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Will ED Visa be denied after tourist visa has been denied?


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I've been living in Thailand for a while, first at a mix of ED (two times 1-year) and tourist visas but I changed my passport twice because both are full of visa stamps.

 

My new passport has 6 single-entry tourist visas and the last one has a remark that reads:

 

"The holder of this passport travels to Thailand under a tourist visa several times, which may result in the refusal of a visa in the future"

 

My last tourist visa was denied right away in Vientiane, the lady at the table checked my passport and said too many tourist visas.

 

I went to one of the agents outside there and they helped me to get back into Thailand with a 30-day visa on arrival because I came with my Thai registered car.

 

The 30 days are almost due and immigration told me I can extend it another 30 days, but that's just a very temporary solution.

 

I spoke with another agent near immigration and I can apply for an ED visa for 1 year, paying a decent amount upfront, no strings attached.

 

HOWEVER,

 

How big is the chance that the Thai embassy in Laos will deny my ED application?

(Once I pay the school, I'm pretty sure they won't refund me if my visa gets denied).

 

The remark in my passport clearly says 'a' visa, it doesn't explicitly say a tourist visa.

 

Edited by dennis123
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The long term visa situation in Thailand for people under 50 is not good and not fair...I dont have a good answer for you but I will say your luck with visa juggling might run out one of these days.....

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1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I would do the application at a different embassy or consulate since they are the ones that did the stamp.

If your application was not accepted at one location you could try at another one or get a new passport.

Thanks, that are some good ideas.

 

How would getting a new passport work? I have a business passport that's valid for another eight years or so and 30+ empty pages. If I report it as lost or stolen wouldn't they only provide an emergency passport and force me to go back to Holland to apply for a new one or can that all be taken care of at any Dutch embassy?

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50 minutes ago, dennis123 said:

Thanks, that are some good ideas.

How would getting a new passport work? I have a business passport that's valid for another eight years or so and 30+ empty pages. If I report it as lost or stolen wouldn't they only provide an emergency passport and force me to go back to Holland to apply for a new one or can that all be taken care of at any Dutch embassy?

Most countries will issue a new passport no matter how much validity you have left on your current passport if you apply for it and pay the fee. 

No need to say it was lost, stolen or to damage it to get a new one.

Not sure if Holland has some rule that you cannot apply for a new passport early.

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1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Most countries will issue a new passport no matter how much validity you have left on your current passport if you apply for it pay the fee. 

No need to say it was lost, stolen or to damage it to get a new one.

Not sure if Holland has some rule that you cannot apply for a new passport early.

Nationals have a New Passport Dispenser at their Airport. it fascinated me when i saw it. Thought i was being April Fooled. Put old one in get new.

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7 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Nationals have a New Passport Dispenser at their Airport. it fascinated me when i saw it. Thought i was being April Fooled. Put old one in get new.

Not sure what you are trying to say. But I think you are just posting nonsense as a joke.

Perhaps you could post a clarification of what you are writing about.

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12 hours ago, dennis123 said:

I've been living in Thailand for a while, first at a mix of ED (two times 1-year) and tourist visas but I changed my passport twice because both are full of visa stamps.

 

My new passport has 6 single-entry tourist visas and the last one has a remark that reads:

 

"The holder of this passport travels to Thailand under a tourist visa several times, which may result in the refusal of a visa in the future"

 

My last tourist visa was denied right away in Vientiane, the lady at the table checked my passport and said too many tourist visas.

Vientiane will not give you a TR Visa with that remark in your passport. 

Savannakhet might do so (did for me, in this case, but over 2 yrs ago), if you meet their other requirements - including bank-book proof of 20K Baht (can be other currency), proof of a flight or bus-ticket out of the country within 90-days, and proof of a hotel-booking or rental-contract.

 

Quote

I went to one of the agents outside there and they helped me to get back into Thailand with a 30-day visa on arrival because I came with my Thai registered car. 

You didn't need an agent's help.  All entry-points other than Poipet/Aranya will allow you to get a visa-exempt entry 2x per calendar year. 

