BREAKING NEWS British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

[soalbundy]

8 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

How each country manages Thai requirements is a sovereign matter.

True, in general I have found the German embassy to be extremely helpful, in fact during my time in Germany I found all the government departments I came into contact with, even the tax office, to be citizen orientated.

Only yesterday evening I sent an Email to my old company requesting a document I had lost (pension verification) 11 o'clock this morning they had Emailed me the document but in black and white, I asked if they could send a cloured one (Firms logo) 20 minuets later it was there.

[Wanderlust]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

I don't know what was said but I seriously doubt that  anyone on the Thai  side used the term 'must'-  and if they did  I would have stated my position and indicated  the letters would still be issued as usual and then it would be up to Thailand to decide if they will ask the applicant for added info or proof.

Obviously no one knows what was said in these meetings, and I have as much disdain for the British Embassy as anyone else, but my interpretation of the described events is that it is likely that the Thais have told the BE that anyone applying with the letter as it stands will either be rejected or have to produce the supporting documents; thus rendering the letter useless anyway, so what would be the point in charging for something that people can't use? It could be that the BE are looking out for us Brits after all in this instance.

[DPKANKAN]

8 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

Obviously no one knows what was said in these meetings, and I have as much disdain for the British Embassy as anyone else, but my interpretation of the described events is that it is likely that the Thais have told the BE that anyone applying with the letter as it stands will either be rejected or have to produce the supporting documents; thus rendering the letter useless anyway, so what would be the point in charging for something that people can't use? It could be that the BE are looking out for us Brits after all in this instance.

You do have to provide supporting documents to the Embassy anyway. They do not allow word of mouth. I give them the letters I receive from my pension fund advisers who oversee our scheme and it sets out the pension I will be getting for the next 12 months. They are also copied to Immigration in my renewal 'pack'.

Edited October 12, 2018 by DPKANKAN
Spelling

[SheungWan]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I don't know what was said but I seriously doubt that  anyone on the Thai  side used the term 'must'-  and if they did  I would have stated my position and indicated  the letters would still be issued as usual and then it would be up to Thailand to decide if they will ask the applicant for added info or proof.

What the Thais may or may not have said is not really the issue, it is rather about the UK signing off on a written requirement. The UK has now considered that they are not prepared to sign off documents as verified/validated unless the process fully complied with which they do not consider they have done previously and either do not have or wish to apply in the future.

[soalbundy]

21 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

Bearing in mind the slagging-off and ridicule that is dished out to the British Embassy in Bangkok on a tediously, regular basis, by regularly tedious members (you know who you are), I'd bet that the staff there (who, I'm sure, keep an eye on what is said here) will be wetting themselves laughing at the panicking members who now would like to plead with them for some assistance!  And I wouldn't blame the Embassy staff at all!  Hahaha!!

There won't be many Brits there anyway and most of the Thai staff will be glued to their iphones. dissatisfaction doesn't come from thin air, many Brits are quietly patriotic (though not me) and normally would be loathe to slag off a British institution.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

The German embassy verifies my income, no other embassy to my knowledge has issued any warning regarding verification, as for the 'meeting' allow me to doubt the lying toads.

 

The longer this goes on, and the longer there's a pretty much absence of any other nation's embassies talking about income affidavit changes, the more this points to being a problem of the British Embassy.

 

Thus far, apart from the some uncertainty about the U.S. Embassy, AFAIK, we've heard NO rumblings of changes anywhere else.

 

All the evidence isn't in yet, and the time of the past couple days has been short. But thus far, it certainly seems to be pointing in the direction of the BE.

 

[Wanderlust]

4 minutes ago, DPKANKAN said:

You do have to provide supporting documents to the Embassy anyway. They do not allow word of mouth. I give them the letters I receive from my pension fund advisers who oversee our scheme and it sets out the pension I will be getting for the next 12 months. They are also copied to Immigration in my renewal 'pack'.

I am aware of that, but you have slightly missed my point - the Thais have told the BE that the embassy letter as it stands is not good enough without proper verification of documents presented to obtain it, and thus if the Thais have told the BE that any application with the embassy letter will either lead to a rejection of an application to extend, or will require presentation of the supporting documents to the Thais, it renders the embassy letter useless either way.

[Thaidream]

17 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

bviously no one knows what was said in these meetings, and I have as much disdain for the British Embassy as anyone else, but my interpretation of the described events is that it is likely that the Thais have told the BE that anyone applying with the letter as it stands will either be rejected or have to produce the supporting documents; thus rendering the letter useless anyway, so what would be the point in charging for something that people can't use? It could be that the BE are looking out for us Brits after all in this instance.

