BREAKING NEWS British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

[NCC1701A]

Just now, Jingthing said:

I wouldn't even ask for that. Thai law about foreigners protesting here is very clear.

the point is telling them the reason.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, NCC1701A said:

the point is telling them the reason.

Interesting.

A better idea might be for Thai nationals married to foreigners to complain to their own government for creating enough heat that at least one embassy feels justified to take the drastic action that they did.

[usacb500biker]

False Information by this Post !!!  B Sh_t....As of 1:45 PM dated  11 October 2018  US Embassy said at this time their is No, NO changes .THey are still processing Income Affidavits......SO all Americans Can Relax and go have a Beer. I wasted 2 hours reading that U K Crap, E-mail US Embassy......Thanks U K  Mates.......

[safarimike11]

22 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...Earlier this week the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok confirmed no change to its current process..."

 

Great to be Canadian, eh?

 

My sympathies to the Brits and the Yanks...

 

"A".

 

22 hours ago, smedly said:

too expensive on transfer fees

 

[flipside555]

19 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

Yes and the British government is refusing to do their job.  The Thai government has always expected that and if immigration is starting to strictly enforce it then they need to do their job, cooperate with immigration, AND ACTUALLY VERIFY THE INCOME AND CONTINUE TO PROVIDE THE PROOF OF INCOME VERIFICATION!!!  Because it’s BS the British Embassy saying that they can’t verify your income because yes they can they just have to require people to bring in their documents proving their income it’s as simple as that but instead the British Embassy is being lazy.  I’ve actually always wondered why they give us the income verification letter without having to show proof in the past.  According to the United States Embassy they don’t need proof since you are swearing on an official government document that you receive the income and in the United States it’s a felony crime to lie on a notarized government document.  

 

So I don’t know what is wrong with the British Embassy but this is absolutely NOT immigrations fault the British Embassy is refusing to cooperate with immigration and that’s a pretty obvious fact.  I just also spoke to my visa agent and NONE OF the other embassies are stopping this service IT IS ONLY THE BRITISH EMBASSY...

Your arguments are all over the place. First you say scream that proof has always been required. Then you say you've always wondered why the US Embassy has never required proof.

 

What the British Embassy said is absolutely correct.

 

Quote

Consular officers are not verification experts and therefore cannot fulfil (sic) this requirement. We also cannot verify income from every income source in every country of the world. 

 

If somebody goes in with official-looking documentation purporting to prove that the holder is receiving  pensions from 5 different companies in 5 different countries, speaking 5 different languages, into 5 different bank accounts in 5 different currencies,  how can can the British Embassy be expected to verify that he really is receiving those pensions? It's not their job.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by flipside555
typo

[usacb500biker]

I have 5,000,000.00B in USA Bank of AM what"s cheapest way to send one 1,000,000.B  to Bangkok Bank ?? What"s the Western Unions Fees.? Thanks....

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

I've asked this same question twice now with no legit answer in sight, hopefully they will listen to you.

There is no answer as there's no such route at IO.

[flipside555]

3 minutes ago, usacb500biker said:

I have 5,000,000.00B in USA Bank of AM what"s cheapest way to send one 1,000,000.B  to Bangkok Bank ?? What"s the Western Unions Fees.? Thanks....

http://bfy.tw/KJ47

[Issanjohn]

15 minutes ago, flipside555 said:

Your arguments are all over the place. First you say scream that proof has always been required. Then you say you've always wondered why the US Embassy has never required proof.

 

What the British Embassy said is absolutely correct.

 

 

If somebody goes in with official-looking documentation purporting to prove that the holder is receiving  pensions from 5 different companies in 5 different countries, speaking 5 different languages, into 5 different bank accounts in 5 different currencies,  how can can the British Embassy be expected to verify that he really is receiving those pensions? It's not their job.

 

What I said is the truth it’s not an argument or a debate.  

[flipside555]

1 minute ago, Issanjohn said:

What I said is the truth it’s not an argument or a debate.  

ํYou said that proof has always been required and you said that proof has never been required. That's a funny old truth.

[ukrules]

The way I see it is Thai immigration have proposed a change and told the British Embassy and probably many of the other embassies about it.

 

The British embassy decided to make a stand and refuse to play ball with this new change, hence the announcement about no longer offering the yearly statements of income.

 

Now they're waiting to see what the Thais do in response to this. If I know Thais they will probably do nothing, they generally wait until things blow up in their face before backtracking on so many things.

 

I see this move by the British Embassy as an attempt to bring the Thai backtracking forward before it does some real damage as they can see what will happen before it happens, it is obvious this will cause problems and the people who work in the embassy are not stupid.

