BREAKING NEWS British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

[theoldgit]

10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

My brain is addled after the past two days of income affidavits.... But I THOUGHT (not sure) I'd seen other people posting on Transferwise transactions saying they were showing up on the Thai bank end as domestic deposits. But I think those comments were based on what people were seeing in regular online banking, not the mobile apps. For sure, @Pib is our resident expert on Transferwise transactions, especially from the U.S.

On my Kasikorn statement it shows up as "DUMMY BRANCH" nothing is mentioned as the funds coming from overseas, I was one of those who shared that information a day or so ago.

 

On my PDF receipt from Transfer Wise, it does however show that the transaction is initiated in GBP but goes onto to say that the funds are delivered via local bank transfer from Bangkok Bank.

 

Whilst the audit trail is pretty clear I suspect that the IO on the desk probably wouldn't be able to follow it, and to be fair why should they be expected to? 

 

I'm still assuming that the IO needs to be satisfied that the funds come from overseas, otherwise the funds could be from employment within Thailand. 

[ozmeldo]

I love it. Crocodile tears.

 

If you can generate 65k off of assets monthly you should have zero trouble moving 4-800k to Thailand in support of the annual visa. I'd always thought this a far easier - this method always suspect and open to abuse.

 

Given cash rates and non junk bonds. Anything outside of risky equity markets quite difficult to earn solid low risk return. You'd have to have serious cash and investments to throw off 800k a year (about 2000 gbp or 2500 USD pm).

 

I think the most social security is US is like 1300. Maybe you old farts lucky enough to have a pension on top of that but many don't.

 

Us younger folk, it's all about investments, 401ks etc. Safe to assume those now under 55 will have no corporate pension. Only government flunkies

 

The jig is up.

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

I'm not defending the embassy. Just pointing out that the timing of both the initial meeting in May, and the announcement about discontinuing income letters a few days after the immigration shakeup seem to speak for themselves. 

There's no evidence of a meeting in May or what was said, except for the word of the British Embassy which has proved to be not worth a hill of beans.

[CharlieH]

Bickering removed.

[Wanderlust]

Reading some of the posts it seems that the belief is that an application to extend on the basis of income has a requirement that the funds originate outside of Thailand; I'm not trying to say that is incorrect, but where in either official websites or paperwork does it specify this? I can't find it, along with the requirement that an embassy letter needs to be provided. Is this only something that they request 'on the ground'?

[Skeptic7]

Received a survey on TransferWise today. It was only 1 question, but then had a suggestion box on how they can improve. I suggested making sure that International transfers always be designated as such on the receiving end...as some countries have income requirements for long term visas and this would be extremely helpful. 

[soalbundy]

I have only ever shown income in a German bank account, I have never been asked about transfering funds to a Thai account. I take my Thai bank book along which has almost no money in it, I use it to have my minimal British pension (7,000 Baht) sent to Thailand. Every year it confuses them that as an Englishman I have a German pension and so we talk about the EU and how long I worked in Germany etc but all good natured stuff, no third degree. I tell them I use the ATM to withdraw money, yeah OK, no ploblem.

[Wanderlust]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I have only ever shown income in a German bank account, I have never been asked about transfering funds to a Thai account. I take my Thai bank book along which has almost no money in it, I use it to have my minimal British pension (7,000 Baht) sent to Thailand. Every year it confuses them that as an Englishman I have a German pension and so we talk about the EU and how long I worked in Germany etc but all good natured stuff, no third degree. I tell them I use the ATM to withdraw money, yeah OK, no ploblem.

Presumably this is also with an embassy letter (and other supporting documents)?

[Cricky]

24 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

due to the British embassy that is the problem

Why are people still blaming the Embassy, they are protecting themselves. 

Over the many years you have used this service the embassy has provided and now you all turn against it when things dont go your way.

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by VYCM

[soalbundy]

13 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

Presumably this is also with an embassy letter (and other supporting documents)?

yes, letter from the German embassy, once they see that they aren't interested in any other documents, they are offered up but nobody seems to look at them, maybe the 'big boss' upstairs when he has to sign for it. He always comes down every year and asks why I have a German pension, seems to forget our talks from last year, he asks how my son is doing at school and if he can speak English (must be on the computer), general chit chat, it's quite a friendly office (Kap Choeng) from my experience anyway. One point about people cheating the system, he always changes from Thai and starts talking to the missus in the khamen language which I can't speak, the missus then tells me later that he asks if she can verify that I do have such a big pension, so even with documents and embassy letter they seem to have some slight doubts about falang income, possibly by having been fooled in the past. 

[starky]

20 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I think it's more to do with not being able to verify his income due to the British embassy that is the problem. We don't all have that cash as a lump sum. I get a good pension, more than enough to be eligible for the visa extension but after building two houses and sending my step daughter to university I have no cash surplus. My son and my other step daughter eat the last vistas of hair on my head.