Point well made- but why would  Thai Imm go after the BE and not the other Embassies. Most other Embassies work similarly to the BE.  It appears to me that there is some missing information as to how this all came about-  However- not issuing the letter gives Thai Imm the advantage of saying to the applicant-' Sorry- your Embassy refuses to issue a letter for you. 'It's not us- It's them'  IMHO- you issue the letter- and let Thai Imm make the choice if they will accept it and ask for added proof.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

22 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

Obviously no one knows what was said in these meetings, and I have as much disdain for the British Embassy as anyone else, but my interpretation of the described events is that it is likely that the Thais have told the BE that anyone applying with the letter as it stands will either be rejected or have to produce the supporting documents; thus rendering the letter useless anyway, so what would be the point in charging for something that people can't use? It could be that the BE are looking out for us Brits after all in this instance.

 

The part that's missing in your assessment is WHY the BE is suddenly having a problem with Thai Immigration over the letters, when, AFAWK, no other countries are. The only known possible exception being the U.S., where their answers thus far this week have been vague and inconsistent.

 

There are a lot of other countries' embassies out there in BKK that issue income letters for their citizens. And considering the supposed meeting between the Brits and Thai Immigration occurred back in May, there's been many months since for the same issue to percolate to other countries' embassies, IF that was going to happen. And thus far, no such signs.

 

[Just Weird]

15 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

There won't be many Brits there anyway and most of the Thai staff will be glued to their iphones. dissatisfaction doesn't come from thin air, many Brits are quietly patriotic (though not me) and normally would be loathe to slag off a British institution.

"...dissatisfaction doesn't come from thin air.."

In most cases, with complaints about dissatisfaction, particularly on Thaivisa, it does, it also comes from hearsay.

 

I doubt whether many of the TV slagger-off'ers have any legitimate personal reason to be as vitriolic as they are.  I'd love to here some if there are any, though.

 

"There won't be many Brits there anyway and most of the Thai staff will be glued to their iphones".

That's fact, then, is it?  'Course it isn't, you're just slagging them off for no justifiable reason at all.

[ukbiker]

On 10/10/2018 at 10:06 AM, nightbird said:

I have a US$ account at Krungsri. It has well over the 800,000 Baht requirement for extension of stay (retirement). This may be a silly question, but will I have to change the required amount into Baht to satisfy Immigration? These are the kinds of details that can drive us crazy if told at Immigration that I need to have it in Baht and not US$! Anyone have an opinion on this?

You don't need to change your us dollars to Baht I have the same only with GB pounds and did'nt have a problem last time. 

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

e part that's missing in your assessment is WHY the BE is suddenly having a problem with Thai Immigration over the letters, when, AFAWK, no other countries are. The only known possible exception being the U.S., where their answers thus far this week have been vague and inconsistent.

 

There are a lot of other countries' embassies out there in BKK that issue income letters for their citizens. And considering the supposed meeting between the Brits and Thai Immigration occurred back in May, there's been many months since for the same issue to percolate to other countries' embassies, IF that was going to happen. And thus far, no such signs.

Yes indeed-  it could have very well been that in May- a joint meeting was held with all Embassies and the issue discussed.  The other Embassies went back and indicated no change- we will issue what we always issue- and it's up to Thai Imm to accept or ask for added info,. The Us Embassy appears to be taking the way of less resistance- It's all being studied-  Diplomacy-  I suppose.

 

Then we have the BE who has decided it is just not going to issue the letters. They would appear to be the odd  one out-  as one poster said- why issue a useless document when Thai Imm can simply ask the British applicant to prove their income. IMHO- while the BE  might be correct- it has lost the argument with Thai Imm- who will now say- 'It's not us- It's your Embassy."  

[Wanderlust]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The part that's missing in your assessment is WHY the BE is suddenly having a problem with Thai Immigration over the letters, when, AFAWK, no other countries are. The only known possible exception being the U.S., where their answers thus far this week have been vague and inconsistent.

 

There are a lot of other countries' embassies out there in BKK that issue income letters for their citizens. And considering the supposed meeting between the Brits and Thai Immigration occurred back in May, there's been many months since for the same issue to percolate to other countries' embassies, IF that was going to happen. And thus far, no such signs.

