father legal right to see his own child

[Guest Jerry787]

I seek advice who has knowledge of the Thai law concern in a not easy situation

mother is a Laotian, living in BKK on a tourist visa, always renewed by visa run to myanmar.
we didn't have sentimental relation since the child was born, i kept all the full financial support until, she found a new man, moved out from the premises and from such time, she forbid to see my child or stay with my child even for few hours.

what would be the legal option ?
what the possibility of success if  I report to the authorities (Thai), claiming the right to see and or stay with my child, and therefore obtaining a court order allowing me to see and stay with my child for a short while or even better get a co-custody rights ?

i asked already and from an officer, i got that me being a foreigner and her foreigner too, Thai court will not consider the case so to don't waste money and time and work on her country or my country and via embassy let the Thai court consider the case
I asked to a legal consultant and told me its possible, but long a costly case with 50% of success possibility.

i am confused in who to listen and don't want end up spending lot of money and worst lot of time and obtain nothing.

any one who such knowledge advice ?
or anyone who has previous similar experience advice ? 
 

[FritsSikkink]

Are you married to the mother, if not did you go to a procedure to legitimize the kid as being yours? A name on a birth certificate has not much value.

[2008bangkok]

IS the child Thai? It seems strange they would give a baby born to foreign parents with the mother being on a Tourist visa Thai citizenship but im not sure?

If not then obviously it be covered by Laos law.

 

For thais if you are not married to the mother at the time of birth then you got no legal rights and you have to go to court to fight it, regardless if you are registered on the birth certificate.

IF you was married at the time of birth then the father and mother have the same 50% rights but again this is based on child and at least one parent being Thai.

[cooked]

You need to go to the local Family Court with a lawyer with the aim of having rights of access. If the lady contests you may have to go down the DNA route, go back to court etc.

Thai village lore dictates that the boy stays with the mother, the girl stays with the father, you'll have to recognise and dismiss that piece of nonsense when you come to it. 

The Thai Family courts do, I believe, try to look out for the best interests of the child, Thai lawyers not necessarily, that's when tea money comes into play.

Good luck.

[gusincebu]

You need to go to the local Family Court with a lawyer with the aim of having rights of access. If the lady contests you may have to go down the DNA route, go back to court etc.
Thai village lore dictates that the boy stays with the mother, the girl stays with the father, you'll have to recognise and dismiss that piece of nonsense when you come to it. 
The Thai Family courts do, I believe, try to look out for the best interests of the child, Thai lawyers not necessarily, that's when tea money comes into play.
Good luck.

The mother is not Thai , the father is not Thai ..neither of them would appear to have any connection to a " Thai village " ..

Reading the OP , it seems Thai courts are not interested either.

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[cooked]

6 minutes ago, gusincebu said:

 

The mother is not Thai , the father is not Thai ..neither of them would appear to have any connection to a " Thai village " ..

Reading the OP , it seems Thai courts are not interested either.

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Well done, how perspicacious of you. All the same, if you want something done it will have to go through Thai courts. Thai courts are only interested if you engage in the legal process, they will do their job.

[2008bangkok]

Well done, how perspicacious of you. All the same, if you want something done it will have to go through Thai courts. Thai courts are only interested if you engage in the legal process, they will do their job.

No Thai court will ever ever so anything the women is on a Tourist visa, she is allowed in the country for maximum 60 days at a time.
And like I said I don't even the child is Thai if no parents are Thai.
You cannot jest come into rhebxou try as a toeusit have a baby and expect the baby to become a citizen . That's silly.

[Guest Jerry787]

yet on tourist visa but long resident as over 2 years in Thailand with the monthly visa run over the Myanmar border, without an official income, but yet with cash coming in via friends bank account. 
Practically a permanent resident, legally a tourist, as was the officer similar point of view, the possibility of the court to accept the case will be minimal.
 

Shall maybe a possibility to get Immigration get involved for the above motifs,
but again immigration is not concern on family law, as as long the passport is stamped regularly every month there will be no issue for them, at maximum explain where she get the funds for live, but being nothing illegal also cancel the tourist visa status will be not considered, i guess

i am trying to see, that why i ask suggestions, if i got any ground to start a legal process, or better drop the idea as would be just waste of time and money.
thanks for the help
 

 

5 hours ago, gusincebu said:

that is the main concern, going to a Thai court, due the present status (living in Thailand with a tourist visa, renewed every month with a visa run), which is phisically

The mother is not Thai , the father is not Thai ..neither of them would appear to have any connection to a " Thai village " ..

Reading the OP , it seems Thai courts are not interested either.

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[2008bangkok]

12 hours ago, Jerry787 said:

yet on tourist visa but long resident as over 2 years in Thailand with the monthly visa run over the Myanmar border, without an official income, but yet with cash coming in via friends bank account. 
Practically a permanent resident, legally a tourist, as was the officer similar point of view, the possibility of the court to accept the case will be minimal.
 

