Venezuela's Maduro says Trump administration wants to have him killed

[JulesMad]

Maduro just might have a point... Fits trumpy's cowardly style perfectly.

 

However, it would be preferred if Maduro resigns (could save his life). Maybe an idea for trumpy as well?!?

[connda]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Socialist Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro accused the Trump administration on Thursday of seeking to assassinate him, as relations strain between the ideologically opposed nations.

That's probably an accurate assessment considering the number of US foreign policy wonks who are currently discussing the need for 'regime change' in Venezuela.  Of course, the US would never interfere with the affairs of another sovereign country.  Only Russia and China do that. 

Anyway, socialism is a self-correcting problem.  How many refugees do you see fleeing to autocratic, socialist nations? 

Edited October 12, 2018 by connda

[billd766]

4 hours ago, klauskunkel said:

his human shields 

Just like the ones that Trump and most other country leaders have.

[Pedrogaz]

Say what you like about Maduro, he's got a very good handle on reality. The uS wants to kill all the foreign leader it doesn't like. If you want to not be killed by the US, just suck up to them and do everything they ask of you. Simples.

[Pedrogaz]

6 hours ago, canopus1969 said:

Yes  

Probably the candidate for the most stupid comment ever in the history of the internet. I'm glad it was short.

[sanuk711]

n

Edited October 12, 2018 by sanuk711

[stevenl]

26 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Probably the candidate for the most stupid comment ever in the history of the internet. I'm glad it was short.

It is his opinion. I disagree with it, you seem to disagree, but calling it stupid is out of order.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It's generally a good policy. But there might be exceptions. Maduro might be one of them. He has not only messed up his own country, the refugee crisis he has directly caused is a threat to all of Latin America. 

But what has that got to do with the USA?

[watcharacters]

9 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

I think the US is waiting until they totally bottom out. Then America will be the liberators and saviors. Helping them put a new system in place with US oversight for their own good. 

 

What's wrong with that?     

[billd766]

8 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

What's wrong with that?     

Who gives the USA the right to change the regime in ANY country?

 

It is for the people of Venezuela in this case to decide, not some tin pot dictator sitting in the White House.

[CanuckThai]

9 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

I think the US is waiting until they totally bottom out. Then America will be the liberators and saviors. Helping them put a new system in place with US oversight for their own good. 

That might be a better situation, than China moving in and financing a rebuild and and recovery.  The timing is juicy for an overthrow, and a new and improved authoritarian regime....

[Tug]

I’m sure Donald would love to see the guy rubbed out then move on their oil under the guise (helping)Personally I would like to see us help them out with no strings attached to foster better relations but I guess I’m a dreamer

[Jingthing]

But what has that got to do with the USA?

What has Ukraine got to do with Russia?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

Who gives the USA the right to change the regime in ANY country?
 
It is for the people of Venezuela in this case to decide, not some tin pot dictator sitting in the White House.

They want him out. Their hands are tied. Duh.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[watcharacters]

57 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Who gives the USA the right to change the regime in ANY country?

 

It is for the people of Venezuela in this case to decide, not some tin pot dictator sitting in the White House.

 

555

 

Sit back and enjoy a cold one,  bro.

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by watcharacters

[underlordcthulhu]

I'm sick and tired of the US sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong. We're not the world's police.

[farcanell]

59 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

What has Ukraine got to do with Russia?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Centuries worth of historical interaction, as a state, a client state or protectorate, I would think, if my history of the expansion of the Russian state, over the last thousand years, is anywhere near correct.

 

to underscore the point, ask the person next to you were Kiev is... dollars to donuts the answer will be Russia.

 

This long history, albeit not all rosy, is something that the US simply does not have with Venezuela, so any attempt at a comparison deserves derision.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Centuries worth of historical interaction, as a state, a client state or protectorate, I would think, if my history of the expansion of the Russian state, over the last thousand years, is anywhere near correct.

 

to underscore the point, ask the person next to you were Kiev is... dollars to donuts the answer will be Russia.

 

This long history, albeit not all rosy, is something that the US simply does not have with Venezuela, so any attempt at a comparison deserves derision.