Coming from Malaysia (only reported), you may also need to show 20K Baht worth of Cash or Travelers Checks, stay out overnight, and not have overstays in your record.

 

Quote

The 30 days are almost due and immigration told me I can extend it another 30 days, but that's just a very temporary solution.

30-day extensions are routine - rarely a problem.

 

Quote

I spoke with another agent near immigration and I can apply for an ED visa for 1 year, paying a decent amount upfront, no strings attached.

The school normally arranges the paperwork for an ED Visa application.  You may be paying extra for nothing using an agent (again, as with the visa-exempt entry, above). 

Be sure the school you select can get "hassle-free" extensions for you, or Immigration could punish you for not paying into the agent-money pipeline, with shorter-extensions, etc.  That is what the ED Visa "crackdown" was all about - increasing tea-money revenue.

 

Quote

HOWEVER,

 

How big is the chance that the Thai embassy in Laos will deny my ED application?

(Once I pay the school, I'm pretty sure they won't refund me if my visa gets denied).

 

The remark in my passport clearly says 'a' visa, it doesn't explicitly say a tourist visa.

Vientiane has not been reported to deny other types of Visas due to that "extra stamp" - only Tourist Visas.  That said, I would go to Savannakhet to apply, just to be sure.

 

You could also apply for a new passport, as others have suggested - but this is not necessary if going to ED.  If planning to stay here longer-term, I would get the ED in the existing passport first, use that route up (can get 2 ED Visas per language studied) - only getting a new passport before going back to Tourist Visa entries. 

 

Whenever you decide to apply for a new passport, be sure you have sufficient time-remaining on then-current permitted-stay to get it back in time.  There is no exception to overstay-rules for "The embassy hasn't gotten my new passport to me yet," - and overstays could harm your ability to enter Thailand in the future. 

Edited by JackThompson
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20 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure what you are trying to say. But I think you are just posting nonsense as a joke.

Perhaps you could post a clarification of what you are writing about.

Just asked Dutch Friend . I joke with You. That Machine u see was a Scanner . Fell for that one.!!

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You might find a school which will promise you in writing, a partial refund if you cannot get your visa. (I've seen service fees of 2000 baht).

I would never go with a school that says no refunds no exceptions. They don't all ask for the full fee up front either, especially in the case of smaller schools, so maybe you want to considering gambling that way. I see one school that starts the process for 5000 baht. Go in person to talk to them and explain your situation, rules regarding refunds can be bent to aquire business. Get it all in writing.

 

I would also follow Ubonjoe's advice.

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10 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Vientiane will not give you a TR Visa with that remark in your passport. 

Savannakhet might do so (did for me, in this case, but over 2 yrs ago), if you meet their other requirements - including bank-book proof of 20K Baht (can be other currency), proof of a flight or bus-ticket out of the country within 90-days, and proof of a hotel-booking or rental-contract.

 

You didn't need an agent's help.  All entry-points other than Poipet/Aranya will allow you to get a visa-exempt entry 2x per calendar year. 

Coming from Malaysia (only reported), you may also need to show 20K Baht worth of Cash or Travelers Checks, stay out overnight, and not have overstays in your record.

 

30-day extensions are routine - rarely a problem.

 

The school normally arranges the paperwork for an ED Visa application.  You may be paying extra for nothing using an agent (again, as with the visa-exempt entry, above). 

Be sure the school you select can get "hassle-free" extensions for you, or Immigration could punish you for not paying into the agent-money pipeline, with shorter-extensions, etc.  That is what the ED Visa "crackdown" was all about - increasing tea-money revenue.

 

Vientiane has not been reported to deny other types of Visas due to that "extra stamp" - only Tourist Visas.  That said, I would go to Savannakhet to apply, just to be sure.

 

You could also apply for a new passport, as others have suggested - but this is not necessary if going to ED.  If planning to stay here longer-term, I would get the ED in the existing passport first, use that route up (can get 2 ED Visas per language studied) - only getting a new passport before going back to Tourist Visa entries. 

