Marriage Extension, expiring passport, income letter

[SimonD]

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[Black arab]

Just tried to sign petition, itnow has the 5 signitures required

[Bangkok Barry]

5 hours ago, alphason said:

(with my wifes income, some purchases made on UK cards etc we just don't need that much)

 

This is a valid point which is totally ignored by the Thai authorities. Wife's income. It is the same, though, when a minimum income limit is placed on UK citizens wanting to 'import' their Thai wife into the UK. She could be rolling it, but the income level is based entirely on how much the husband is worth. Sexism is alive and flourishing in government corridors.

[Media1]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I think you should wait and see what actually happens with the UK embassy income letter thing. I think there will be another option that they will come up with.

a. I think if needed that is what I would do instead of losing more than a year on your passports validity.

b/c That is your decision. But it may not be needed.

The UK no longer will add the old passport's remaining validity to the new one.

Over countries have a online payment status. You maybe able to use it as proof of income

[Caine]

Thank God I do 6 months about from Britain and didn’t retire to land of scams burning my bridges with the UK. No visa problems for the sensible ones.

[dick turpin]

6 hours ago, alphason said:

c) Apply new passport soon but lose nearly 18 months on it, apply income letter with new passport and hope its still valid when I do my extension. (Am I right that they don't add 9 months to the new passport anymore?)

Think also you can't apply for a new passport until within nine months of old passport expiring. 

[chang50]

10 minutes ago, Caine said:

Thank God I do 6 months about from Britain and didn’t retire to land of scams burning my bridges with the UK. No visa problems for the sensible ones.

Why do some posters feel compelled to broadcast how sensible and by extension how stupid others are at a time when many are facing difficult even distressing situations?

[Classic Ray]

I am a bit bemused as I am still working on a spouse extension/work permit for my wife plus I have a UK pension. She doesn’t  pay me the required 40,000 baht per month as we can top up from UK funds, but I don’t want to bring it in every month or keep 400,000 in the bank. I presume my funds don’t have to come from abroad anyway, so maybe I could just get her to pay me 40,000 a month and transfer the excess back to her. But that puts my local tax bill up. Think I will just have to top it up each couple of months or so from UK pension to show the 40,000 average.

[alphason]

1 hour ago, robertson468 said:

Easy, put 65,000 in to your account and then transfer the balance you don't use to your Wife's Account and the next month, you transfer back in to your account enough to make up the difference to 65,000 baht.  See below:

 

Sep - deposit 65,000 baht in your account.

      - spend say 30,000 baht, leaving a balance in your account of 35,000 baht.

Sep - transfer 35,000 baht in your Wife's account.

Oct - transfer to 35,000 baht back to your account and deposit a further 30,000 baht in to your account thereby having 65,000 baht in your account again for Oct.

I have been assuming that they would want to see it coming in from a Uk bank

[alphason]

28 minutes ago, dick turpin said:

Think also you can't apply for a new passport until within nine months of old passport expiring. 

No you can do it anytime https://www.gov.uk/renew-adult-passport/renew

If your passport’s expired, you must renew it before you can travel. You can renew your passport at any time.

Time left on your old passport will not be added to your new one.

[Caine]

I’m sure the U.K. government has more on its plate than to be conserned about verifying a few expats income. The decision is made you won’t change it live with it. Answer stick the required amount into a Thai bank. Dodgy I know but that’s the solution and if you haven’t got the required amount what are you doing here.

[HHTel]

Everything posted is just speculation.  We don't know the whole story yet.

Does this apply to all embassies?  It seems the Canadian Embassy has implied that they won't change.

Has immigration been informed of the British Embassy's change?

Will immigration rules change?

If and when this happens, what will immigration accept in lieu of the income letter.

 

It's a 'wait and see' situation.  Unfortunately for expats renewing their extension in the first 3 months of next year, they will be the guinea pigs for the rest of us to learn from. 

 

[Suradit69]

9 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I think you should wait and see what actually happens with the UK embassy income letter thing. I think there will be another option that they will come up with.

Yes, if a situation is created where large numbers of farang (not just the British) can't demonstrate their financial resources and have to give up, rest assured that real estate developers and other businesses will pressure the government to not go overboard on the requirements for foreigners to stay here.

 

When immigrations wanted to have the income letter issued a week (or a month??) before renewing extensions, the embassies explained the hardship that would cause and the Ministry/immigrations decided to allow six months for the letter.

 

If the embassies can't reliably verify income, immigrations won't be able to cope with figuring it all out for each extension applicant.

