Marriage Extension, expiring passport, income letter

[alphason]

I am starting to consider what I will do if the British Embassy no longer issues the income letter and theres no policy change from immigration. There is so much we don't know yet, what the BE are currently saying does not match with immigration policy. We need to know to be able to plan ahead.

 

My extension is due beg of May 2019, but my passport will expire end Apr 2020, my plan was to get a new passport around Feb next year, then the income letter, then extension end of Apr ish.

 

Now unless anything changes I can see 3 options:
a) Forget the early passport renewal, apply for income letter before 12 Dec and hope its still accepted when I do my extension before early May, but will lose a few weeks on the extension as I think they date it only last until the expiry of my passport? Then apply for a new passport later and have the stamps transferred.
b) Apply for income letter first, then apply new passport and hope the income letter will still work with a new passport number, then apply income letter before 12 Dec and hope its still accepted when I do the extension.
c) Apply new passport soon but lose nearly 18 months on it, apply income letter with new passport and hope its still valid when I do my extension. (Am I right that they don't add 9 months to the new passport anymore?)

 

At the moment I think A is the best option if I am correct that immigration will still give me an extension but end it on the expiry date of my passport & that the income letter issued in Dec 18 will still be valid for a May 2019 extension. This way also gives some time in the hope that things have sorted themselves out, either BE restarts the letter or immigration will accept something else.

 

If I reluctantly decided to change and top up accounts to have 400K on deposit in Thailand would it need to be for 3 months as I already have an extension, or could I get away with 2 months as its the first extension using this method?

 

Thanks.
 

[ubonjoe]

I think you should wait and see what actually happens with the UK embassy income letter thing. I think there will be another option that they will come up with.

a. I think if needed that is what I would do instead of losing more than a year on your passports validity.

b/c That is your decision. But it may not be needed.

The UK no longer will add the old passport's remaining validity to the new one.

[alphason]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think you should wait and see what actually happens with the UK embassy income letter thing. I think there will be another option that they will come up with.

a. I think if needed that is what I would do instead of losing more than a year on your passports validity.

b/c That is your decision. But it may not be needed.

The UK no longer will add the old passport's remaining validity to the new one.

Thanks Joe, you seem to agree with what I thought was the best option for now, basically wait and see.

 

Hopefully the BE and/or immigration will sort out the issue. I don't currently bring in 40K every month (with my wifes income, some purchases made on UK cards etc we just don't need that much) so if they decide to want to see 12 months history of Thai deposits I couldn't do it without some notice, although if 12 months history rather than say 3 was needed I would most likely just switch to 400K on deposit, that's why I was asking about the 2/3 months seasoning requirement.

 

Thank you.

[ubonjoe]

Immigration would no require you to show 12 months of bank deposits since you are only proving the income you have on the date you apply. At the most they would want to see 3 months of transfers into your account.

The 400k baht only has to be in the bank for 2 months for every extension based upon marriage. The 60 days and 3 months is only for retirement extensions.

[alphason]

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Immigration would no require you to show 12 months of bank deposits since you are only proving the income you have on the date you apply. At the most they would want to see 3 months of transfers into your account. 

IF that's what happens and immigration just decide they only want to see 40K going into a Thai account with 3 months history then that in fact will make things easier than they are now for a lot of people (no embassy income letter, no 400K sat in a Thai account, just 3 months of 40K).

 

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The 400k baht only has to be in the bank for 2 months for every extension based upon marriage. The 60 days and 3 months is only for retirement extensions. 

Great I don't know that, reluctant to do it but makes things a bit easier then if it comes to it early March 2019, you never know the fx rate may have recovered a little by then.

 

Thankyou ubonjoe

Edited October 10, 2018 by alphason

[colinchaffers]

Immigration would no require you to show 12 months of bank deposits since you are only proving the income you have on the date you apply. At the most they would want to see 3 months of transfers into your account.
The 400k baht only has to be in the bank for 2 months for every extension based upon marriage. The 60 days and 3 months is only for retirement extensions.