 

This forthcoming change hasn't been announced by immigration yet so we don't know exactly what it is but from the statement made we do know that one part of whatever is changing requires verification of income, a service which is not provided by some embassies.

 

I wonder what else they're (Thai Immigration) changing in addition to this.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, Issanjohn said:

You can tell the embassy official exactly who I am I don’t care this is the information I received.  my full name is ,,, and my FULL email address is ....  Go ahead and tell him please send him my contact information.  I’d like to understand what he means by it didn’t come from him.  

 

You really are not supposed to be, and shouldn't be, posting your personal details here. I think it's even against forum rules.

 

But, as to your point, it would appear to me that we're getting our respective email answers from two different people at ACS...  Since obviously, the ACS person responding to my email had never seen and was unfamiliar with the answer that you received.

 

Not that surprising, really, since I'd imagine they get a lot of emails to respond to, and especially in the past two days.

 

Only thing I can say it, it would be nice if ACS could huddle together and decide on what the actual correct, single message/answer they want to provide to American citizens here.  But maybe that's too much to expect.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, ukrules said:

The way I see it is Thai immigration have proposed a change and told the British Embassy and probably many of the other embassies about it.

 

The British embassy decided to make a stand and refuse to play ball with this new change, hence the announcement about no longer offering the yearly statements of income.

 

Now they're waiting to see what the Thais do in response to this. If I know Thais they will probably do nothing, they generally wait until things blow up in their face before backtracking on so many things.

 

I see this move by the British Embassy as an attempt to bring the Thai backtracking forward before it does some real damage as they can see what will happen before it happens, it is obvious this will cause problems and the people who work in the embassy are not stupid.

 

This forthcoming change hasn't been announced by immigration yet so we don't know exactly what it is but from the statement made we do know that one part of whatever is changing requires verification of income, a service which is not provided by some embassies.

 

I wonder what else they're (Thai Immigration) changing in addition to this.

 

 

The only problem thus far is, there's been NO statement from Thai Immigration on this at all.  Only the British Embassy alluding to the subject of their past meeting with Thai Immigration on the issue of the letters.

 

There was a news article here in the past couple days quoting Hakpal talking about "visa" changes being considered, including one possibility of allowing foreign expats to claim some part of the assets of their Thai spouses. But that was just an idea he said was under review, and nothing been decided. And I don't believe that news report had anything from Immigration relating to income letters.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Issanjohn]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You really are not supposed to be, and shouldn't be, posting your personal details here. I think it's even against forum rules.

 

But, as to your point, it would appear to me that we're getting our respective email answers from two different people at ACS...  Since obviously, the ACS person responding to my email had never seen and was unfamiliar with the answer that you received.

 

Not that surprising, really, since I'd imagine they get a lot of emails to respond to, and especially in the past two days.

 

Only thing I can say it, it would be nice if ACS could huddle together and decide on what the actual correct, single message/answer they want to provide to American citizens here.  But maybe that's too much to expect.

 

Yes it would be nice if they could give us both the same answer but please go ahead and reply to him and feel free to give him my contact information because I’d like him to email me back and explain what he’s talking about in the email that he sent to you saying that it didn’t come from him because it sure did.  So please tell the embassy official who I am and let him know that I’m confused now.  

[Spidey]

58 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

how about some UK expats asking the Thai government permission to hold a small protest outside the UK embassy in Bangkok. 

 

When they ask what for, you can tell them hundreds of thousands of UK expats have to leave Thailand and you are angry.  

Good shout. Time it with a visit from some dignitary and they would sit up and take notice. Particularly if you could get good press coverage.

[flipside555]

16 minutes ago, ukrules said:

The British embassy decided to make a stand and refuse to play ball with this new change, hence the announcement about no longer offering the yearly statements of income.

Agreed.  That's the way I saw it. Or maybe there wasn't a change. Perhaps the issue had previously been conveniently ignored, with the Thais taking the letter to mean that the income had been verified, and the British Embassy knowing that it hadn't.  This time the British Embassy specifically asked, "Are you expecting us to verify the income?" and the Thais replied, "Yes.".

Edited October 11, 2018 by flipside555

[metisdead]

A post in violation of the following has been removed:

 

18) You will not post phone numbers, email addresses, business names, or web/Facebook/Twitter/Google+ addresses in posts or signatures. Web addresses to personal non-commercial sites sites/blogs, or Facebook/Twitter/Google+ addresses, may be posted in a member's profile page.
 

