Outside tiling - sand and cement or adhesive ?

[chickenslegs]

10 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

The alu strip is wide ( 35 mm ) and won’t look too good but I do plan to put a smaller strip round the posts of a similar colour to the tiles.

I was thinking about this type of edging strip (or the rounded version), installed with the 'arrowed' edge pointing downwards into the cement - so that the strip covers any rough edges.

[Andrew Dwyer]

I was thinking about this type of edging strip (or the rounded version), installed with the 'arrowed' edge pointing downwards into the cement - so that the strip covers any rough edges.

Yes that would work.
I see the majority of the edging strips just butt up to the tile and not actually overlap the tile.
But using it as you suggest will work well and cover my dodgy cuts.

I will try and cut it neatly but I imagine cutting into a 90 degree corner will be a little fiddly.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[Kwasaki]

48 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

I have a small De Walt grinder and discs for steel and stone etc.

Good tool just right the job in hand.

I will give you a like. ????

[chickenslegs]

3 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

I will try and cut it neatly but I imagine cutting into a 90 degree corner will be a little fiddly.

 

Mitre the joints would be neatest.

[cooked]

6 hours ago, fredob43 said:

Tiles for your information have bevelled edges. Doing it your way you will get strait edges on the out side, but the cut bit will be rough and will cause a problem as they wont taper. Leaving the inside edge sticking up. That's unless you lift the outer edge. That will lead to water not draining. I don't know if you know but a cut on a tile will be very sharp and you can cut yourself very easily unless you lift the outer edges, then you will have a water draining problem. Also the pattern won't match.

I wouldn't know about that, my experience is limited to a few hundred square metres of tile laying.

Just for your information.

[Andrew Dwyer]

17 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

Mitre the joints would be neatest.

Yes, I meant cutting the tile sq hole with 90 degrees ???? hence the strip to cover up whatever abortion I made!

[Andrew Dwyer]

I was thinking about this type of edging strip (or the rounded version), installed with the 'arrowed' edge pointing downwards into the cement - so that the strip covers any rough edges.

This one should do nicely, matching the wood effect tiles.

[Chopperboy]

23 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

A small grinder is not expensive and no need for diamond disc just use the ordinary stone cutting disc.

All stone cutting discs are diamond..  Duh

[KMartinHandyman]

All stone cutting discs are diamond..  Duh

Except the ones that aren’t, called composite or abrasive.

[Andrew Dwyer]

Quick question for the tilers amongst you ( don’t go fighting between yourselves again I’m not worth it ) !!

The holes for the posts will basically end up in this position on the tiles



Red shows the hole position.

Black dotted line is where I plan to split the tiles.

The sad thing is, I planned it this way for a reason ( long winded ) and now have changed my mind so could have put the posts out a little bit and saved myself some work.

Anyhoo , my question is as I only want to make a decent straight cut along the 4 tiles ( following the dotted line ) otherwise it’ll look a bugger if I cut it with a grinder and then butt it back together.
As I’ve said, the zip cutter for an 18” tile are expensive and ott for cutting 4 tiles !!

Sooo, what about if I buy a scoring wheel and use a steel rule as a guide to cut the tile. ??



Would this be a decent cut and look good after butting it back together round the posts ??

[kannot]

On 10/17/2018 at 12:00 PM, Kwasaki said:

If OP uses a 100mm disc small grinder that will do the job just takes some time and patients.

Personally for ease of progress I'd just square up to the poles and fill any gaps with grout after.

Better to cut them around the posts  although he might struggle, first centre up the whole floor area and lay out the  tiles to see where they come in regards to the poles, you can make a  card template for the  columns and try get the tiles to not fit a whole one in that area. Id  also get a tile  cutter (not elctric) theyll do a much neater and faster edge except for as mentioned  the circular areas. 

In true  Blue Peter style...............heres one i did earlier.

Jet wash the floor  first , then    seal it with PVA to get good  adhesion, most Thai tilers do  bugger  all and  lost count of the amount of  tiles Ive seen loose.

Experience, 30+ years laying tiles for other people..........amongst other things

The adhesive I use here is in 20-25kilo bags WEBER is the  brand  name 

Use  tile spacers (Boonthavorn) dont butt em up to each other, as a newbie  it  will give you  more room for  errors.

Most important TAKE YOUR TIME as youll be looking at it for many years.

And  just for Kwasaki  get it all delivered in A Colorado ( comes with free spanner)

Edited October 19, 2018 by kannot

[kannot]

27 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Quick question for the tilers amongst you ( don’t go fighting between yourselves again I’m not worth it ) !!

The holes for the posts will basically end up in this position on the tiles



Red shows the hole position.

Black dotted line is where I plan to split the tiles.

The sad thing is, I planned it this way for a reason ( long winded ) and now have changed my mind so could have put the posts out a little bit and saved myself some work.