 

The US embassy has always made it clear they were issuing a sworn affidavit not any kind of investigative report. The embassies that did claim they actually were capable of checking on all sources of claimed income were delusional or plain lying.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Suradit69

[TGIR]

6 hours ago, jesimps said:

The Thais seem to be ok with the US method of the applicants self certifying that they satisfy the critetia. The Brit Emb will only say that they've seen documents that say that a person has X amount of pension. Can anyone think of a good reason why the Brits don't use the US method? The embassy would still be absolved from any responsibility.

The U.S. letter is a simple Notary affirmation that the person signing the letter has identified himself as the one who actually signed it.  It is NOT an affirmation that the signator has proof of the amount claimed in the letter.  It astounds me that I don't see anyone in the U.S. Embassy or Thai Government realizing the truth of the matter.  

[The Deerhunter]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Immigration would no require you to show 12 months of bank deposits since you are only proving the income you have on the date you apply. At the most they would want to see 3 months of transfers into your account.

The 400k baht only has to be in the bank for 2 months for every extension based upon marriage. The 60 days and 3 months is only for retirement extensions.

Thank heavens my country is still issuing statutory declarations.  My financial arrangements built up over many years at home with my pension, companies and family trusts may give me an income greater than my requirement but do not show simple transfers all into one account for them to look at.  So I sure feel sorry for those in the same situation as me but from England or USA.  

[Kalasin Jo]

9 hours ago, colinchaffers said:

Its a private pension and I can take it as a lumpsum (which I did for this year), The first date that I can take it nest year being 6 weeks before for the Extension. Next year I could take it monthly, quarterly as a lump sum etc. If I take it monthly there is the extra admin and cost. 

 

I'm with Bangkok bank and was under the impression that there is code on transfers which signify its being transferred from outside the country. 

Bangkok Bank do not have a code which shows the transfer in as coming from abroad, at least not on the online statements. It just says auto. A paper statement may but I don't get those.  And I think a paper statement certified by the bank would be needed anyway, not just a print out.

 

If only the 3 months prior to the renewal request is needed showing 40k / 80k baht going in, as I think Ubon Joe is suggesting, then that would be simpler...and cheaper than an Embassy letter, but isn't it for the Thais to say that....and give us time to adjust?

 

 

 

That said I am not at all convinced by the BE "excuse" that the Thais have suddenly introduced a requirement that Embassies are expected to verify the income support documentation provided to them by us. Other posters have asked their IOs who say nothing has changed. The BE has been doing it for decades, like other embassies have. I'd only be convinced if other embassies also withdrew the service immediately too and for the same reason, and it doesn't sound as if that is the case. I am also suspicious because the BE line is that this" problem" was highlighted in May, yet they leave it until just this week to very suddenly withdraw the service, with a "last orders" must be in by 12 December notice. Too fishy by half.

 

I think the bottom line is that the BE is moving from its grand site, which was sold last year ( presumably for a huge sum given its location) and at the same time downsizing their staff. 

 

I suggest we all write, politely but firmly, complaining that their decision puts many Brit expats who rely solely on monthly pension payments in great difficulty as we can't all just rustle up £ 10k or 20k and stick it in a Thai savings account and unusable whilst it "seasons" for 2 or 3 months, which is their advice. Perhaps they'd like to lend us such sums for the relevant period!!

 

Apologies for long comment!

[JackThompson]

14 minutes ago, Kalasin Jo said:

Bangkok Bank do not have a code which shows the transfer in as coming from abroad, at least not on the online statements. It just says auto. A paper statement may but I don't get those.  And I think a paper statement certified by the bank would be needed anyway, not just a print out.

My Bangkok Bank bank-book shows the transfers as foreign.  But, these do not update as far back in time as they used to, so one needs to update it regularly.  One can get a detailed printout of transfers at the bank, showing original currency amount, etc.

[quandow]

An earlier report indicated the U.S. embassy may be following suit. I written them for clarification and will keep TV posted.

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, TGIR said:

The U.S. letter is a simple Notary affirmation that the person signing the letter has identified himself as the one who actually signed it.  It is NOT an affirmation that the signator has proof of the amount claimed in the letter.  It astounds me that I don't see anyone in the U.S. Embassy or Thai Government realizing the truth of the matter.  

There is more to it than getting a simple notary stamp.

A person has to sign the income affidavit in front of a consular officer and swear that it is true and correct. It is criminal offense to make a false statement to a officer.

[alphason]

21 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The 400k baht only has to be in the bank for 2 months for every extension based upon marriage. The 60 days and 3 months is only for retirement extensions.

How does the 2 months work, is it 60 days, 2 full calendar months or eg 5 Mar to 5 May, on the date of application or the date extension is due.

 

Does it have to be new money from overseas, eg I have a couple of accounts here already I could use to fund a new account I would open for seasoning, but could not show the money coming in from overseas and then make it up to 400K with a topup overseas transfer (transferwise).