Shall maybe a possibility to get Immigration get involved for the above motifs,
but again immigration is not concern on family law, as as long the passport is stamped regularly every month there will be no issue for them, at maximum explain where she get the funds for live, but being nothing illegal also cancel the tourist visa status will be not considered, i guess

i am trying to see, that why i ask suggestions, if i got any ground to start a legal process, or better drop the idea as would be just waste of time and money.
thanks for the help
 

 

 

OP, what is the nationality of the baby, you keep skirting that question.

Whether a person has had 1 tourist visa or 100 Tourist visa they are still a tourist. Not practically a permanent resident at all. To be a permanent resident you need to be in the country for about 3+ yrs on a NON-O or similar visa.

 

It seems bad for saying this because i am a father of 2 myself but I feel you are wasting your time.

But out of interest can you tell us if the baby got Thai citizenship solely based on being born in Thailand.

 

[brewsterbudgen]

If the mother is Laotian then so is the baby. I doubt there is anything the Thai courts could or would even want to do. In Laos the father will be unrecognised, as unmarried "relations" between Laotians and foreigners is illegal. The best bet would be to try and get the child a passport from the father's home country, but that will be tricky if the mother doesn't cooperate.

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[LukKrueng]

45 minutes ago, 2008bangkok said:

OP, what is the nationality of the baby, you keep skirting that question.

Whether a person has had 1 tourist visa or 100 Tourist visa they are still a tourist. Not practically a permanent resident at all. To be a permanent resident you need to be in the country for about 3+ yrs on a NON-O or similar visa.

 

It seems bad for saying this because i am a father of 2 myself but I feel you are wasting your time.

But out of interest can you tell us if the baby got Thai citizenship solely based on being born in Thailand.

 

babies born in Thailand to non Thai parents don't get citizenship. In order to get citizenship at least 1 parent must be a thai citizen

[LukKrueng]

13 hours ago, Jerry787 said:

yet on tourist visa but long resident as over 2 years in Thailand with the monthly visa run over the Myanmar border, without an official income, but yet with cash coming in via friends bank account. 
Practically a permanent resident, legally a tourist, as was the officer similar point of view, the possibility of the court to accept the case will be minimal.
 

Shall maybe a possibility to get Immigration get involved for the above motifs,
but again immigration is not concern on family law, as as long the passport is stamped regularly every month there will be no issue for them, at maximum explain where she get the funds for live, but being nothing illegal also cancel the tourist visa status will be not considered, i guess

i am trying to see, that why i ask suggestions, if i got any ground to start a legal process, or better drop the idea as would be just waste of time and money.
thanks for the help
 

 

 

being in Thailand for 2 years on visa runs is basically abusing the system. Immigration will be interested in the case but the end result will probably deporting her back to Laos, with the child. I can't imagine why/how a court in Thailand will get involved in this case as none of you is a citizen. Just think about the following scenario: a family of non Thai living in Thailand and both parents die. Will the children be taken into the system / orphanage in Thailand or will they be taken to the relevant embassy so the country of their nationality take care of them?

I can't see how you can win this case without the convent of your ex girlfriend

[brewsterbudgen]

being in Thailand for 2 years on visa runs is basically abusing the system. Immigration will be interested in the case but the end result will probably deporting her back to Laos, with the child. I can't imagine why/how a court in Thailand will get involved in this case as none of you is a citizen. Just think about the following scenario: a family of non Thai living in Thailand and both parents die. Will the children be taken into the system / orphanage in Thailand or will they be taken to the relevant embassy so the country of their nationality take care of them?
I can't see how you can win this case without the convent of your ex girlfriend

That's not the case for Laotians. They can do unlimited border runs for 30 day stamps. My Lao wife (before we married) and many of her family have lived in Thailand for years like this. There is a bi-lateral arrangement for Laotians/Thais.

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[natway09]

Can I give you any advice,,,,,,, No

But all the best of luck as you are going to need it as there will be 

no help from Thai or Laos authorities under the circumstances

[Tony125]

13 hours ago, Jerry787 said:

yet on tourist visa but long resident as over 2 years in Thailand with the monthly visa run over the Myanmar border, without an official income, but yet with cash coming in via friends bank account. 
Practically a permanent resident, legally a tourist, as was the officer similar point of view, the possibility of the court to accept the case will be minimal. 
 

