dick dasterdly Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Just now, Chomper Higgot said: I think I have given examples of laws Assange has (allegedly) broken, I've pointed out that the FBI seeking a chat with him and pointed out that what you believe or indeed what Assange believes should be allowed wrt to steeling and publishing state secrets is irrelevant, it is what the US law has to say on the matter. Wikileaks, Assange and his chum Roger Stone are all subject to a Grand Jury wrt to the part they played in Russia's interference in the 2016 US election. You may not agree steeling and publishing state secrets should be considered a crime, steeling and distributing private emails should be considered a crime or assisting a foreign power meddling in the electoral process should be a crime - the law says differently. We all have a different opinion as to whether revealing the truth is a good thing - or, as per your opinion, extremely bad.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 46 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: Incidentally, you've somehow managed to miss the point that it was the Swedish and Brit. govts. that were determined to extradite him to Sweden. More than a few of us knew that this was a ploy to then extradite him to the US - even though the US was keeping very quiet on the subject ????. The extradite to US has no merit. Assange resisted the extradition from UK to Sweden , not for the purpose of avoiding extradition to the US. A simple examination of the extradition treaty would establish that to extradite from Sweden to US is more onerous than the UK. A simple request from the US to UK is sufficient to start extradition proceedings. The question then remains , if Assange feared being sent from Sweden to US , why fight to remain in a country that the US could easily extradite from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said: We all have a different opinion as to whether revealing the truth is a good thing - or, as per your opinion, extremely bad.... Those of us who think about it understand that secrecy has its place in private life, in government, in military and law enforcement and in international relationships. Where there is a need to examine 'secrets' the means to do so need to be controlled within the law, not by agents of foreign governments. If you disagree feel free to post all your computer and bank passwords for all to see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Odd how Assange hasn't released masses of Russian secrets. Maybe the Russian government is open and transparent - who knew?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said: I've no idea whether the 'statute of limitation' has run out according to Swedish law - but think it unlikely. Far more likely that they realise they not only don't have a case, but can't be bothered to pursue the matter any further on behalf of the US. My opinion of course. And let's not bother going into the Swedish laws used in this case, that aren't crimes in the uk..... And yet the uk still agreed to extradite him! Your last para. "Just because the charges or more to the point the extradition request that lead to him being bailed has now been dropped does not negate the crime of skipping bail." brings me back to an earlier post (heavy sigh)... He's a whistle blower that dared to show the crimes committed by the US (amongst others). But nobody cared until he revealed the crimes committed by Western countries ????! Edit - But perhaps you think the evidence and videos were photo-chopped (or whatever) - and it was all lies? I'm at a loss as to why so many hate the truth being revealed about appalling events carried out by our govts. and military?? He is not a whistle blower. Wikileaks is a playground for hackers and spies. Why did wikileaks sell the sole publishing rights to a 'leak' from Russia to a Russian newspaper who then failed to publish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Just now, Chomper Higgot said: Those of us who think about it understand that secrecy has its place in private life, in government, in military and law enforcement and in international relationships. Where there is a need to examine 'secrets' the means to do so need to be controlled within the law, not by agents of foreign governments. If you disagree feel free to post all your computer and bank passwords for all to see. "If you disagree feel free to post all your computer and bank passwords for all to see." This is the best you can come up with?... I see you still have no argument against the points I've raised.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said: "If you disagree feel free to post all your computer and bank passwords for all to see." This is the best you can come up with?... I see you still have no argument against the points I've raised.... You don't have a relevant point. Assange broke the law. He's going to pay the price. (but for the time being he is not, as he claims, 'a prisoner', nor is he, has he claims 'unable to leave the Ecuadorian Embassy'). --- Those concerned for his safety and welfare ought perhaps consider that since the Russians are so keen to get hold of Assange (refer plot to help him escape to Russia) that they are not as equally keen to ensure that he never gets to sit down for a chat with Robert Mueller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) I give up as those with a different opinion have no intention of arguing against the points raised ????. Some/most people are so patriotically inclined that they don't want to hear the truth - and prefer to believe that the 'bogeyman' is whoever the authorities say.... And (sorry off topic, but continuing the point) they never notice that it keeps changing when it comes to countries! 1984 was a great book, and we can see parts of it happening now.... Edited October 20, 2018 by dick dasterdly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 17 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said: He is not a whistle blower. Wikileaks is a playground for hackers and spies. Why did wikileaks sell the sole publishing rights to a 'leak' from Russia to a Russian newspaper who then failed to publish You need to get together with chomper higgot and oilinki - who also believes that anyone with a different opinion has either been influenced by 'the russians', or a russian troll on the TV forum ????. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mejomini Posted October 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2018 Quite right, Mr. Assange Sir. Here's the door out of this unsatisfactory lodging of your choosing. Please don't let the door hit you in the backside on the way out!!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 41 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: You need to get together with chomper higgot and oilinki - who also believes that anyone with a different opinion has either been influenced by 'the russians', or a russian troll on the TV forum ????. In 2010 when wikileaks ran out of fund , where did the monies come from to continue. How did wikileaks operatives arrange for Snowden to arrive at Moscow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said: I give up as those with a different opinion have no intention of arguing against the points raised ????. Some/most people are so patriotically inclined that they don't want to hear the truth - and prefer to believe that the 'bogeyman' is whoever the authorities say.... And (sorry off topic, but continuing the point) they never notice that it keeps changing when it comes to countries! 1984 was a great book, and we can see parts of it happening now.... Wikileaks is Assange, and Assange only cares about Assange. A pity you don't see that the election leaks were done with one purpose only: enhance Assange's case. Despite the leaks, which worked, he didn't get the results he was looking for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 27 minutes ago, stevenl said: Wikileaks is Assange, and Assange only cares about Assange. A pity you don't see that the election leaks were done with one purpose only: enhance Assange's case. Despite the leaks, which worked, he didn't get the results he was looking for. It goes way back to 2010 ,when wiki leaks had the US cable tranche. Before publication wiki leaks provided them to a state run Russian publication. More alarming was that Isreal Shamir was allowed to take a large collection of unredacted US cables, detailing , activists ,opposition politicians and bloggers to authoritarian Belarus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceKadet Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: A number of crimes that include at least the following: Theft of state secretes (+ conspiracy to steel state secrets) Distribution of state secrets (+ conspiracy to distribute state secrets) Hacking government and private information systems (+ conspiracy to hack government and private information systems) Distribution of stolen private emails (+ conspiracy to distribute stolen private emails) Conspiracy to defraud the US electoral systems Aiding and abetting defrauding the US electoral systems. Aiding and abetting an enemy Commissioning crimes of theft, hacking and espionage etc etc ... Nice list. However, we all know that Julian is not guilty of any points you draw. You are just quoting the list of charges against Bradley Manning, who has been prosecuted and thrown in the slammer by US. After his presidential pardon, he became she and is now making good money telling his story worldwide. All the best to her... We also know that US is not actively prosecuting it's own citizens... A few TV shows, a public apology and all is forgotten. Anybody remember John, the American Taliban and what happened to him? I have been following Julian's story since its very beginning in Sweden, and believe that he's right to be paranoid. I have been supporting his view that the US are actively planning to lay their hands on him, and prosecute him. Sweden has shown itself to follow what America tells it to do. Case in point is the TPB server raid and following court case against it's owners, which was a shambles for the Swedish legal system. There is also the still ongoing since 6 years extradition case against Mr. Kim Dotcom (of MegaUpload fame) in NZ, despite several proven irregularities, the US prosecutor will just not let it go. We also have the well documented statement by Ms H. Clinton who, while she was the Secretary of State under the Obama administration, in a meeting seriously asked the Chief of Staff... " Can't we just "Drone" him?", referring to Julian sitting in the Ecuadorian Embassy. Not much surprised that Julian would meddle in her being elected POTUS after that gaffe. It is also strange that the UK is putting such an importance to prosecuting Julian of the offense of skipping bail, while the original case has been dismissed by the Swedish prosecutor. Note as well, that Julian was never charged with anything in the Swedish case, he was only required to attend an interview, but in Sweden, on the insistence of the Swedish prosecutor. I have all the respect for the whistle blowers that expose any government's shoddy business, especially those governments that regard themselves better than other. Having said all that, I believe Julian is running out of friends and brownies after this latest stunt, but maybe he's just loosing it. Would we all after being locked up in a house for 8 years? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinneil Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 17 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said: Nice list. However, we all know that Julian is not guilty of any points you draw. You are just quoting the list of charges against Bradley Manning, who has been prosecuted and thrown in the slammer by US. After his presidential pardon, he became she and is now making good money telling his story worldwide. All the best to her... We also know that US is not actively prosecuting it's own citizens... A few TV shows, a public apology and all is forgotten. Anybody remember John, the American Taliban and what happened to him? I have been following Julian's story since its very beginning in Sweden, and believe that he's right to be paranoid. I have been supporting his view that the US are actively planning to lay their hands on him, and prosecute him. Sweden has shown itself to follow what America tells it to do. Case in point is the TPB server raid and following court case against it's owners, which was a shambles for the Swedish legal system. There is also the still ongoing since 6 years extradition case against Mr. Kim Dotcom (of MegaUpload fame) in NZ, despite several proven irregularities, the US prosecutor will just not let it go. We also have the well documented statement by Ms H. Clinton who, while she was the Secretary of State under the Obama administration, in a meeting seriously asked the Chief of Staff... " Can't we just "Drone" him?", referring to Julian sitting in the Ecuadorian Embassy. Not much surprised that Julian would meddle in her being elected POTUS after that gaffe. It is also strange that the UK is putting such an importance to prosecuting Julian of the offense of skipping bail, while the original case has been dismissed by the Swedish prosecutor. Note as well, that Julian was never charged with anything in the Swedish case, he was only required to attend an interview, but in Sweden, on the insistence of the Swedish prosecutor. I have all the respect for the whistle blowers that expose any government's shoddy business, especially those governments that regard themselves better than other. Having said all that, I believe Julian is running out of friends and brownies after this latest stunt, but maybe he's just loosing it. Would we all after being locked up in a house for 8 years? Your user name here on TV is very appropriate, you are a space cadet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tug Posted October 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2018 Invite him to the Saudi Embassy perhaps he will be more comfortable there lol 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerojero Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Boot him out! A... Hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SpaceKadet Posted October 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2018 At least I am not a 50 cent blogger brainwashed by my government. Write something that doesn't follow the "official" party line, and all cockroaches come out of the sewer. You can believe what you want to believe. But currently the biggest bullies in the world are USA, Russia and China, not necessarily in that order. Expose all their secrets and dirty deals for all I care.... And there are plenty.. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, SpaceKadet said: Nice list. However, we all know that Julian is not guilty of any points you draw. You are just quoting the list of charges against Bradley Manning, who has been prosecuted and thrown in the slammer by US. After his presidential pardon, he became she and is now making good money telling his story worldwide. All the best to her... We also know that US is not actively prosecuting it's own citizens... A few TV shows, a public apology and all is forgotten. Anybody remember John, the American Taliban and what happened to him? I have been following Julian's story since its very beginning in Sweden, and believe that he's right to be paranoid. I have been supporting his view that the US are actively planning to lay their hands on him, and prosecute him. Sweden has shown itself to follow what America tells it to do. Case in point is the TPB server raid and following court case against it's owners, which was a shambles for the Swedish legal system. There is also the still ongoing since 6 years extradition case against Mr. Kim Dotcom (of MegaUpload fame) in NZ, despite several proven irregularities, the US prosecutor will just not let it go. We also have the well documented statement by Ms H. Clinton who, while she was the Secretary of State under the Obama administration, in a meeting seriously asked the Chief of Staff... " Can't we just "Drone" him?", referring to Julian sitting in the Ecuadorian Embassy. Not much surprised that Julian would meddle in her being elected POTUS after that gaffe. It is also strange that the UK is putting such an importance to prosecuting Julian of the offense of skipping bail, while the original case has been dismissed by the Swedish prosecutor. Note as well, that Julian was never charged with anything in the Swedish case, he was only required to attend an interview, but in Sweden, on the insistence of the Swedish prosecutor. I have all the respect for the whistle blowers that expose any government's shoddy business, especially those governments that regard themselves better than other. Having said all that, I believe Julian is running out of friends and brownies after this latest stunt, but maybe he's just loosing it. Would we all after being locked up in a house for 8 years? Why would a whistle blower try to discredit another whistle blower Assange promoting the conspiracy that the Panama Papers is a US plot to discredit Putin. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 29 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said: At least I am not a 50 cent blogger brainwashed by my government. Write something that doesn't follow the "official" party line, and all cockroaches come out of the sewer. You can believe what you want to believe. But currently the biggest bullies in the world are USA, Russia and China, not necessarily in that order. Expose all their secrets and dirty deals for all I care.... And there are plenty.. The opposition in many repressive states rely on support from the US . Should these peoples lives be put at risk through exposure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceKadet Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 @cleopatra2 Care to name any of the " repressive states"? Iraq, Iran, Nicaragua? Now what do those 3 countries have in common? Saudi Arabia perhaps? I would take my chances rather than rely on support from the US. Don't you for a second believe that that support is based on anything altruistic on the part of US. At the end of it there will be a bill to pay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blankagain Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Ecuador has had enough of him so push has come to shove. It's common knowledge they were concerned he was taking over the embassy, using the staff as his personal assistants, unwelcome guests. Their biggest gripe was his personal hygiene. Now his benefits have been slowly cut. Where's Amal Clooney- she's also done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendejo Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 11 hours ago, the guest said: Then if USA want him, extradite his arse, where I'm sure you won't hear from Assange ever again. To the contrary, DT owes him a favor or two, could very well get a presidential pardon and proclaimed a hero in the battle against fake news. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Tug said: Invite him to the Saudi Embassy perhaps he will be more comfortable there lol I would imagine he has also upset a few criminal organisations, I doubt any insurance company would be want to sell him a life policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 13 hours ago, SpaceKadet said: At least I am not a 50 cent blogger brainwashed by my government. Write something that doesn't follow the "official" party line, and all cockroaches come out of the sewer. You can believe what you want to believe. But currently the biggest bullies in the world are USA, Russia and China, not necessarily in that order. Expose all their secrets and dirty deals for all I care.... And there are plenty.. So, about all them them Chinese and Russian secrets exposed by Assange and Wikileaks....Oh, wait. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 17 hours ago, dick dasterdly said: How on earth does someone revealing the truth translate to being a conduit for russian interests?? Maybe something to do with contents of information, timing of publications and dodgy associations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceKadet Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 27 minutes ago, Morch said: So, about all them them Chinese and Russian secrets exposed by Assange and Wikileaks....Oh, wait. Well, both China and Russia are oppressive and closed societies. Those who voice opposing view or disclose state secrets are taking care of on the spot or just disappear. Skripal and Meng Hongwei are just the recent cases. But bellingcat.com did pretty good job in the case of Skripals. And then there is, of course, the language barrier. But there are some documents. You should do your research before contributing to the global warming. https://wikileaks.org/spyfiles/russia/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said: Well, both China and Russia are oppressive and closed societies. Those who voice opposing view or disclose state secrets are taking care of on the spot or just disappear. Skripal and Meng Hongwei are just the recent cases. But bellingcat.com did pretty good job in the case of Skripals. And then there is, of course, the language barrier. But there are some documents. You should do your research before contributing to the global warming. https://wikileaks.org/spyfiles/russia/ If China and Russia are "oppressive and closed societies", it ought to act as an extra motivation to expose respective wrongdoings. And yet (disregarding the expected linked fig leaf), most of Wikileaks (and Assange's) efforts were focused on Western countries, and specifically the US. It is also hard to deny both timing of publication issues, and Wikileaks/Assange's association with Russian elements (denial mode aside). Citing Skripal and Meng Hongwei as a couple of recent examples, did either Assange or Wikileaks had much to say about either? Same question with regard to numerous past transgressions. In this day and age, going on about "language barrier" is as lame as it gets. Maybe more relevant to the intended crowd, though. No real shortage of Chinese and Russian dissidents, opposition or language speakers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceKadet Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Morch said: If China and Russia ... No real shortage of Chinese and Russian dissidents, opposition or language speakers. Yes, and see what happens to them... Skripals and Hongwei come to mind. There have been many more... US government advertises itself as the defender of freedom, democracy and human rights worldwide, yet is de facto biggest international bully and biggest arms supplier to the shoddy governments. Its bullying and warmongering spans the entire globe, from Central America, Middle east to the South and South East Asia. So if that self declared protector of the week commits major fups against its own people and others, it should be brought into the light. China and Russia act mostly within their their borders and immediate vicinity, and have never declared themselves defenders of anything, certainly not freedom and democracy. And how is it that as soon a major exposure comes along, the whistle blowers are accused of being Russian agents, or associates, hence my reference to 50 cent bloggers. Of course, this does not apply to US citizens, like John the Taliban, Manning and Ellsberg. Let's just agree to disagree, and leave it at that. My personal take on the OP is that Julian is rapidly running out of goodwill and losing his grip. So I could say that the US will eventually get what they want. Edited October 21, 2018 by SpaceKadet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 On 10/20/2018 at 6:43 AM, oilinki said: There has been talks that Assange is going to be moved to Russia. I suppose this is a prelude for that procedure. Well no, the UK has refused to give him diplomatic immunity. If / when he leaves the Ecuador Embassy he will be arrested for jumping bail. I do hope that when that happens proper arrangements will be made to care for the cat... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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