That's unfortunate. I don't believe having 800000 in the bank is a surplus though. I would be shitting bricks if that was all I had in the bank. If it is a requirement for the embassy to provide a letter surely they have to do it no? Otherwise immigration must accept your bank details. For those complaining about exchange rates that's the game you play but if shit changed tomorrow and I was required to move a shed load of money to Thailand to stay here I would do it. 

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, VYCM said:

Why are people still blaming the Embassy, they are protecting themselves. 

Over the many years you have used this service the embassy has provided and no you all turn against it when things dont go your way.

 

Firstly, it isn't a free service and secondly none of the other embassies are making waves to the detriment of their own citizens, but considering brexit they seem to like waves.

[theoldgit]

Patronising troll post removed, together with response.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, starky said:

That's unfortunate. I don't believe having 800000 in the bank is a surplus though. I would be shitting bricks if that was all I had in the bank. If it is a requirement for the embassy to provide a letter surely they have to do it no? Otherwise immigration must accept your bank details. For those complaining about exchange rates that's the game you play but if shit changed tomorrow and I was required to move a shed load of money to Thailand to stay here I would do it. 

That's what all these posts are about isn't it ? It is a requirement and the BE wont supply the letter.

[dick dasterdly]

25 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I think it's more to do with not being able to verify his income due to the British embassy that is the problem. We don't all have that cash as a lump sum. I get a good pension, more than enough to be eligible for the visa extension but after building two houses and sending my step daughter to university I have no cash surplus. My son and my other step daughter eat the last vistas of hair on my head.

 

Just now, starky said:

That's unfortunate. I don't believe having 800000 in the bank is a surplus though. I would be shitting bricks if that was all I had in the bank. If it is a requirement for the embassy to provide a letter surely they have to do it no? Otherwise immigration must accept your bank details. For those complaining about exchange rates that's the game you play but if shit changed tomorrow and I was required to move a shed load of money to Thailand to stay here I would do it. 

There's no doubt that it IS a requirement of Thai Immigration that a retirement visa (reliant on proof of income) extension request is supported by a letter from the relevant Embassy, and clearly they don't "have to do it" as the brit. embassy has decided that it's not going to do so in future.....

Edited October 12, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Jingthing]

Reality update -- Thai immigration policy is REQUIRING income letters for income based applications. There has never been a report here of one being accepted without that. That might change, but then again it might not.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Jingthing

[wayned]

1 hour ago, ozmeldo said:

I think the most social security is US is like 1300.

Wrong!  It depended on when you retired and how many credits that you had where you paid the maximum amount.  I retired at 65 with maximum credits and, guess what my monthly payment, with COL increases, is $2250.  If I had retired at 62 I would only be receiving 75% of that.  My Private retirement is for life, but does not have any COL increases.

[flipside555]

8 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Firstly, it isn't a free service and secondly none of the other embassies are making waves to the detriment of their own citizens, but considering brexit they seem to like waves.

The sticking point is this:

 

Quote

in a meeting with immigration in May in which they confirmed that they expect the embassy to verify all sources of income of British Nationals requesting an income letter.

 

The BE is saying, understandably, that it cannot verify the sources of income. It never has done in the past, nor has any other embassy. I'm sure more information will be forthcoming. Either other embassies will have to change their policies, or the British Embassy will have to explain why it is the only embassy being required to verify. I think there has been too much of an outcry about this for them to simply ignore it.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, wayned said:

Wrong!  It depended on when you retired and how many credits that you had where you paid the maximum amount.  I retired at 65 with maximum credits and, guess what my monthly payment, with COL increases, is $2250.  If I had retired at 62 I would only be receiving 75% of that.  My Private retirement is for life, but does not have any COL increases.

The other member was correct in stating an approximate AVERAGE S.S. retirement check. Emphasis on the word -- AVERAGE. Many higher. Many lower. 

 

But according to this source the AVERAGE is closer to 1400 than 1300 but the AVERAGE is nowhere even close to the level of your check.

 

Quote

The average person who signed up for Social Security in the past year was awarded $1,413.08 per month in benefits; however, benefits vary depending on a person's work history, so careful planning can allow you to receive a lot more than that amount.

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/08/30/how-big-is-the-average-persons-social-security-che.aspx

Enjoy.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Jingthing

[Wanderlust]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Reality update -- Thai immigration policy is REQUIRING income letters for income based applications. There has never been a report here of one being accepted without that. That might change but then again, it may not.

I am certain you are correct, but is that only for income that is not entering a Thai bank? Is there anyone on here who goes the income route and has it going into a Thai bank rather than an overseas bank that they draw cash from via ATM? Do they still need the income letter? There is nothing I can find on the official requirements list of documentation (https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22 for over 50 and https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_18 for marriage) that mentions either the letter or that the money must come from overseas. This seems to be the accepted norm at the offices though.