Don't get anal about it. Historically Latin America has always been in the USA's sphere of influence. That's been largely negative. But this isn't about history. It's about today's Venezuela. That piece of garbage bloody dictator Maduro has got to go! He is not a legitimate leader so don't act like he's the choice of the people. Of course it's best if the overthrow is domestic but honestly if Washington lends a discreet helping hand, I don't see the harm. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Jingthing

[farcanell]

11 minutes ago, underlordcthulhu said:

I'm sick and tired of the US sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong. We're not the world's police.

The US post World War Two, set themselves up in the role of the world police, fully participating in rebuilding both japan and Germany, whilst being key in establishing mechanisms for peaceful progress and security.... so your forebears wanted this... blame them

 

That said, withdrawing from international politics is fine... MAGA and all that crap... but in doing so, trump is seemingly intent on destroying all that has gone before... but hey, one bone fide way of creating a superior state, (per yall’s wish) is to destroy all other states.... thanks a lot Donald!

[underlordcthulhu]

4 minutes ago, farcanell said:

The US post World War Two, set themselves up in the role of the world police, fully participating in rebuilding both japan and Germany, whilst being key in establishing mechanisms for peaceful progress and security.... so your forebears wanted this... blame them

 

That said, withdrawing from international politics is fine... MAGA and all that crap... but in doing so, trump is seemingly intent on destroying all that has gone before... but hey, one bone fide way of creating a superior state, (per yall’s wish) is to destroy all other states.... thanks a lot Donald!

I didn't have a part in the past nor can I change it. We can only make a change in the now.

[farcanell]

3 minutes ago, underlordcthulhu said:

I didn't have a part in the past nor can I change it. We can only make a change in the now.

You may have had no part in it, but your country did.... and deliberately so.

 

To forcefully withdraw from the functioning mechanisms that have been established for regional and world stability and peace, without participating responsibly in alternative mechanism, is beyond reckless

 

What if, when trump gets deposed, he has a bonefire, destroying all official documents in the US archives... would that be a good way to usher in the next POTUS. (Swap out trumps name in the above statement, with any former POTUS, if you like... The who of it is irrelevant... it’s the how of it, that’s important)

 

responsibly... or not... that is something that you can effect... that is something that you can help change... help shape... for posterities sake, if not for that of your children and mine

[underlordcthulhu]

6 minutes ago, farcanell said:

You may have had no part in it, but your country did.... and deliberately so.

 

To forcefully withdraw from the functioning mechanisms that have been established for regional and world stability and peace, without participating responsibly in alternative mechanism, is beyond reckless

 

What if, when trump gets deposed, he has a bonefire, destroying all official documents in the US archives... would that be a good way to usher in the next POTUS. (Swap out trumps name in the above statement, with any former POTUS, if you like... The who of it is irrelevant... it’s the how of it, that’s important)

 

responsibly... or not... that is something that you can effect... that is something that you can help change... help shape... for posterities sake, if not for that of your children and mine

Let me just get straight to the point, as this seems to be veering off topic. 

I am not for the murdering of foreign leaders. 

[farcanell]

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Don't get anal about it. Historically Latin America has always been in the USA's sphere of influence. That's been largely negative. But this isn't about history. It's about today's Venezuela. That piece of garbage bloody dictator Maduro has got to go! He is not a legitimate leader so don't act like he's the choice of the people. Of course it's best if the overthrow is domestic but honestly if Washington lends a discreet helping hand, I don't see the harm. 

Historically Latin America has not been in the USs sphere of influence, it has been Spain’s ... that’s why they speak Spanish.

 

Sure... this changed as Spain waned.... but now your into modern history.... which is to say that historically, this sphere you talk of, is new.... unlike the sphere of influence twist Russia and Ukraine, which was your example,for inexplicable reasons.

 

My apologies if you see my previous post as anal.... and I completely agree that dictators should be deposed, but this is just one dictator of many that are still around today, by one name or another, and it’s hypocritical to pick and choose between them.

[farcanell]

7 minutes ago, underlordcthulhu said:

Let me just get straight to the point, as this seems to be veering off topic. 

I am not for the murdering of foreign leaders. 

Good to know mi lord... but my point was not that you would support such a notion, but that you, personally, can effect a peaceful change from your countries previous privledged position as the world police, to another’s country, or another mechanism that would achieve this same / similar level of world stability.