 

I suspect that either other embassies are properly verifying to the Thais satisfaction, or that the other embassies are still in discussions, or they are calling the Thais bluff by still issuing their versions (US and Oz springs to mind). The full story will likely be revealed over the next few months by what happens when people are making their applications, and my suspicion is that people of all nationalities (other than German at least) will be asked for more documentation than they have in the past, again effectively rendering the embassy letters useless. If my suspicion is correct, that could be why the US have made the statement they have, hoping that the immigration offices won't change how they do things. It's a bit of a gamble but might well prove to be the right one. The BE are possibly being more honest and straightforward.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Just Weird said:

"...dissatisfaction doesn't come from thin air.."

In most cases, with complaints about dissatisfaction, particularly on Thaivisa, it does, it also comes from hearsay.

 

I doubt whether many of the TV slagger-off'ers have any legitimate personal reason to be as vitriolic as they are.  I'd love to here some if there are any, though.

 

"There won't be many Brits there anyway and most of the Thai staff will be glued to their iphones".

That's fact, then, is it?  'Course it isn't, you're just slagging them off for no justifiable reason at all.

I've seen that first hand while waiting for service, when my time came, to give up a document, nothing else, I was told the lady (Thai of course) at the counter next to her who was scrolling through her screen dealt with that, ''cant you slide it across, it's complete''.  "'No, it's her job'', I left in disgust, I had been there two hours already and was expected to wait my time again. I've sent Emails concerning other matters, never received an answer. DWP is the same, the service is atrocious, so very British in my opinion.

[blackhorse]

I suspect that either other embassies are properly verifying to the Thais satisfaction, or that the other embassies are still in discussions, or they are calling the Thais bluff by still issuing their versions (US and Oz springs to mind). The full story will likely be revealed over the next few months by what happens when people are making their applications, and my suspicion is that people of all nationalities (other than German at least) will be asked for more documentation than they have in the past, again effectively rendering the embassy letters useless. If my suspicion is correct, that could be why the US have made the statement they have, hoping that the immigration offices won't change how they do things. It's a bit of a gamble but might well prove to be the right one. The BE are possibly being more honest and straightforward.

Nope. Wrong
The Thais can't ask for more documentation for embassies that use a statuary declaration.

The only thing they can do is put out an announcement saying ALL embassies must now use the 800k system only

That won't happen. It's the pensioners that help float thailand in low season. The Thais may be greedy for the baht but they are not stupid

[Wanderlust]

1 minute ago, blackhorse said:

Nope. Wrong
The Thais can't ask for more documentation for embassies that use a statuary declaration.

The only thing they can do is put out an announcement saying ALL embassies must now use the 800k system only

That won't happen. It's the pensioners that help float thailand in low season. The Thais may be greedy for the baht but they are not stupid

I think you'll find that any immigration office/officer can ask for whatever documentation they like if they so desire, and I am increasingly convinced that this will start happening. We hear stories all the time where people are asked for another thing that they weren't asked for the previous time. The statutory declaration/affadavit is pretty meaningless but so far has sufficed for immigration, but perhaps for not much longer.

[soalbundy]

11 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Yes indeed-  it could have very well been that in May- a joint meeting was held with all Embassies and the issue discussed.  The other Embassies went back and indicated no change- we will issue what we always issue- and it's up to Thai Imm to accept or ask for added info,. The Us Embassy appears to be taking the way of less resistance- It's all being studied-  Diplomacy-  I suppose.

 

Then we have the BE who has decided it is just not going to issue the letters. They would appear to be the odd  one out-  as one poster said- why issue a useless document when Thai Imm can simply ask the British applicant to prove their income. IMHO- while the BE  might be correct- it has lost the argument with Thai Imm- who will now say- 'It's not us- It's your Embassy."  

and yet even with all the proof in the world without the 'useless' embassy letter you get rejected. When my wife rang up the immigration about this matter she was told it was business as usual, bring the embassy letter. The BE is making waves on a smooth lake, go with the flow for Christs sake.

[blackhorse]

I think you'll find that any immigration office/officer can ask for whatever documentation they like if they so desire, and I am increasingly convinced that this will start happening. We hear stories all the time where people are asked for another thing that they weren't asked for the previous time. The statutory declaration/affadavit is pretty meaningless but so far has sufficed for immigration, but perhaps for not much longer.

Your missing the point. A statutory declaration would become null and void if there was a demand for documentation.

You wouldn't need a stat dec if that was the case.

Immigration can't mess with another countries legal documents.

Thailand would need to refuse all countries stat decs right across the board and not just immigration

Your not seeing the big picture fella

They only have one option left and that's an overhaul of the retirement extension and they won't be arsed with that

[Wanderlust]

There are, I assume, some countries that don't have any consular presence at all in Thailand, which begs the question - what do they do? Does anybody know?