Anyhoo , my question is as I only want to make a decent straight cut along the 4 tiles ( following the dotted line ) otherwise it’ll look a bugger if I cut it with a grinder and then butt it back together.
As I’ve said, the zip cutter for an 18” tile are expensive and ott for cutting 4 tiles !!

Sooo, what about if I buy a scoring wheel and use a steel rule as a guide to cut the tile. ??



Would this be a decent cut and look good after butting it back together round the posts ??

Have a challenge..............lay em diagonally, if theres  no gap and you have to trim off a bit it would  look better

[kannot]

29 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Quick question for the tilers amongst you ( don’t go fighting between yourselves again I’m not worth it ) !!

The holes for the posts will basically end up in this position on the tiles



Red shows the hole position.

Black dotted line is where I plan to split the tiles.

The sad thing is, I planned it this way for a reason ( long winded ) and now have changed my mind so could have put the posts out a little bit and saved myself some work.

Anyhoo , my question is as I only want to make a decent straight cut along the 4 tiles ( following the dotted line ) otherwise it’ll look a bugger if I cut it with a grinder and then butt it back together.
As I’ve said, the zip cutter for an 18” tile are expensive and ott for cutting 4 tiles !!

Sooo, what about if I buy a scoring wheel and use a steel rule as a guide to cut the tile. ??



Would this be a decent cut and look good after butting it back together round the posts ??

Or stop short of the column  and  put some in a pattern around it as a border at a different angle ie diagonally.make it a feature

[kannot]

23 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

This one should do nicely, matching the wood effect tiles.

Id avoid plastic in the sun it may go brittle and snap later, metal might be better

[kannot]

4 hours ago, KMartinHandyman said:

Except the ones that aren’t, called composite or abrasive.

Floor tiles are way harder than wall  tiles, this type  struggle on floor  tiles Ive found here.

[kannot]

On 10/17/2018 at 2:29 PM, Chopperboy said:

Watch on Youtube for how to cut round holes with an angle grinder. 

 

I am a perfectionist, so I take tiles like that to the local waterjet cutting shop but it needs a accurate CAD file drawn of what they are to cut.

If you take your  time and put NO weight on the blade you can cut round holes fairly easily, but you need to be gentle,  not for the feint hearted if you havent done  much tiling

[KMartinHandyman]

Why not make the green line cuts with your hand grinder and then drop the yellow x fill piece in? You’ll have two short seams cut on the factory black pattern line.

[KMartinHandyman]

Why not make the green line cuts with your hand grinder and then drop the yellow x fill piece in? You’ll have two short seams cut on the factory black pattern line.

[kannot]

3 minutes ago, KMartinHandyman said:

Why not make the green line cuts with your hand grinder and then drop the yellow x fill piece in? You’ll have two short seams cut on the factory black pattern line.

Or could lift the roof  off as mentioned ,  but that way you show would be the least bad, but for me not ideal. Heres  a square hole cut in a tile I did without breaking it,nerves of steel required

[Andrew Dwyer]

26 minutes ago, kannot said:

Better to cut them around the posts  although he might struggle, first centre up the whole floor area and lay out the  tiles to see where they come in regards to the poles, you can make a  card template for the  columns and try get the tiles to not fit a whole one in that area. Id  also get a tile  cutter (not elctric) theyll do a much neater and faster edge except for as mentioned  the circular areas. 

In true  Blue Peter style...............heres one i did earlier.

Jet wash the floor  first , then    seal it with PVA to get good  adhesion, most Thai tilers do  bugger  all and  lost count of the amount of  tiles Ive seen loose.

Experience, 30+ years laying tiles for other people..........amongst other things

The adhesive I use here is in 20-25kilo bags WEBER is the  brand  name 

Use  tile spacers (Boonthavorn) dont butt em up to each other, as a newbie  it  will give you  more room for  errors.

Most important TAKE YOUR TIME as youll be looking at it for many years.

And  just for Kwasaki  get it all delivered in A Colorado ( comes with free spanner)

Yup, I made the slab to fit 7 x 7 18” tiles with a 35 mm alu strip all the way round the top edge and also down the corners into the gravel.

If I juggle the pattern around I might make life easier round the posts but end up cutting a lot more tiles elsewhere.

 

I’ve seen errors in tiling where they haven’t planned it out beforehand and ended up with a tiny strip along one wall, if there is any out of sq then that strip looks awful !

So I plan  to make it finish with full tiles and avoid cutting as much as possible. ( obviously pretty easy to do when it’s a slab, errors in squareness can be corrected with concrete).

 

My only regret is putting the posts where I did for a reason that isn’t important now.

I have a 2 metre blackout roller blind from IKEA ( to stop sun into my lounge ) that works a treat and planned to put a couple on the posts as at 3.30/4.00 pm the sun is in your face ! My house faces West.

But have abandoned that now as I have a better idea !

[Andrew Dwyer]

29 minutes ago, KMartinHandyman said:

Why not make the green line cuts with your hand grinder and then drop the yellow x fill piece in? You’ll have two short seams cut on the factory black pattern line.