[jimn]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Under current Thai immigration policies NEITHER deposits into a Thai bank OR into your home country bank will suffice for an income based application without an embassy income letter.

I've never read even ONE REPORT over over a DECADE of that ever being accepted.

They may change the policy. But not now. Not yet.

The British embassy does NOT make Thai immigration policy.

You are right there is nothing in the Thai immigration rules requiring full import of claimed income into Thai banks. 

At this point in time, the only fully safe option is the 800K in the bank method, seasoned. At least for Brits.

But Brits can still get letters now and they are good for SIX MONTHS.

Agree that without any clarification the 800,000 bank method is the only confirmed way at the moment. It would have been better if the BE had not put out its latest statement as it only shows what baffoons they are. However I go back to the 65k requirement. The screenshot posted earlier showed the requirements for the 65k income from the official Thai immigration website. Nowhere does it say where the 65k has to come from. I hear what you say about 

"deposits into a Thai bank OR into your home country bank will suffice for an income based application without an embassy income letter.

I've never read even ONE REPORT over over a DECADE of that ever being accepted"

The official website differs from that accepted view.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

Yes it would be nice if they could give us both the same answer but please go ahead and reply to him and feel free to give him my contact information because I’d like him to email me back and explain what he’s talking about in the email that he sent to you saying that it didn’t come from him because it sure did.  So please tell the embassy official who I am and let him know that I’m confused now.  

 

Again, you're assuming that the respective email answers we received were written by the same person (him or her!). And, it seems pretty apparent to me that they were not, and instead written by two different people at ACS.

 

I did reply to ACS for a 3rd time, not providing your personal details, since that's irrelevant, but sharing the 2nd reply you received, and asking them once again, can they please get together at ACS and provide a SINGLE version of their answer that they intend to be the accurate one for Americans here.

 

No response from them as yet. They seem to do most of their email replies in the morning and midday, and things sent in in the afternoon often don't seem to generate answers until the next day.

 

 

[Issanjohn]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The only problem thus far is, there's been NO statement from Thai Immigration on this at all.  Only the British Embassy alluding to the subject of their past meeting with Thai Immigration on the issue of the letters.

 

There was a news article here in the past couple days quoting Hakpal talking about "visa" changes being considered, including one possibility of allowing foreign expats to claim some part of the assets of their Thai spouses. But that was just an idea he said was under review, and nothing been decided. And I don't believe that news report had anything from Immigration relating to income letters.

 

I spoke with immigration this morning in person and they said that the policy hasn’t changed on their part and that information came directly from the immigration supervisor.  This has nothing to do with immigration except that they maybe starting to enforce the rule that embassies are required to actually verify our income which I have no problem with.  But apparently the British Embassy is refusing to cooperate with immigration and outright refusing to do their job.  Basically the British Embassy is saying “the heck with our citizens living in Thailand” and that’s egregiously wrong.  Not only that then they flat out lie and say that the United States Embassy is doing the same thing which is absolutely not true.  I’ve already confirmed that the United States Embassy will continue to provide this service.  

[mikebike]

22 hours ago, chudless said:

Clearly I have as it shows those who can barely afford to live here with no cash reserves are scared sh*tless. No sympathy at all. 

Clearly you haven't.

 

I earn income from rental property and have no desire to tie up 800,000 baht of investable income here when it it working much harder for me in my home country.

 

Has nothing to do with being able to afford to live here.

[Spidey]

14 minutes ago, ukrules said:

the people who work in the embassy are not stupid.

What on earth gave you that crazy notion? ????‍♂️

[wgdanson]

46 minutes ago, usacb500biker said:

I have 5,000,000.00B in USA Bank of AM what"s cheapest way to send one 1,000,000.B  to Bangkok Bank ?? What"s the Western Unions Fees.? Thanks....

I would hope that with Bht 5,000,000,  a few 100 Bht more charges would not bother you whichever way you send it

[flipside555]

6 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

 But apparently the British Embassy is refusing to cooperate with immigration and outright refusing to do their job.  Basically the British Embassy is saying “the heck with our citizens living in Thailand” and that’s egregiously wrong.

Why do you keep repeating this? Both the British and American embassies are rightly stating that it is not their job to verify income details of their citizens. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

I spoke with immigration this morning in person and they said that the policy hasn’t changed on their part and that information came directly from the immigration supervisor.  This has nothing to do with immigration except that they maybe starting to enforce the rule that embassies are required to actually verify our income which I have no problem with.  But apparently the British Embassy is refusing to cooperate with immigration and outright refusing to do their job.  Basically the British Embassy is saying “the heck with our citizens living in Thailand” and that’s egregiously wrong.  Not only that then they flat out lie and say that the United States Embassy is doing the same thing which is absolutely not true.  I’ve already confirmed that the United States Embassy will continue to provide this service.  