 

Until there is more certainty on using income instead of money on deposit I think its wise to plan to do this  for now.

 

Thanks

Edited October 11, 2018 by alphason
changed 90 days to 60 days

[Derek B]

cc FYI

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, alphason said:

How does the 2 months work, is it 90 days, 2 full calendar months or eg 5 Mar to 5 May on the date of application or the date extension is due.

It is 2 calendar months as per your example. If you put it in the bank today (Oct. 11th) you could apply for the extension on the 11th of December.

 

14 minutes ago, alphason said:

Does it have to be new money from overseas, eg I have a couple of accounts here already I could use to fund a new account I would open for seasoning, but could not show the money coming in from overseas and then make it up to 400K with a topup overseas transfer (transferwise).

There is no requirement for proof that the 400k baht came from abroad. 

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, Derek B said:

cc FYI

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand

Nothing new there. It is identical to what was posted on their website on Monday.

[alphason]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

23 minutes ago, alphason said:

How does the 2 months work, is it 90 days, 2 full calendar months or eg 5 Mar to 5 May on the date of application or the date extension is due.

It is 2 calendar months as per your example. If you put it in the bank today (Oct. 11th) you could apply for the extension on the 11th of December.

 

23 minutes ago, alphason said:

Does it have to be new money from overseas, eg I have a couple of accounts here already I could use to fund a new account I would open for seasoning, but could not show the money coming in from overseas and then make it up to 400K with a topup overseas transfer (transferwise).

There is no requirement for proof that the 400k baht came from abroad. 

Thanks again ubonjoe

 

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

6 minutes ago, Derek B said:

cc FYI

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand

Nothing new there. It is identical to what was posted on their website on Monday.

In that link it incorrectly says 3 months seasoning  for marriage, shows the BE does not really understand the details and maybe why they are saying to show 40K per month in a Thai account to immigration.  

 

For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa.

[lucifer666]

Take no notice. If my experience of being here is anything to go by, they will forget all about this in a month or so. Bullcrap happens like this every month,,,,,,AAAAAAAND then it's just forgotten.

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, alphason said:

In that link it incorrectly says 3 months seasoning  for marriage, shows the BE does not really understand the details and maybe why they are saying to show 40K per month in a Thai account to immigration.  

There are multiple errors in that. Just proof they do not have a clue about what they are writing about.

Even calling  extensions of stay a visa is a big error.

[alphason]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

2 hours ago, alphason said:

In that link it incorrectly says 3 months seasoning  for marriage, shows the BE does not really understand the details and maybe why they are saying to show 40K per month in a Thai account to immigration.  

There are multiple errors in that. Just proof they do not have a clue about what they are writing about.

Even calling  extensions of stay a visa is a big error.

Exactly right, if they can't get this not that difficult to find information correct (could have asked ubonjoe!), makes the theory that they know something we don't regarding immigration accepting 40K monthly into a Thai account as proof very unlikely,  and this is all down to the BE not any upcoming Immigration changes.

[NoshowJones]

On 10/10/2018 at 11:08 AM, alphason said:

Thanks Joe, you seem to agree with what I thought was the best option for now, basically wait and see.

 

Hopefully the BE and/or immigration will sort out the issue. I don't currently bring in 40K every month (with my wifes income, some purchases made on UK cards etc we just don't need that much) so if they decide to want to see 12 months history of Thai deposits I couldn't do it without some notice, although if 12 months history rather than say 3 was needed I would most likely just switch to 400K on deposit, that's why I was asking about the 2/3 months seasoning requirement.

 

Thank you.

"Hopefully the BE and/or immigration will sort out the issue."

If it is Thai Immigration who have to sort out the issue, you can be certain that they won't do anything in our favour, it is just not in their nature to improve anything for us ex pats.

[NoshowJones]

On 10/10/2018 at 11:27 AM, alphason said:

IF that's what happens and immigration just decide they only want to see 40K going into a Thai account with 3 months history then that in fact will make things easier than they are now for a lot of people (no embassy income letter, no 400K sat in a Thai account, just 3 months of 40K).

 

Great I don't know that, reluctant to do it but makes things a bit easier then if it comes to it early March 2019, you never know the fx rate may have recovered a little by then.

 

Thankyou ubonjoe

"then that in fact will make things easier than they are now"

Thai immigration will never ever, not in a month of Sundays, make things easier for us expats, they

will make things harder for us first.

[safarimike11]

Regarding the 400k Thai Baht on deposit, if you don't have that figure in a single bank account for 3 months when you go for your renewal, but you have had (a total of at least) 400k on deposit for at least 3 months in a combination of other Thai bank accounts (and the total figure has not dropped below the magic 400 k mark - and can provide proof of this), it may well be accepted.