Yes, I like that thanks, I’ll give that a go, should end up with 2 short cuts which will be partially covered by the strip.

[Andrew Dwyer]

43 minutes ago, kannot said:

Id avoid plastic in the sun it may go brittle and snap later, metal might be better

Good thinking ! 

Thanks .

[rumak]

On 10/17/2018 at 1:19 PM, Andrew Dwyer said:

But fully expect that it won’t turn out as i hoped.

Now that is a GREAT attitude !  not being sarcastic.  I do many small projects myself , some pretty good and most not so bad.  Sometimes less stressful than watching someone else mess it up..or me having to direct.

Suggestion:   don't leave any air spaces under any tile as that is where it will crack 

[rumak]

50 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Yup, I made the slab to fit 7 x 7 18” tiles with a 35 mm alu strip all the way round the top edge and also down the corners into the gravel.

If I juggle the pattern around I might make life easier round the posts but end up cutting a lot more tiles elsewhere.

 

I’ve seen errors in tiling where they haven’t planned it out beforehand and ended up with a tiny strip along one wall, if there is any out of sq then that strip looks awful !

So I plan  to make it finish with full tiles and avoid cutting as much as possible. ( obviously pretty easy to do when it’s a slab, errors in squareness can be corrected with concrete).

 

My only regret is putting the posts where I did for a reason that isn’t important now.

I have a 2 metre blackout roller blind from IKEA ( to stop sun into my lounge ) that works a treat and planned to put a couple on the posts as at 3.30/4.00 pm the sun is in your face ! My house faces West.

But have abandoned that now as I have a better idea !

nice work !  are you free this saturday ?     i know, i couldn't afford you  ????

oh, this is directed to Kannot.....whose pics are shown .  

Edited October 19, 2018 by rumak

[Don Chance]

Tiles should have a water proof membrane underneath or they will fail over time.

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Don Chance

[Andrew Dwyer]

Now that is a GREAT attitude !  not being sarcastic.  I do many small projects myself , some pretty good and most not so bad.  Sometimes less stressful than watching someone else mess it up..or me having to direct.
Suggestion:   don't leave any air spaces under any tile as that is where it will crack 

Yes, I do prefer to do it myself, I’m very slow but I always do a reasonable job ( IMO), I get a great deal of satisfaction from producing something myself. My gf ( and ex wives) don’t seem to see it that way, they just want it done !!

I’m from a mechanical engineering background where to work in .001” and .0001” ( later on mícrons) increments is the norm so I tend to fart around a lot trying to get something as good as I can.

But you can’t beat standing back and admiring your own handiwork !!

I’ll still use local labour for things that are over my head, welding, electrical work etc etc.

I bought another 88 m2 of the same tile to do the car port and walkway round the house but I’m gonna leave this to someone who knows what they’re doing [emoji51]

[Andrew Dwyer]

Just a little update ( in anyone is remotely interested [emoji848] ).

Started fitting the tiles, started in the middle and have 5 x 5 rows done including the cut tiles round the posts.
Split the tiles along one of the lines already on the tiles then cut out the “u” shape with the grinder, went fairly quick and easy.

Went with sand and cement mixed with Weber adhesive ( 3:1 ) and so far so good.

Splashed out on a cutter ( 1,166 baht from Home Mart for an 18” ) , not the worlds greatest but it works and buying a decent cutting wheel if required should be no reason why it won’t last forever ( or weeks at least [emoji51]).
Was surprised at the big variation in prices in the stores though, you can pay a lot of money if you want ( I obviously didn’t [emoji4]). Can’t see justification for the real expensive ones, maybe it’s the extending feet supports that boost the baht up ?

Also bought a mitre box to cut strip round posts and edging.
Found a few old threads on here and it sounded dubious that I would find one !
BUT, perseverance is king in LOS and found one in MegaHome, with a shameful excuse for a 12” woodsaw , but reduced to 299 baht so shouldn’t complain .

Will post a photo or two after ( hope people stand the suspense !! ) a few days as I have to keep ‘er indoors ‘appy as well with some attention [emoji849]

[Prachiya]

I would go for sand and cement because not that adhesives are bad but they can lose strength in time when exposed to the weather. Whereas sand and cement has proven to be a durable option. 

[Andrew Dwyer]

I would go for sand and cement because not that adhesives are bad but they can lose strength in time when exposed to the weather. Whereas sand and cement has proven to be a durable option. 

In the end I went with sand and cement plus adhesive as I felt without adhesive it lacked a little stickiness.
I actually stuck a couple down with sand and cement only and then about 3 days later pulled them up and felt that they came up very easily, of course could have been they hadn’t bonded properly or I’d put them down too wet or too dry etc.
From what I’ve seen Thais will use sand and cement for the floor and adhesive for the walls ? But I could be wrong .

Bit of a learning curve for me, but am glad I did it .
Got another 75 sqm to go down but I’ll get someone in I think !!

Here’s the finished product.



( actually I have to paint the cement render on the roof still ☹️)