Joe, I have an annual pension and want to show it as income. Could I just transfer it every three months, one quarter?

I'm concerned if a transfer it in total they will want it to be seen as a lump sum.

Unfortunately, my payment is only 6 weeks before my extension.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, colinchaffers said:

Joe, I have an annual pension and want to show it as income. Could I just transfer it every three months, one quarter? 

I'm concerned if a transfer it in total they will want it to be seen as a lump sum.

You could do the transfers every 3 months but they might want proof of the source to prove you are not transferring it in from a saving account.

 

10 minutes ago, colinchaffers said:

Unfortunately, my payment is only 6 weeks before my extension.

Why would it only be 6 weeks? I thought most pensions were sent monthly or every 4 weeks for some countries.

[alphason]

19 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You could do the transfers every 3 months but they might want proof of the source to prove you are not transferring it in from a saving account.

Its all speculation at the moment if Thai immigration will change policy to allow foreign income to be shown in a Thai bankbook rather than by embassy letter. I would say IF they do allow this in future they won't be looking at the source of the income just the amount coming from overseas, they don't have the skills to check all different sources of income or the resources to do it hence why they currently ask the embassy to do it and issue a letter. But who knows??? this is the flaw in the theory immigration will accept proof of income in this way.

Edited October 10, 2018 by alphason

[Moonlover]

18 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Joe, I have an annual pension and want to show it as income. Could I just transfer it every three months, one quarter? 

I'm concerned if a transfer it in total they will want it to be seen as a lump sum.

 

18 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

ou could do the transfers every 3 months but they might want proof of the source to prove you are not transferring it in from a saving account.

A possible solution regarding UJ's comment about proving the source, is to transfer the money from your home bank via TransferWise.

 

When you perform a transaction via TW a slip is produced, which can be downloaded as a PDF which will prove, categorically that the money came in from abroad.

 

ML

[colinchaffers]

26 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You could do the transfers every 3 months but they might want proof of the source to prove you are not transferring it in from a saving account.

 

Why would it only be 6 weeks? I thought most pensions were sent monthly or every 4 weeks for some countries.

Its a private pension and I can take it as a lumpsum (which I did for this year), The first date that I can take it nest year being 6 weeks before for the Extension. Next year I could take it monthly, quarterly as a lump sum etc. If I take it monthly there is the extra admin and cost. 

 

I'm with Bangkok bank and was under the impression that there is code on transfers which signify its being transferred from outside the country. 

[alphason]

13 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

A possible solution regarding UJ's comment about proving the source, is to transfer the money from your home bank via TransferWise.

 

When you perform a transaction via TW a slip is produced, which can be downloaded as a PDF which will prove, categorically that the money came in from abroad.

 

ML

I assumed the money would have to come from your home bank anyway (which the TW slip could prove), or it could just be money form illegal Thai working. I took ubonjoes comment to mean the source of the money you transferred being income rather than just money sitting in your home countries bank savings account? 

Edited October 10, 2018 by alphason

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

A possible solution regarding UJ's comment about proving the source, is to transfer the money from your home bank via TransferWise.

No need to do that. All my transfers into the country are shown in my bank book as FTT (foreign telex transfer).

By souce I did not mean proof it came from abroad anyway. I meant the source of the income in the country it came from.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, colinchaffers said:

Its a private pension and I can take it as a lumpsum (which I did for this year), The first date that I can take it nest year being 6 weeks before for the Extension. Next year I could take it monthly, quarterly as a lump sum etc. If I take it monthly there is the extra admin and cost. 

You would need to prove that it was a annual pension payment from your private pension. I assume you could get that from your pension provider. 

 

7 minutes ago, colinchaffers said:

I'm with Bangkok bank and was under the impression that there is code on transfers which signify its being transferred from outside the country. 

The above is what I meant not proof that the funds came from abroad.

[Andyfez]

If this is a decision by the British embassy (not a Thai policy change), is there nothing we can do to change this decision?