 

Whenever you decide to apply for a new passport, be sure you have sufficient time-remaining on then-current permitted-stay to get it back in time.  There is no exception to overstay-rules for "The embassy hasn't gotten my new passport to me yet," - and overstays could harm your ability to enter Thailand in the future. 

4

Thanks Jack, I figured with all those tourist visa stamps and reports about only getting 15 days at land borders plus the fact that I had my car with me might result in a refusal of entry so I paid one of those agents some money to walk me through but I had some doubts indeed.

 

As for the ED visa agent, they take care of everything, that includes extending every three months, just need to drop off my passport, tea money included, and no need to attend school. Now that I say that I'm a little doubtful about just dropping off my passport as I think they do take a photo every three months. Last time when I had an ED visa there was a special arrangement as well that made extensions a lot easier, though a little more expensive 😉

 

Yeah I will definitely go to Savannakhet firrst.

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Formaleins said:

This is one of the reasons we are seeing the continuing tightening of the visa and visa extension rules - People are basically abusing / fiddling their way to get a visa! I agree it is not easy to stay here long term if you are under 50 and not married to a Thai, but the continuing abuse of the ED visa is eventually going to ruin it for the people who genuinely need it.

The visa and permission to stay has been abused for years, often by the border run brigade,so over the years the Thais have cracked down on it, so people move on and find a new way to abuse the system.

 

There are a number of genuine routes that you can go down for long term stay - Continuous ED Visas and tourist visas is NOT one of them. All that will happen in the end is it will make life even worse for those people who try to live here and follow the rules. You have to ask yourself WHY am I forced to change my passport to visit a country? Well, because you are abusing the rules and now have a big stamp in your passport to verify that!

It has been working fine for the past 7 years but I made one mistake, I visited the embassy in Vientiane a few times too often thanks to the zero requirements. Unlike Phnom Penh, all they need is a filled out form and copy passport (no ticket, no bank book, no hotel reservation or rental contract required), and it's a quick in and out, in Cambodia I often have to wait 2-3 days. It's not like I can't produce those papers but had some personal circumstances so didn't want to waste to much time on it.

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1 hour ago, dennis123 said:

Speaking of which, would it be wise to pick a different school then the one I used previously (2 old ED visas in my first passport, 4-5 years ago).

It's ED Visas in your current passport that would be an issue at the consulate.  They added new rules on this at Vientiane (which could also apply at Savannakhet) limiting ED Visas to one-per-year.   It seems people were getting ED Visas but not paying schools/agents for extensions - instead going out for more Visas - which would cut into agent-tea-money.   But your 4-5 year-ago EDs wouldn't count under that rule, anyway.

 

As to future extensions, that is up to whatever records exist with Immigration (I don't know if any), and/or what your agent can arrange.  With all but the most basic aspects of extensions, an officer of a certain rank can override things - so if the agent has a deal with him/her, there won't be an issue.

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Netherlands passports what the difference in business passport and personal passport? USA has only one expect for maybe Diplomats. 

 

What is your reason for wanting to stay in Thailand. You’ve used a couple different types of visas. 

 

If yiur reason is legitimate get the visa it visa it pertains to. If it’s teaching you’ll need a work permit also. 

 

These days if they catch you dicking the system they might blacklist you.

 

good luck

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40 minutes ago, Ctkong said:

Basically if you are under 50, you can’t get a ‘retirement visa’ and if you are too poor to afford a Thai elite visa, you have no options other than to try to do what the op did . I do wish him the best of luck ... 

Exactly, the options are very limited, I’m in the same boat, under 50 but want to stay here for a few years before I’m returning back home to my country and continue studies.

 

so tourist visa or ed visa are some options + visa exemption.

 

now after crackdown on crackdown, for those who “abuse the system “the government should have some new visas to offer for those under 50 so we can have a easier time here.

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3 hours ago, dennis123 said:

Speaking of which, would it be wise to pick a different school then the one I used previously (2 old ED visas in my first passport, 4-5 years ago).

Surprised the IO didn't speak all Thai to you with 2 ED Visas in your passport, you should be fluent, or are you??

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2 hours ago, DJ54 said:

Netherlands passports what the difference in business passport and personal passport? USA has only one expect for maybe Diplomats. 