 

John, I think you're overplaying your hand.

 

1. You or I can talk to Immigration 5 times, and get 5 different answers to any given question. They have zero consistency or reliability in what they say, especially from one Immigration Office to another. And especially when issues like the income affidavits aren't getting handled at the line staff level, but somewhere higher up in their hierarchy.

 

2. You continue to post that U.S. ACS has committed to saying they're going to continue providing the income affidavit letters, even when you know and understand the same ACS has now twice sent me emails that do NOT include that same assurance that you received.

 

I'm not saying the info you received is wrong. Just saying, you're going too far in your presumptions, based on what's in hand and the way things work here.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[transam]

2 minutes ago, flipside555 said:

Why do you keep repeating this? Both the British and American embassies are rightly stating that it is not their job to verify income details of their citizens. 

The Embassies have always made a lot of money for providing one sheet of A4 paper...I thought making money was a good for all....

 

UK A4 sheet costs 2,500bht....Do you think that is a ploblem to aid their nationals, plus making money and providing employment for Thais..

• Quote

..?

[imaderbyfan]

Ok.This will be my last post about this subject until we hear more from those that are involved in making whatever decisions need to be made ...

In the meantime, I intend to apply to the Brit embassy for my usual letter before the stated cut off date, my extension renewal being 29 th Jan 2019, and being told in person by a high ranking officer at Kanchanaburi Immi that the will honour it for 6 months.

My take on it is (conjecture I know).... 

Thai Immi have told the B.E. that they want them to put an Embassy stamp on a document that would put them in a heap of mire if it was not true, basically saying that the applicant does in fact recieve the income that said applicant states and provides statements/ documents to support said income.

They currently will only say they have seen evidence provided by the applicant, and absolve themselves of going any further than that.

In such circumstances I can see the point that the B.E. are making.

I would suggest that whilst it would be possible for the applicant to take such supporting documents to Immi with his extension application and Embassy letter (which would then be almost useless anyway) Immi are reluctant to accept the extra tasks for its officers to understand and rubber stamp numerous income sources.

So we have a stand off 

As for other Nationalities....  

Compare their practices with The B.E. ......I would say that affirmation is less evidence than the Brit method..... Good luck all..  

[Issanjohn]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It looks like two different people are answering our emails from ACS, because obviously the person writing to you is NOT the same one who is writing to me...  The opening sentence below refers to the email clip that you previously posted here from ACS.

 

Actually check out this email he just responded to me AGAIN from the United States Embassy!  And I confirmed that it’s the same embassy employee signed AB see for yourself.  He says the SAME SENTENCE at the end of the email “no plans to stop providing the proof of income affidavit at anytime in the foreseeable future”!!!!  Please see for yourself and please do forward this email back to him and let them know that they need to give us all a straight answer.  I’ve already said that to this person at the embassy but more than one voice is louder than just me.  So please go ahead and show him the email I just received.  I have another friend who’s also a United States citizen who has to get his next extension next month!  He’s on a marriage visa as well as I am.  

[flipside555]

2 hours ago, Just Weird said:

The British Embassy has never confirmed or guaranteed that any incomes shown by British citizens are genuine.  Read your previous income letters if you don't believe me.   How can the Embassy provide a service that they cannot fulfill?

It would be interesting to know if Thai Immigration has told the British Embassy that they must change the wording in this letter. If they haven't then why is the British Embassy going to stop issuing the letter? As you point out the letter does not verify income, it just states that you claim to have the income and have shown some documentation. 

 

If they have told the British Embassy that they must change the letter and actually verify the information, then presumably they will tell other embassies the same thing. The letter from the American Embassy, for example, say pretty much exactly the same thing as the letter above. The main difference is that American one doesn't even state that they have seen any documentation.

 

If the American letter continues to be acceptable to Thai Immigration, and the British Embassy is not happy stating that it has seen documentation, then why doesn't it start issuing letters similar the American one? There is no verification involved, just confirmation that you are who you say you are and you claim to have the income. 

[Veritas48]

If there is any entity on the planet that is guaranteed to shaft UK citizens it is the British Consulate in Bangkok.They have been overcharging for passports for decades and taking nearly 3000 baht for a letter cofirming pensions etc for decades.I even remember having to pay for a letter of confirmation of citizenship to go to Taiwan due to a spat that was started by the UK in the early 90's.Bunch of highly paid halfwits.