Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats

[Pattaya46]

22 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

something wrong there, that would indicate only 6,000 Brits in Thailand or that 3,000 on income related visas didn't need a letter.

Many expats are working here, so not on Retirement extension.

Many expats are dependants (of spouse, parent,...)

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

While this is certainly possible- I have to believe Thai Imm is smart enough to require aided proof such as a pension letter; Social Security verification; Company Letter indicating payments IN Addition tp transfer data. I already take more than 65K from my Us bank account via Thai ATMs or go into a Thai bank and get a cash advance on my cards.  While I could then deposit the funds in a Thai Account and then draw it out again- it's a useless exercise to prove what?   There are far better ways to prove income stream that are overlapping and from 2-3 difference sources. It's pretty hard to forge all the documents and also forge the ATM cards/Credit Cards..

The bottom line is that if your living in Thailand you need to have a place to stay; eat; and all the other things that support life. That costs money - and unless you are getting your monies illegally there is always some documentation to prove it.  Even Las Vegas requests proof of identity when you win more than $600 gambling. There are several ways that Thai Imm can use to verify income- the Embassy letter was rather a universal way  as it is one page and comes directly to the point.

The problem with the BE Letter- is it was never sworn to- no oath was taken and thus no criminal liability for the applicant/ The Australian; American and others make you sign an affidavit indicating  the info is true under penalty of perjury.  If you lie- you have committed a crime- twice- once in your home country and another in Thailand. It's the same oath one swears when they testify in court; give evidence to a lawyer or provide notarized statements seeking loans and investments.  

Could you lie- I suppose but most entities use  multiple ways to eliminate fraud by requesting documents that give overlapping info . The best way for Thai to proceed is to accept the letter from all Embassies and spot check the affidavits -while for British Nationals since their Embassy will not co-operate they may need added documentation others don't need.  My earnest hope is the the BE  continues the letter with some changes  vis a vis the Aussies letter or USA letter.

The UK is going to continue a process which it now cannot comply with effectively? Its a Dead Parrot. And the USA have got a Dead Parrot as well. But nice to see so many on this forum continuing to try and sell it as a solution.

Edited October 16, 2018 by SheungWan

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

The UK is going to continue a process which it now cannot comply with effectively? Its a Dead Parrot. And the USA have got a Dead Parrot as well. But nice to see so many on this forum continuing to try and sell it as a solution.

as long as the dead parrot has nice plumage and is nailed to the perch, I don't think that the IO would be averse to a norwegian blue pinning for the fjords. It has to be seen to be a parrot though.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The UK is going to continue a process which it now cannot comply with effectively? Its a Dead Parrot. And the USA have got a Dead Parrot as well. But nice to see so many on this forum continuing to try and sell it as a solution.

If the UK indeed has a Dead Parrot, then all the embassies have a dead parrot. The status quo has been working well enough for a long time. All Thai immigration needs to do is to perhaps step up the demands for confirmation of the claims, based on the claimed sources rather than the onerous idea of requiring full import of all claimed income done monthly. If they did that consistently, of course not to everyone or even most people, but consistently at all offices to some people, the people that are committing fraud would get the idea it has become too risky. No system like this is perfect. The status quo is at least pretty good and with a minor tweak or two can be better. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater, pardon the cliché. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Jingthing

[SheungWan]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If the UK indeed has a Dead Parrot, then all the embassies have a dead parrot. The status quo has been working well enough for a long time. All Thai immigration needs to do is to perhaps step up the demands for confirmation of the claims, based on the claimed sources rather than the onerous idea of requiring full import of all claimed income done monthly. If they did that consistently, of course not to everyone or even most people, but consistently at all offices to some people, the people that are committing fraud would get the idea it has become too risky. No system like this is perfect. The status quo is at least pretty good and with a minor tweak or two can be better. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater, pardon the cliché. 

It isn't dead. Its just stunned. And so is the argument. which you appear to be nailing to the perch. Have a word with soalbundy!

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by SheungWan

[soalbundy]

24 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

It isn't dead. Its just stunned. And so is the argument. which you appear to be nailing to the perch. Have a word with soalbundy!

 

dead or stunned the embassies are selling them and the IO want them, it's just the BE that wants an autopsy.

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said:

The first question is the consulate authorised to make such declarations. A note on British High Commision ( British consulates in commonwealth countries ) are not allowed to carry out any notarial acts.