[Wanderlust]

2 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

Your missing the point. A statutory declaration would become null and void if there was a demand for documentation.

You wouldn't need a stat dec if that was the case.

Immigration can't mess with another countries legal documents.

Thailand would need to refuse all countries stat decs right across the board and not just immigration

Your not seeing the big picture fella

They only have one option left and that's an overhaul of the retirement extension and they won't be arsed with that

I'm sure I have read on this forum about somebody being asked for more documentation to go along with the statutory declaration, but I guess I could be mistaken. And what do you do - refuse to show it because your stat. dec. should be sufficient? I think you would get very short shrift from Thai immigration!

[blackhorse]

I'm sure I have read on this forum about somebody being asked for more documentation to go along with the statutory declaration, but I guess I could be mistaken. And what do you do - refuse to show it because your stat. dec. should be sufficient? I think you would get very short shrift from Thai immigration!

Yes you are right. But now we are talking about individual officers and not a whole embassy.

[tropo]

10 hours ago, blackhorse said:

You have no idea what triggered the brit embassy letter shutdown. All any of us can assume it's related their statement about satisfying the thai authorities

 

The legality of the income letter "waver" was just a by product of the discussions here on TV

 

Try to keep up. Nobody said it was the sole reason

 

You're grasping at straws if you really believe a legal reason is why they stopped issuing letters. It wasn't a reason at all, just an excuse.

 

No one KNOWS anything... we're just having an informal chat here. I'm as up to date as anyone on here.

 

 

[Wanderlust]

2 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

9 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

I'm sure I have read on this forum about somebody being asked for more documentation to go along with the statutory declaration, but I guess I could be mistaken. And what do you do - refuse to show it because your stat. dec. should be sufficient? I think you would get very short shrift from Thai immigration!

Yes you are right. But now we are talking about individual officers and not a whole embassy.

Well, we all have to deal with individual officers, and if they have been told that the embassy letters or similar need to be supported with other documents then we have to comply or get rejected. It is almost irrelevant what the official department policy is in practical terms.

[tropo]

7 hours ago, SheungWan said:

11 hours ago, tropo said:

Yes, things change. For all we know we could be heading for the 800k-in-the-bank method as the only way to retire in Thailand. People seem somewhat confident that Thai Immigration will accommodate the people who cannot use this method. I'm not confident at all that they care... especially considering the heavy-handed tactics Immigration have been showing us of late.

Careful. This isn't about retirement per se. It is about the options available for those on visa extensions. What we may or may not be heading for is speculation. Let's just deal with what is actually on the table. And that, for UK nationals, will be the 800k in the bank or use an agency.

This is about retirement and of course I'm speculating... which is why I used "for all we know". What's there to be careful about? We're not calling the shots here.

[blackhorse]

Well, we all have to deal with individual officers, and if they have been told that the embassy letters or similar need to be supported with other documents then we have to comply or get rejected. It is almost irrelevant what the official department policy is in practical terms.

Never had it in 10 years and don't know anyone who has in BKK using a stat dec but your off topic

This thread has nothing to do with individuals. It's about embassies

[Joe Mcseismic]

1 hour ago, blackhorse said:

Nope. Wrong
The Thais can't ask for more documentation for embassies that use a statuary declaration.

The only thing they can do is put out an announcement saying ALL embassies must now use the 800k system only

That won't happen. It's the pensioners that help float thailand in low season. The Thais may be greedy for the baht but they are not stupid

Pensioners keeping Thailand afloat during the low season??!! Bwahahahaha!

What colour is the sky on your planet?

Thanks for the best laugh I've had this month.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Joe Mcseismic

[EVENKEEL]

Guess Philippines is looking good for some. Exchange rate 50peso/USD, beers are in the 50 peso range at many bars, cheap rent, good looking girls. Easier access to western food.

[blackhorse]

Pensioners keeping Thailand afloat during the low season??!!
What colour is the sky on your planet?

What part of "help" did you not understand?

Take away the farang retirees and the isaan economy would collapse [emoji23]

[Joe Mcseismic]

19 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

What part of "help" did you not understand?

Take away the farang retirees and the isaan economy would collapse

Isaan economy collapse?

You just get funnier and funnier.

[blackhorse]

Isaan economy collapse?

You just get funnier and funnier.

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

Those grand Maas and pops would be living off sticky rice with fish sauce

 

Never ever underestimate the power of the farang