Shall maybe a possibility to get Immigration get involved for the above motifs,
but again immigration is not concern on family law, as as long the passport is stamped regularly every month there will be no issue for them, at maximum explain where she get the funds for live, but being nothing illegal also cancel the tourist visa status will be not considered, i guess

i am trying to see, that why i ask suggestions, if i got any ground to start a legal process, or better drop the idea as would be just waste of time and money.
thanks for the help
 

 

 

 

You ask for help but do not want to give us full information. Since you do not answer I guess we can decide that you were never married to her and since neither of you are Thai the child is not Thai but considered a stateless person. If you were USA, Brit or some other country's citizen your child might take your nationality by descent (being child of fathers country) What is your nationality? If you are from a country which allows citizenship by descent then you would at least need your name on the birth certificate, you then could go to your embassy and apply for a passport for the child. Did you ever go thru the process to legitmise the birth of your child by going to court or local Amphur? If your name was on birth certificate you could have done that and may still be able to do. If no name on birth certificate and without help from the mother I see little chance of any success without a really good lawyer.

[AJBangkok]

If you are paying to support the child then you have a right to see the child. Within Thailand you have little chance of finding a legal remedy so as harsh as it may seem your only option would be to leverage the support you pay to gain access to the child.

 

if you are not supporting the child then you have nothing to leverage with the mother and even from a legal perspective ( if the Thais would even get involved) it’s not a favorable position to be in and would hinder rather than help justify granting you access.

[Guest Jerry787]

3 hours ago, 2008bangkok said:

OP, what is the nationality of the baby, you keep skirting that question.

Whether a person has had 1 tourist visa or 100 Tourist visa they are still a tourist. Not practically a permanent resident at all. To be a permanent resident you need to be in the country for about 3+ yrs on a NON-O or similar visa.

 

It seems bad for saying this because i am a father of 2 myself but I feel you are wasting your time.

But out of interest can you tell us if the baby got Thai citizenship solely based on being born in Thailand.

 

the child is in Thailand on  Lao passport as a Lao citizenship, indeed he got also European passport.

[benalibina]

Another child being used and abused.

[khunPer]

On 10/11/2018 at 7:01 AM, FritsSikkink said:

Are you married to the mother, if not did you go to a procedure to legitimize the kid as being yours? A name on a birth certificate has not much value.

If not married, it might be a problem if Lao authorities shall be involved, as "sexual relationships between foreigners and Lao citizens who are not legally married are not permitted under Lao law." See more here: "Marriage and Relationships between Foreigners and Lao Citizens".

 

A Thai family court will probably not handle a case between two foreigners.

 

Here is a link to Lao's Law on Family in English (pdf).

[Tony125]

2 hours ago, Jerry787 said:

the child is in Thailand on  Lao passport as a Lao citizenship, indeed he got also European passport.

Since the child has also EU passport you may be able to get  your embassy involved to say she is denying you access to a EU citizen or get a lawyer to maybe even bluff her by writing her you will sue for full custody if she doesn't alow you visits with the child. You know this new guy she is with will try to keep you from seeing the kid as he doesn't want a former lover of hers to still be in the picture (around your ex) as he considers you a threat and might try to get her to come back with you.

[benalibina]

5 hours ago, Tony125 said:

Since the child has also EU passport you may be able to get  your embassy involved to say she is denying you access to a EU citizen or get a lawyer to maybe even bluff her by writing her you will sue for full custody if she doesn't alow you visits with the child. You know this new guy she is with will try to keep you from seeing the kid as he doesn't want a former lover of hers to still be in the picture (around your ex) as he considers you a threat and might try to get her to come back with you.

Embassies will not do anything. Its a private matter.

[xtrnuno41]

 I know from 1 guy here in this civilized country.

He divorced , had kid, never saw the kid. Went to court, they told him he was right.

Went to his ex , with police and court order.

AND STILL DIDNT GET TO SEE HIS SON, in fact he stopped with it then and never saw his son again. And im aware many many men have the same problem, all over the world.

And nothing is done about it. As a father you are screwed. 

Mother will and stupidly have the power, to indoctrinate the kids and youll never see your kids.  

 

[sanemax]

6 hours ago, Tony125 said:

Since you do not answer I guess we can decide that you were never married to her and since neither of you are Thai the child is not Thai but considered a stateless person. If you were USA, Brit or some other country's citizen your child might take your nationality by descent (being child of fathers country) What is your nationality? If you are from a country which allows citizenship by descent then you would at least need your name on the birth certificate, you then could go to your embassy and apply for a passport for the child.

The child wouldnt be stateless , it would have the nationality of both its parents

[thesetat2013]

i don't understand the problem.. she is clearly working illegally here in Thailand... take the kid to immigration and reporther to authorities.. they arrest and deport her and you gain custody of child 

[brewsterbudgen]

i don't understand the problem.. she is clearly working illegally here in Thailand... take the kid to immigration and reporther to authorities.. they arrest and deport her and you gain custody of child 

What makes you think she's working illegally? Plenty Laotians work in Thailand under the migrant labour programme.

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[PerkinsCuthbert]

28 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

What makes you think she's working illegally? Plenty Laotians work in Thailand under the migrant labour programme.

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And besides which, even if the lady were working illegally, who in their right mind would want to compound a very difficult problem by making it even more intractable and convoluted?