They've been sending out letters verifying income for years.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

They've been sending out letters verifying income for years.

yes but no one is so prude as a reformed prostitute.

[meechai]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

something wrong there, that would indicate only 6,000 Brits in Thailand or that 3,000 on income related visas didn't need a letter.

Why does it  seem low?

Surely the vast majority of expats of all nationalities can show 1500GBP/1991USD coming into their Thai accounts per month so need no letter. Or just putting the 400/800kTHB in an account. Remember the letter is for those who want to claim they have $$$ just not here

 

The ones  using the income elsewhere but here in Thailand surely are the minority?

 

As to the claim they who need a letter dont want to bank in Thailand...they still must need at least this small amount in Thailand to live...No?

Edited October 16, 2018 by meechai

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, meechai said:

Why does it  seem low?

Surely the vast majority of expats of all nationalities can show 1500GBP/1991USD coming into their Thai accounts per month so need no letter. Or just putting the 400/800kTHB in an account. Remember the letter is for those who want to claim they have $$$ just not here

 

The ones  using the income elsewhere but here in Thailand surely are the minority?

 

As to the claim they who need a letter dont want to bank in Thailand...they still must need at least this small amount in Thailand to live...No?

The embassy letter has been and still is required for income based applications. Thai immigration has never and does not now require full import of claimed income, monthly or any other period. Such a requirement is onerous for a large portion of people that DO have the income they claim. 

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, meechai said:

Why does it  seem low?

Surely the vast majority of expats of all nationalities can show 1500GBP/1991USD coming into their Thai accounts per month so need no letter. Or just putting the 400/800kTHB in an account. Remember the letter is for those who want to claim they have $$$ just not here

 

The ones  using the income elsewhere but here in Thailand surely are the minority?

 

As to the claim they who need a letter dont want to bank in Thailand...they still must need at least this small amount in Thailand to live...No?

I wasn't aware that if you had say 65,000 Baht going into yout Thai account every month then you didn't need the embassy letter. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I wasn't aware that if you had say 65,000 Baht going into yout Thai account every month then you didn't need the embassy letter. 

That appears to be fiction being promoted by the British Embassy that rather sadly many people are buying into to.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That appears to be fiction being promoted by the British Embassy that rather sadly many people are buying into to.

I agree but come next year I shall transport that amount of money via ATM every month and deduct my living expenses from my Thai account even though I use the German embassy for my letter. Safety first, we don't know what will happen in a years time.

[sambum]

7 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I wasn't aware that if you had say 65,000 Baht going into yout Thai account every month then you didn't need the embassy letter. 

"The ones  using the income elsewhere but here in Thailand surely are the minority?"

 

I would tend to disagree with you on that point. Most people that I know that are receiving a UK State pension and/or a private pension have this paid direct int a UK bank account - as stated on another post, my personal pension provider will only pay it into a UK account.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, sambum said:

"The ones  using the income elsewhere but here in Thailand surely are the minority?"

 

I would tend to disagree with you on that point. Most people that I know that are receiving a UK State pension and/or a private pension have this paid direct int a UK bank account - as stated on another post, my personal pension provider will only pay it into a UK account.

ditto, and if I had my German state pension sent directly to Thailand I would lose my overdraft in my German bank so only my minimal British pension is paid into my Thai account.

[sambum]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

If the UK indeed has a Dead Parrot, then all the embassies have a dead parrot. The status quo has been working well enough for a long time. All Thai immigration needs to do is to perhaps step up the demands for confirmation of the claims, based on the claimed sources rather than the onerous idea of requiring full import of all claimed income done monthly. If they did that consistently, of course not to everyone or even most people, but consistently at all offices to some people, the people that are committing fraud would get the idea it has become too risky. No system like this is perfect. The status quo is at least pretty good and with a minor tweak or two can be better. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater, pardon the cliché. 

I agree - and personally, I don't know, or indeed have heard of anybody making a false declaration in order to receive their Proof of Income letter. The  fraudsters are the ones that Immigration are/should be after, but their insistence on targeting everyone has led to the BE taking the action that it has.   

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

yes but no one is so prude as a reformed prostitute.

Will you be publishing a research paper in the near future?

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Will you be publishing a research paper in the near future?