After all surely the embassy is there to serve us, not the other way round?

[Expattaff1308]

15 minutes ago, Andyfez said:

If this is a decision by the British embassy (not a Thai policy change), is there nothing we can do to change this decision?

After all surely the embassy is there to serve us, not the other way round?

Bombard them with complaints. I have written to the Embassy FCO Foreign Minister & The PMs Office

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1061149-british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters/https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1061149-british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters/

Edited October 10, 2018 by Expattaff1308

[crazykopite]

It’s now a few days since this announcement I would have thought that Thai Visa would have contacted the BE on behalf of all its readers to ask for clarification of the situation and can we expect to hear further updates in the coming weeks .

[jesimps]

The Thais seem to be ok with the US method of the applicants self certifying that they satisfy the critetia. The Brit Emb will only say that they've seen documents that say that a person has X amount of pension. Can anyone think of a good reason why the Brits don't use the US method? The embassy would still be absolved from any responsibility.

Edited October 10, 2018 by jesimps

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, richiejom said:

No need to do that. All my transfers into the country are shown in my bank book as FTT (foreign telex transfer).

By souce I did not mean proof it came from abroad anyway. I meant the source of the income in the country it came from.

 

1 hour ago, richiejom said:

Just checked my Kasikorn.... Paypal transfers I made don't show as foreign which is what I heard.  But Transferwise shows 'International Trade and Factoring Center':

 

Looks like I'll be using Transferwise then

Yep. Just done the same with Krungsri. All deposits, other than a cheque, (that's a bit novel nowadays!) show as TN, no matter what the source is. TN apparently stands for 'Transfer Deposit Nobook'. There is nothing that differentiates domestic from foreign.

 

This is something that I'm getting up to speed on, in readiness for next year's extension, sans embassy letter. It looks like I shall be relying on bank statements plus a TW transfer slips. Let's hope that the embassy's information on this matter is accurate.

[Expattaff1308]

33 minutes ago, richiejom said:

I started this below, is it worth petitioning parliament?  https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/230120/sponsors/new?token=DK30K4e4lQKtLa3JO0h8

 

It needs 5 people to sign to go live 'Reinstate Pension/Income Proof Letter at Bangkok UK Embassy'

 

 

Reinstate Pension/Income Letters at Bangkok British Embassy

 

As of the 12th of December 2018 British Citizens can no longer request a proof of income letter required to obtain a Retirement or Extension based on Marriage visa in Thailand

Other Countries Embassy's have an option to sign an affidavit that your income is true.   

 

The British Embassy has stated that this is because the Thai Immigration require proof that they cannot provide yet the current income letter already covers the embassy legally.  

 

The British Embassy has left us to resolve this with Thai immigration

The Thai immigration has not made any announcement and still requests the letter. Failing this retired or married Brits may be forced to transfer between £9-18,000 to a Thai bank as proof

Signed, Get it onto the other Thread

Edited October 10, 2018 by Expattaff1308

[Hans Rayong]

The order came from London, not Bangkok. Brexit means that everyone who is abroad may blame themselves.

[dabhand]

21 minutes ago, richiejom said:

Yes I think it needs to go on the main thread with 60 odd pages...  Its only had 1 signature so far by a Canadian guy

Signed.

[steve73]

2 hours ago, richiejom said:

Just checked my Kasikorn.... Paypal transfers I made don't show as foreign which is what I heard.  But Transferwise shows 'International Trade and Factoring Center':

 

Looks like I'll be using Transferwise then

 

I've used TW into Kasikorn for over a year now.. Some payments are shown as Dummy branch, others as International, and then back to Dummy again.

I'm just hoping the source of funds are not (or don't become) important for my next extension using the 800k method.

Edited October 10, 2018 by steve73

[hugh2121]

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

A possible solution regarding UJ's comment about proving the source, is to transfer the money from your home bank via TransferWise.

 

When you perform a transaction via TW a slip is produced, which can be downloaded as a PDF which will prove, categorically that the money came in from abroad.