[blackhorse]

 
The BE is saying, understandably, that it cannot verify the sources of income. It never has done in the past, nor has any other embassy. I'm sure more information will be forthcoming. Either other embassies will have to change their policies, or the British Embassy will have to explain why it is the only embassy being required to verify. I think there has been too much of an outcry about this for them to simply ignore it.

They are not required to verify! They chose it! Maybe they felt like they were doing the right thing but found themselves liable in the end and Said screw you we are done

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

I am certain you are correct, but is that only for income that is not entering a Thai bank? Is there anyone on here who goes the income route and has it going into a Thai bank rather than an overseas bank that they draw cash from via ATM? Do they still need the income letter? There is nothing I can find on the official requirements list of documentation (https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22 for over 50 and https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_18 for marriage) that mentions either the letter or that the money must come from overseas. This seems to be the accepted norm at the offices though.

Officers have always had the right to demand further evidence of the income claimed on the letter. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Jingthing

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, flipside555 said:

The sticking point is this:

 

 

The BE is saying, understandably, that it cannot verify the sources of income. It never has done in the past, nor has any other embassy. I'm sure more information will be forthcoming. Either other embassies will have to change their policies, or the British Embassy will have to explain why it is the only embassy being required to verify. I think there has been too much of an outcry about this for them to simply ignore it.

The German embassy verifies my income, no other embassy to my knowledge has issued any warning regarding verification, as for the 'meeting' allow me to doubt the lying toads.

[Wanderlust]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

It is for ALL income based applications. Period. Officers have always had the right to demand further evidence of the income claimed on the letter. 

Actually that isn't what I asked; if you don't present the letter but do present the other supporting documentation that they normally don't ask for if you have the letter, what happens?

[Jingthing]

Just now, Wanderlust said:

Actually that isn't what I asked; if you don't present the letter but do present the other supporting documentation that they normally don't ask for if you have the letter, what happens?

Rejected.

[flipside555]

3 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

They are not required to verify! They chose it! Maybe they felt like they were doing the right thing but found themselves liable in the end and Said screw you we are done

From the very first post in this thread:

 

"The decision was made by the British Embassy following a meeting with immigration in May in which they confirmed that they expect the embassy to verify all sources of income of British Nationals requesting an income letter.  

[granuaile]

5 hours ago, wayned said:

For all Us Citizens!

 

I have an appointment to get my annual Income Affidavit next Tuesday morning at the US Embassy in Bangkok..  In light of all of the babble going on I emailed ACS at the US Embassy last night and received the following reply at 0700 this morning:

 

"You are able to get your income affidavit on Tuesday. We are aware of the U.K. Embassy’s statement to the press. The U.S. Embassy’s current income affidavit policies can be found on our website: https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/. We are currently evaluating options regarding the future provision of this document.  We urge all citizens to ensure they are in compliance with Thai visa requirements."

 

So it looks like, at least for the time being, that Us Income Affidavits are still available.  I emailed them back and asked them if they do change the policy that they give us at lest 90 days notice so that we can adhere to the 90 day seasoning period for the 800000 baht bank deposit method.

Thanks for sharing this here. I have an appointment on the 26th. Since I'm going to be home for 3 months after that, thought prudent to make an appointment just in case current policy changes. Glad I did. This next extension was probably going to be my last one anyway. I'm a bit sad that the U.S. embassy is even "evaluating" but perhaps there will some other type of statement. Hopefully, if there are changes they will give some notice.

[flipside555]

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

The German embassy verifies my income, no other embassy to my knowledge has issued any warning regarding verification, as for the 'meeting' allow me to doubt the lying toads.

Haha. Allowed.

 

But I understand their position. If somebody goes to BE with official-looking documentation purporting to prove that the holder is receiving  pensions from 5 different companies in 5 different countries, speaking 5 different languages, into 5 different bank accounts in 5 different currencies,  how can can the British Embassy be expected to verify that he really is receiving those pensions? It's not their job.

 

If the German Embassy is really verifying everything, then that is very impressive.

[Wanderlust]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Rejected.

Is that from personal experience, or from someone you know, or just generally accepted knowledge? I have never tried, but I am trying to separate actual fact from everything else - I find it strange that the British Embassy would say that it is possible to go the income route with regular income to a Thai account if they hadn't been told that by the Thais.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, flipside555 said:

From the very first post in this thread:

 

"The decision was made by the British Embassy following a meeting with immigration in May in which they confirmed that they expect the embassy to verify all sources of income of British Nationals requesting an income letter.  

yeah, and brexit means brexit, why believe these toads, they have moved to a smaller embassy and are saving on staff.