 

What is your reason for wanting to stay in Thailand. You’ve used a couple different types of visas. 

 

If yiur reason is legitimate get the visa it visa it pertains to. If it’s teaching you’ll need a work permit also. 

 

These days if they catch you dicking the system they might blacklist you.

 

good luck

The only difference is that it's more expensive and has almost twice the amount of pages, they call it a business passport because they assume that when people run out of pages in 2-3 years they must be doing a lot of business trips 😉

 

Reason to stay? Nothing particular, it helps that there are no casinos here, nice weather, modern enough while still affordable. I thought about moving to Laos but visa wise you would run into the same problems. Agents can arrange for a 1-year business visa in Laos for $1300/year, that gets you a work permit and anything else that's required for such visa, shell company and all that.

 

Because I've been here so long I don't want to eat rice every day and no matter what province you live here, there is always a Tops or a Tesco, Big C, or whatever where they sell western food, bakeries included. Hard to find that in Laos or Cambodia, outside Vientiane or Phnom Penh. I lived in Buriram for a year and they have almost the same luxuries you find at home, modern shopping mall, and what not.

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2 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

Surprised the IO didn't speak all Thai to you with 2 ED Visas in your passport, you should be fluent, or are you??

Sawadee khrab!

 

That was two passports ago.

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17 hours ago, Formaleins said:

This is one of the reasons we are seeing the continuing tightening of the visa and visa extension rules - People are basically abusing / fiddling their way to get a visa! I agree it is not easy to stay here long term if you are under 50 and not married to a Thai, but the continuing abuse of the ED visa is eventually going to ruin it for the people who genuinely need it.

The visa and permission to stay has been abused for years, often by the border run brigade,so over the years the Thais have cracked down on it, so people move on and find a new way to abuse the system.

 

There are a number of genuine routes that you can go down for long term stay - Continuous ED Visas and tourist visas is NOT one of them. All that will happen in the end is it will make life even worse for those people who try to live here and follow the rules. You have to ask yourself WHY am I forced to change my passport to visit a country? Well, because you are abusing the rules and now have a big stamp in your passport to verify that!

6

They came up with a fast-lane / priority extension service and invited all 'students' to make use of that 😉 It said something like that there would be routine checks and if you had other business to attend you could pay a small fee so that it didn't affect your study. Something along those lines lol.

Edited by dennis123
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6 hours ago, dennis123 said:
8 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

Surprised the IO didn't speak all Thai to you with 2 ED Visas in your passport, you should be fluent, or are you??

Sawadee khrab! 

 

That was two passports ago.

FYI: Many study different languages using ED Visas.  Any language offered, other than your home-country language, is permitted.  If any records of Thai study being "complete" are an issue, you could study Russian, Chinese, etc.

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35 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

FYI: Many study different languages using ED Visas.  Any language offered, other than your home-country language, is permitted.  If any records of Thai study being "complete" are an issue, you could study Russian, Chinese, etc.

 

Really? I've been in Thailand for 15 years now..and i have yet to meet someone who obtained an ed visa to study Chinese, Russian..or any other language than Thai. Have you? If so please let us know which school do provide these ed visas. I would love to "study" English, as my passport is from a non english speaking country and im currently looking into getting an ed visa.

Edited by 3stan
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31 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

FYI: Many study different languages using ED Visas.  Any language offered, other than your home-country language, is permitted.  If any records of Thai study being "complete" are an issue, you could study Russian, Chinese, etc.

I wanna study English 😜

How can anyone tell what my first language is? In my country Spanish is often the first language, I speak some Spanish. Think it'll fly?

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6 minutes ago, 3stan said:

 

Really? Been in Thailand 15 years now..and i have yet to meet someone who obtained an ed visa to study Chinese, Russian..or any other language than Thai. Have you?

I don't know of anyone but I believe I have seen the visa offered for other languages.

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3 minutes ago, YogaVeg said:

I don't know of anyone but I believe I have seen the visa offered for other languages.

Yes yes, i have heard this also on forums..but never had anyone back up that info with anything tangible.

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