 

ML

With Bangkok Bank my statements show "International Transfer" and the amount credited to my account. I would have thought that would be sufficient to prove the money came from abroad......but who knows?

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, richiejom said:

I started this below, is it worth petitioning parliament?  https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/230120/sponsors/new?token=DK30K4e4lQKtLa3JO0h8

 

It needs 5 people to sign to go live 'Reinstate Pension/Income Proof Letter at Bangkok UK Embassy'

 

 

Reinstate Pension/Income Letters at Bangkok British Embassy

 

As of the 12th of December 2018 British Citizens can no longer request a proof of income letter required to obtain a Retirement or Extension based on Marriage visa in Thailand

Other Countries Embassy's have an option to sign an affidavit that your income is true.   

 

The British Embassy has stated that this is because the Thai Immigration require proof that they cannot provide yet the current income letter already covers the embassy legally.  

 

The British Embassy has left us to resolve this with Thai immigration

The Thai immigration has not made any announcement and still requests the letter. Failing this retired or married Brits may be forced to transfer between £9-18,000 to a Thai bank as proof

Good move. I have also sent out e-mails. I would suggest that you start a new topic with this petition as the prime subject. It'll catch more eyes.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Moonlover

[Moonlover]

1 minute ago, richiejom said:

I did consider that, I wanted to see how much support it got first

The more eyes that see it, the more support you're likely to get, wouldn't you think?

[robertson468]

4 hours ago, alphason said:

Thanks Joe, you seem to agree with what I thought was the best option for now, basically wait and see.

 

Hopefully the BE and/or immigration will sort out the issue. I don't currently bring in 40K every month (with my wifes income, some purchases made on UK cards etc we just don't need that much) so if they decide to want to see 12 months history of Thai deposits I couldn't do it without some notice, although if 12 months history rather than say 3 was needed I would most likely just switch to 400K on deposit, that's why I was asking about the 2/3 months seasoning requirement.

 

Thank you.

Easy, put 65,000 in to your account and then transfer the balance you don't use to your Wife's Account and the next month, you transfer back in to your account enough to make up the difference to 65,000 baht.  See below:

 

Sep - deposit 65,000 baht in your account.

      - spend say 30,000 baht, leaving a balance in your account of 35,000 baht.

Sep - transfer 35,000 baht in your Wife's account.

Oct - transfer to 35,000 baht back to your account and deposit a further 30,000 baht in to your account thereby having 65,000 baht in your account again for Oct.

[fvw53]

2 hours ago, Andyfez said:

If this is a decision by the British embassy (not a Thai policy change), is there nothing we can do to change this decision?

After all surely the embassy is there to serve us, not the other way round?

Embassies are created to have better communications between two countries...not to "serve" their citizens...but they should not trouble them...although Embassies act only upon instructions from the Foreign Ministry in their own countries.

[Moonlover]

40 minutes ago, hugh2121 said:

With Bangkok Bank my statements show "International Transfer" and the amount credited to my account. I would have thought that would be sufficient to prove the money came from abroad......but who knows?

Looks good for you, but not for me in Krungsri as I pointed in #21 above.

[Moonlover]

6 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

Easy, put 65,000 in to your account and then transfer the balance you don't use to your Wife's Account and the next month, you transfer back in to your account enough to make up the difference to 65,000 baht.  See below:

 

Sep - deposit 65,000 baht in your account.

      - spend say 30,000 baht, leaving a balance in your account of 35,000 baht.

Sep - transfer 35,000 baht in your Wife's account.

Oct - transfer to 35,000 baht back to your account and deposit a further 30,000 baht in to your account thereby having 65,000 baht in your account again for Oct.

The money that goes from my account to my wife's account travels down a one-way street!

[peterpop]

I wondered why Chiang Mai Immi wanted all the supporting papers for the British Embassy letter.  It seems to me they will ask for something similar next year.  Should not be a problem just a few bank statements from UK.