 

By all means, jump out of the bath, but don’t pull the plug.

 

and yer, you expanded the topic to include the US role as world police... I followed that down the worm hole... my bad.

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Historically Latin America has not been in the USs sphere of influence, it has been Spain’s ... that’s why they speak Spanish.

 

Sure... this changed as Spain waned.... but now your into modern history.... which is to say that historically, this sphere you talk of, is new.... unlike the sphere of influence twist Russia and Ukraine, which was your example,for inexplicable reasons.

 

My apologies if you see my previous post as anal.... and I completely agree that dictators should be deposed, but this is just one dictator of many that are still around today, by one name or another, and it’s hypocritical to pick and choose between them.

Sure thing, dude.

He's not just another dictator. In the Americas, forgetting "trump" who is an autocrat wannabe and is indeed a dangerous buffoon but will likely accept being voted out, there isn't anyone comparable to the destructive level of Maduro, and as I said before, not only in his own country.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Jingthing

[underlordcthulhu]

10 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Good to know mi lord... but my point was not that you would support such a notion, but that you, personally, can effect a peaceful change from your countries previous privledged position as the world police, to another’s country, or another mechanism that would achieve this same / similar level of world stability.

 

By all means, jump out of the bath, but don’t pull the plug.

 

and yer, you expanded the topic to include the US role as world police... I followed that down the worm hole... my bad.

That's fair. I didn't mean to expand the topic to include everything that world policing would touch on but only to the extent of taking down foreign leaders.

[farcanell]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Sure thing, dude.

He's not just another dictator. In the Americas, forgetting "trump" who is an autocrat wannabe and is indeed a dangerous buffoon but will likely accept being voted out, there isn't anyone comparable to the destructive level of Maduro, and as I said before, not only in his own country.

Thanks... I couldn’t be bothered finding a link to prove the point that the US’s sphere of influence was relatively modern, esp in light of the equivalence that you were offering.

 

You did note the dates on this map, right?

 

and where did I limit the existence of dictators to Latin America? I did not, and nor was I referencing another dictatorial regime, specifically.... I was simply pointing out that trump is cherry picking which dictatorial entities to persecute.... today, seemingly, it Venezuela... who knows what tomorrow will bring.

 

i guess it’s all a question of which side of the bed he gets out of, come the morning 

Edited October 12, 2018 by farcanell

[Jingthing]

Yes I agree "trump" tends to like most dictators. I don't think he should like any of them. But he's a strange orange bird. If "trump" wants Maduro out I'm going to agree with him on that while at the same time detesting him and knowing he shouldn't have been allowed within 100 miles of the oval office. 

[MyFriend You]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You asked someone else, but in some EXTREME cases -- sure, why not? It's rational to argue that Maduro is an extreme case. 

 

Yes, I'm aware of the dirty history of U.S. imperialism in Latin America, but that still doesn't mean it's not possible for a leader to be so destructive that drastic measures might be the best answer.

In a couple of words  "United Fruit Company, Starkist, Chicken of the Sea, Exon Mobile'  you name it - they were in Latin America - I was posted to Caracas in 2009-2010 - there were more retired rich Americans living there then we could count.  They had food back then, you could buy anything, but it was spiraling downhill even before Chaves died, it became worse after he did.  Venezuelans are beautiful people, too bad the Government is f'd up.  We should have dropped him a long time ago, by now, the world would have forgotten about it.

[MyFriend You]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

But what has that got to do with the USA?

Read history, the USA Built Venezuela, in the 60's, 70's and 80's you name the fast food, American product, American company - it was in Caracas, American Oil Company's got the crap oil out of Venezuela, refined it, and sent it back for sale - for a price of course.  I was there in  2009-2010 and gas was 8 cents a gallon, I had duel tanks on my Ford Pickup truck - I could fill up 44 gallons, for less than $5.00, try that anywhere else in the world - I felt guilty driving away from the gas stations.  The Venezuelans prospered back then, it was only when Chavez (US Trained, he went to our Infantry, Airborne, Command & General Staff College in the States and the School of the Americas..........in Panama.  History lesson for the day.