I'm not into reformed ones

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

yes but no one is so prude as a reformed prostitute.

What is a reformed prostitute?  You mean they start giving it away?  Never happen. 

[soalbundy]

32 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

What is a reformed prostitute?  You mean they start giving it away?  Never happen. 

No, they hold the pill between their knees.

[Expattaff1308]

One has to wonder when if anytime soon the BE are going to reply to the many emails they must have received over this matter (instead of the standard auto reply they generate) and probably more to the point correct the misinformation that they have put out regarding deposits & Bank Statements on their website and during the Tommy Dee Radio Interview.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

One has to wonder when if anytime soon the BE are going to reply to the many emails they must have received over this matter (instead of the standard auto reply they generate) and probably more to the point correct the misinformation that they have put out regarding deposits & Bank Statements on their website and during the Tommy Dee Radio Interview.

Good luck with that, I've never ever had a reply from them, you have to be dying I believe.

[HHTel]

This may be hearsay but from my friend in immigration.  He's been talking to his colleagues in BKK.  It's said that all the embassies have been informed that at some point income letters will not be accepted unless they are 'verified' by the embassies.  It seems that there are discussions going on within immigration in BKK.

This guy is reasonably senior but whether he has the truth or not is anyone's guess.

 

If that's the case, then I guess that TI will backtrack and inform the embassies that income letters will be accepted without verification as is the status quo with no plans to change.

[SheungWan]

29 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

One has to wonder when if anytime soon the BE are going to reply to the many emails they must have received over this matter (instead of the standard auto reply they generate) and probably more to the point correct the misinformation that they have put out regarding deposits & Bank Statements on their website and during the Tommy Dee Radio Interview.

I would think they have better things to do than reply to some of the crackpots here knocking about.

[Spidey]

Just now, SheungWan said:

I would think they have better things to do than reply to some of the crackpots here knocking about.

Sorry, didn't realise you'd emailed the Embassy.

[SheungWan]

7 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Sorry, didn't realise you'd emailed the Embassy.

Sent them a Smiley. ????

Edited October 16, 2018 by SheungWan

[Russell17au]

3 hours ago, meechai said:

Why does it  seem low?

Surely the vast majority of expats of all nationalities can show 1500GBP/1991USD coming into their Thai accounts per month so need no letter. Or just putting the 400/800kTHB in an account. Remember the letter is for those who want to claim they have $$$ just not here

 

The ones  using the income elsewhere but here in Thailand surely are the minority?

 

As to the claim they who need a letter dont want to bank in Thailand...they still must need at least this small amount in Thailand to live...No?

No. I have a travelers card that is linked to my Australian Bank Account and I transfer money from my main account to the travelers card in what ever currency I want to use and then I just go to an ATM that accepts VISA cards and withdraw the money and I get a Stat Dec from Australian Embassy for Thai Immigration and no problems. I do not need a Thai bank account.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Russell17au

[Spidey]

Just now, SheungWan said:

Sent them a Smiley.

I have no doubt.

 

It's surprised and saddened me, nay disgusted me that a number of TVF posters have revelled in the plight of their fellow expats. "I'm alright, up yours" seems to be the order of the day.

 

"I can afford to keep 800k in the bank, if you can't, bye bye, we don't want you here" isn't an attitude that I would have expected, but then again...…..

[soalbundy]

45 minutes ago, HHTel said:

This may be hearsay but from my friend in immigration.  He's been talking to his colleagues in BKK.  It's said that all the embassies have been informed that at some point income letters will not be accepted unless they are 'verified' by the embassies.  It seems that there are discussions going on within immigration in BKK.

This guy is reasonably senior but whether he has the truth or not is anyone's guess.

 

If that's the case, then I guess that TI will backtrack and inform the embassies that income letters will be accepted without verification as is the status quo with no plans to change.

Watch this space, tune in again next week for another episode of 'Someone pushed the wrong button'.

[sambum]

29 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

No. I have a travelers card that is linked to my Australian Bank Account and I transfer money from my main account to the travelers card in what ever currency I want to use and then I just go to an ATM that accepts VISA cards and withdraw the money and I get a Stat Dec from Australian Embassy for Thai Immigration and no problems. I do not need a Thai bank account.

Same, same, but different! I take my passport and UK Bank Debit Card to a Thai bank or Currency booth and get the funds I require that way.