Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats

[kensisaket]

23 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Why would you be getting the TT rate, its not a telegraphic transfer (account to account), it would be the ATM rate or the credit card cash advance rate. 

If you use an ATM or over the counter, its the ATM rate or you can elect to (if the counter withdrawal offers) continue without the ATM conversion rate, then its the credit/debit card provider rate. Either way its a very low rate compared to TT rate or cash rate. A payment or a withdrawal with a credit/debit card is never the TT rate. Yes its convenient and you save the ATM fees but on a large withdrawal you are probably a few thousand baht worse off ,due to the low exchange rate.

I transferred over $40,000 USD that way this summer; so, I do have a factual reference.  Making a CASH ADVANCE on a debit card is no different than walking into a bank with cash in hand; and, exchanging it.  

[soalbundy]

14 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

If affidavits are acceptable to immigration why involve any embassies /consulates. The same statement could be completed in front of the IO when making the extension application.

''I swear by almighty Buddha, er how much is this going to cost, 20k right, that the declaration I have made, er that's enough right, is true''  Jesus, not an asp in sight. Even the Thais don't trust their own officials, besides which the French, Dutch, German embassies can read their citizens documents supporting their claims.

[HHTel]

I personally think there are lots of scaremongers here.  Thai immigration have not made any statement to date.  Until they do, everything is just speculation.

I'm sure, in time, the authorities are going to find a workable solution.  We'll just have to wait and see.

[sambum]

1 minute ago, HHTel said:

I personally think there are lots of scaremongers here.  Thai immigration have not made any statement to date.  Until they do, everything is just speculation.

I'm sure, in time, the authorities are going to find a workable solution.  We'll just have to wait and see.

Sorry, but if you are not aware, the problem is not really Thai Immigration - IT'S THE BRITISH EMBASSY!

 

[HHTel]

1 minute ago, sambum said:

Sorry, but if you are not aware, the problem is not really Thai Immigration - IT'S THE BRITISH EMBASSY!

 

That is not what is being reported.  The BE has stated that after meetings in May where the Thai Immigration authority stated a requirement for income quoted in letters have to be verified by the embassy.  The embassy is unable to do this for various reasons and have withdrawn the letters because they can't meet the requirements of the authorities here.

If indeed that is true, and we don't know that it isn't, then it's not the fault of the BE.

[Expattaff1308]

19 minutes ago, HHTel said:

That is not what is being reported.  The BE has stated that after meetings in May where the Thai Immigration authority stated a requirement for income quoted in letters have to be verified by the embassy.  The embassy is unable to do this for various reasons and have withdrawn the letters because they can't meet the requirements of the authorities here.

If indeed that is true, and we don't know that it isn't, then it's not the fault of the BE.

and the BE then advice us to use Bank Statements to prove deposits into our Thai Bank Accounts. If you have read the numerous threads you would have seen that all of us who have contacted our local Immigration Offices to seek this alternative to the Embassy Letter have been met with confusion and a straight NO...Cannot use Bank Statements, Put 400/800k in Bank and get a Bank Letter.

If as you say its not the fault of the Embassy then they need to be negotiating with Immigration to find a successful alternative and not pluck ideas out of the air as they dont seem to understand the needs of Imm by those attempting to gain an extension of stay.

That said it has also been reported that is nothing to do with Immigration but a FCO Audit, where the auditor may have asked if there is an alternative for expats to prove their income and as reported on their website they respond with a Yes - Bank Statements - So the auditor suggests doing away with the Letters.

But as we all know Statements are NOT the alternative being allowed by Immigration.

Now who is to blame for giving poor and false advice to their nationals...Hmmm certainly not the Thais

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Expattaff1308

[HHTel]

1 minute ago, Expattaff1308 said:

and the BE then advice us to use Bank Statements to prove deposits into our Thai Bank Accounts. If you have read the numerous threads you would have seen that all of us who have contacted our local Immigration Offices to seek this alternative to the Embassy Letter have been met with confusion and a straight NO...Cannot use Bank Statements, Put 400/800k in Bank and get a Bank Letter.

If as you say its not the fault of the Embassy then they need to be negotiating with Immigration to a successful alternative and not pluck ideas out of the air as they dont seem to understand the needs of those attempting to gain an extension of stay.

I agree with the take by the BE on local immigration procedures.  That being said, local offices have yet to be informed/directed.  I'm sure that BKK immigration have only just been informed of the response to their demands to the BE.  As is usual here, it takes time for all depts to get up to speed.  As I've already said, we have to wait and see what the response is from Thai Immigration and I'm sure there will be a response.  Until that happens nothing everything is speculation.

I've spoken with a personal friend in immigration and he confirms that his staff have to wait for a directive from BKK which will take time.

[Expattaff1308]

Just now, HHTel said:

I agree with the take by the BE on local immigration procedures.  That being said, local offices have yet to be informed/directed.  I'm sure that BKK immigration have only just been informed of the response to their demands to the BE.  As is usual here, it takes time for all depts to get up to speed.  As I've already said, we have to wait and see what the response is from Thai Immigration and I'm sure there will be a response.  Until that happens nothing everything is speculation.

I've spoken with a personal friend in immigration and he confirms that his staff have to wait for a directive from BKK which will take time.

They had the so called meeting in May, more than enough time I think to get everyone upto speed.

[HHTel]

1 minute ago, Expattaff1308 said:

They had the so called meeting in May, more than enough time I think to get everyone upto speed.

And they couldn't respond immediately which is quite understandable.  They have to explore avenues in the hope they can satisfy the authorities here.  Conclusions take time.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Or what has been suggested of late a cost cutting exercise from a recent FCO Audit, where what may have happened is that the auditor asks is there any other way British Nationals can prove their income and received the answer yes thro Bank Statements which sounds more plausible as that is the advice we have been given by the BE along with the fact no other Embassy has withdrawn the Letter service so the auditor responds by saying ok then if they can do that we will stop the letters.

