letter if other rules are met. Or if they don't have such buy in from Thai immigration as I strongly suspect, they need to make a major edit of their announcement directing people to make such applications without letters.

[smedly]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I'm not Australian... But it seems to me I've seen Australians posting in these threads here lately that that prior announcement also was later changed again...

 

But either way, they didn't and haven't stopped issuing income letters.

 

Because it is not their responsibility to prove that your declaration is true - that is down to Thai Immigration, The British embassy letter was different - they actually confirmed your income - which they are now saying they can no longer do

 

The two methods involving Embassies were fundamentally different

[Krataiboy]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Let's break down what's happening objectively.

 

The British embassy will stop issuing income letters. They are telling their nationals wanting to use an income method to show bank deposits in Thailand instead. Thai immigration officially still REQUIRES embassy income letters of all nationals. Confused? You should be. For now, it would be rational for Brits to prepare to use the 800K bank in a Thai bank method and ignore the strange advice from their own embassy.

 

For now, this appears to only be a British thing in stopping the income letters. 

There is no hard evidence that it will spread, only fear and rumors.

 

As far as CORRUPTION. As far as VISA AGENTS and IMMIGRATION OFFICERS engaging in corruption allowing applications that don't even begin to comply with the rules get accepted in exchange for cash payments, the possibility that there might someday be a CRACKDOWN has always been there. Is that crackdown going to happen soon? Maybe. Maybe not.

 

Personally I have always warned people not to use visa agents in that way because you never know, someday it might bite you real bad. 

 

As far as people doing LEGIT applications, bank or income (if not British) there is as yet no confirmed news that there is any change at all. 

 

Maybe there will be such changes soon, and I understand the reason that people of all nationalities are freaking out and that's including people not engaged in corruption, but I think it's time to CHILL until we actually hear confirmed news of such major changes (for all nationals). 

 

Brits who are going to have problems complying even legitimately, OK, it might be time for them to panic. 

 

Thai immigration officially still REQUIRES embassy income letters of all nationals. 

 

Presumably, you mean from visa applicants unable to show bank deposits of the required level. Personally, I just keep 800,000 baht permanently in a current account (for a retirement visa annual extension) and proof of this (bank letter, plus printout of account and original bankbook) is all I have ever needed for immigration.

 

True, ongoing inflation is eating into the value of the "frozen" money , but I reckon it's worth it to save the time, money and inconvenience of traipsing to Bangkok and back.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Which might indicate that British expats might want to complain and complain LOUDLY in numbers to their embassy. At the very least they need their embassy to confirm that they have some kind of official buy in from Thai immigration that British national's income applications will be accepted without any income letter if other rules are met. 

 

I think the Brits are still trying to FIND their embassy....

[bbi1]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

I listened to this news item this morning on Fabulous 103FM. The OP isn't entirely accurate.

 

It stated that several visa agents (presumably those known to seed accounts) have already been turned away from Jomtien Immigration and told not to return.

 

It appears that the crackdown has already started.

23 minutes ago, Doznotdiz said:

US Citizens are already being asked for proof and I know of one who couldn’t provide it and is heading home. Now they are targeting the UK, and soon to follow will be Australia and Canada. The UK Embassy is stating that you need to show minimum 65,000 per month coming into a Thai account. I think that Immigration should clarify the situation because not everyone has a Thai account, and these people should be allowed to show proof of income abroad. A shame really because most expats I know live comfortably on half of what they are requiring. We all need to find out what constitutes “proof of income” - here or abroad; how many months required? Some people have rental, dividend, and pension income which would require accumulation and conversion to baht.

 

It was only a matter of time before a crackdown on the Retirement Visa. First it was the Ed Visa, then the Tourist Visa, now it's hitting the old dudes with their Retirement Visas. I remember the days when some old dudes on this forum liked taking glee in singling out young dudes who were here on those type of visas. Now it's them that's being cracked down upon.

[bristolgeoff]

Last year I saw a American doing his visa himself.he did the paperwork all good.he waits fòr them to check then finished for one more year.if you can get the paper work in yourself why use a visa service in cnx they want proof of income and the embassy is one way to do it.i,am sure it is a storm in tea cup as many will find out in time from all countries.don,t forget you were paying for this service in the first place from your embassy

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Thai immigration officially still REQUIRES embassy income letters of all nationals. 

 

Presumably, you mean from visa applicants unable to show bank deposits of the required level. Personally, I just keep 800,000 baht permanently in a current account (for a retirement visa annual extension) and proof of this (bank letter, plus printout of account and original bankbook) is all I have ever needed for immigration.

 

True, ongoing inflation is eating into the value of the "frozen" money , but I reckon it's worth it to save the time, money and inconvenience of traipsing to Bangkok and back.

Of course I was speaking about income based applications, not full bank account applications. Full bank account applications definitely DO NOT require embassy income letters. I should add there are rumors even reports now that some offices may now be requiring STATIC 800K account applications to show some kind of ACTIVITY in those accounts. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Ultimately, all this still comes down to the basic, still unanswered question of whether the British Embassy is simply being fussy and doing this on their own, or whether Thai Immigration has made some kind of new demand re income letters that embassies in general feel they won't be able to meet...

 

I don't think we know the answer to that fundamental issue, as yet.