Maybe this, maybe that.

[Expattaff1308]

Just now, HHTel said:

And they couldn't respond immediately which is quite understandable.  They have to explore avenues in the hope they can satisfy the authorities here.  Conclusions take time.

I could accept that if the Embassy said they were discussing with Immigration an alternative but they havent they have said USE BANK STATEMENTS

[HHTel]

It'll 'all come out in the wash' in due course.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, sambum said:

Thank you for your reply, but it is being suggested that that option is also to be discontinued, as they are  "stretching the rules".

Probably already happening according to some guy in a bar in Soi Honey.

[HHTel]

3 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

I could accept that if the Embassy said they were discussing with Immigration an alternative but they havent they have said USE BANK STATEMENTS

Nobody knows whether that was the case.  I'm sure the decision has to come from the UK so it will have been discussed by the Home Office back in London.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, sambum said:

Do you not mean "It is the visa extension application process by the UK that is now being considered suspect by Thai Immigration"?

No.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, ParadiseLost said:

Hold on, I thought the reason why the letter is being discontinued is due to the Thai govt demanding the incomes are verified, not simply taken at the word of the applicant?

The UK officials here don't know anything about the visa process here and could not give a damn as they all have diplomatic passports... They were simply giving out unsubstantiated affidavits, like all/most embassies do I imagine.

The UK govt response should have been to laugh in their faces...

Yes to TI wanting verification. UK response is to discontinue the letter.

[Expattaff1308]

9 minutes ago, HHTel said:

Nobody knows whether that was the case.  I'm sure the decision has to come from the UK so it will have been discussed by the Home Office back in London.

Its on the embassy website and the Notary Officer said as much in a radio interview with Tommy Dee at Pattaya News

From the Embassy Website...

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Expattaff1308

[Joe Mcseismic]

39 minutes ago, sambum said:

Sorry, but if you are not aware, the problem is not really Thai Immigration - IT'S THE BRITISH EMBASSY!

 

No it's not. It's Thai immigration. They asked the BE to verify the income statements. It could have been any embassy, but, as chance would have it, it was the BE.

Thai immigration were the ones that rocked the boat first, upset the apple cart first.

[Joe Mcseismic]

Double post.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Joe Mcseismic

[SheungWan]

11 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

No it's not. It's Thai immigration. They asked the BE to verify the income statements. It could have been any embassy, but, as chance would have it, it was the BE.

Thai immigration were the ones that rocked the boat first, upset the apple cart first.

The boat was already leaking, whoever rocked it.

[sambum]

50 minutes ago, HHTel said:

That is not what is being reported.  The BE has stated that after meetings in May where the Thai Immigration authority stated a requirement for income quoted in letters have to be verified by the embassy.  The embassy is unable to do this for various reasons and have withdrawn the letters because they can't meet the requirements of the authorities here.

If indeed that is true, and we don't know that it isn't, then it's not the fault of the BE.

You are correct in what you say, but Thai Immigration accept letters from other Embassies that are signed by the applicants (an Affidavit) and that is acceptable to them. The British Embassy could easily adopt a similar system, but at this moment are opting not to, and to just discontinue issuing the letters later this year, so to my mind they are at fault for not making any attempt to resolve the problem.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The boat was already leaking, whoever rocked it.

maybe, but nobody cared, the status quo works

[bkkcanuck8]

45 minutes ago, sambum said:

You are correct in what you say, but Thai Immigration accept letters from other Embassies that are signed by the applicants (an Affidavit) and that is acceptable to them. The British Embassy could easily adopt a similar system, but at this moment are opting not to, and to just discontinue issuing the letters later this year, so to my mind they are at fault for not making any attempt to resolve the problem.

I was under the understanding the British HAD that system, but for reasons unknown to us - Thai immigration indicated that they wanted the Embassy to verify the income.  My guess is that the British were first - which would likely happen if the Thai Immigration was noticing a higher incidence of document fraud from the British expats.

 

[lungbing]

I have used the embassy letter every year for about 12 years.  Every year I  have supplied the embassy with copies of letters from my pension providers.  A couple of years ago the embassy also started to ask for a document summarising  the income.  Then they added faint weasel words at the bottom of the issued letter saying words to the effect of the embassy doesn't guarantee the figures.  In which case why did they always ask for supporting documentation?

I'm fortunate in that my current extension is only a month old, done by email for the first and apparently last time.  So by the time my next extension is due the dust will have settled and we will know what is expected.

[Jingthing]

No it's not. It's Thai immigration. They asked the BE to verify the income statements. It could have been any embassy, but, as chance would have it, it was the BE.
Thai immigration were the ones that rocked the boat first, upset the apple cart first.

So the BE spin and excuses fooled at least one person.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Thaidream]

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time        Abraham Lincoln

[kannot]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The boat was already leaking, whoever rocked it.

What they need is a submarine then......................... good  plan

[Spidey]

3 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

No it's not. It's Thai immigration. They asked the BE to verify the income statements. It could have been any embassy, but, as chance would have it, it was the BE.

Thai immigration were the ones that rocked the boat first, upset the apple cart first.

Why would they just target the BE? If it were true they would have informed every embassy.

 

Which leads us to only one conclusion......

[marcusarelus]

Just now, Spidey said:

Why would they just target the BE? If it were true they would have informed every embassy.

 

Which leads us to only one conclusion......

Somebody at the BE asked them for help eliminating workload of letters. 

[Spidey]

4 hours ago, HHTel said:

Thai immigration have not made any statement to date.

And thereby hangs a tale.