Thai Airways flight delay drama: Couple tell their side of the story

[hkt83100]

2 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Monks/Abbots fly free on TG

They do not, but they get a discount.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Their rights? 

What of the paying passengers rights? 

 

These types of disrespectful customer unfriendly procedures and policies don't gain in popularity when attempting to secure and regain their [Thai Airways] faltering status. 

 

Imagine the situation if the said pilots were important Thai monks.

Monks/Abbots fly free on TG [another mindless policy]

 

I recall there was a comment years back when TG got into a negative incident.

 

The comment was 'it's not an airline, it's a famous families status club'.

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, Thian said:

One day i had 6 hours delay on my flight Amsterdam-Dubai.--Bangkok....

 

When we arrived in BKK i went to Emirates and asked for the form to claim my 600euro for the delay...they had never heard of it and were laughing at me...

So i got the form online and sent it, no answer for 2 weeks and suddenly they confirmed and paid same day.

 

It was funny the Thai Emirates groundstaff had never heard of those European rules.

not funny, groundstaff is trained in screwing passengers

 

[NanLaew]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

I disagree strongly with what you say.

You are making allowances for airlines to sell products for money and then later not deliver.

Your arguents are just disgusting.

 

sell and collect money for business class - downgrade to tourist - RUBBISH

and really - a clear case of fraud

 

Fraud? Oh get over yourself.

 

There's the option to downgrade Business Class pax to Coach with compensation (cheapest option for the airline) and then there's the option to place them on another same-class flight with compensation (more expensive option for the airline) or finally the same flight, same class next day with overnight hotel and compensation (most expensive and least desirable for the airline).

 

They are out to make money in a business where margins are tight. They also have to do this safely.

 

The way you're carrying on, you'd think this deadheading malarkey is a daily thing. It is... but it's happening all over the world with loads of airlines and most people don't have a large cow over it.

 

PS. I bolded the salient bits to help you out.

[zzaa09]

5 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

I recall there was a comment years back when TG got into a negative incident.

 

The comment was 'it's not an airline, it's a famous families status club'.

Yep.

Remembering how it was founded and the family underwriters. 

Nothing less than an elitist club.

[NanLaew]

11 minutes ago, new2here said:

Quite correct.

 

in *most* cases staff traveling as must-ride NRPS’ are of a higher or highest priority — and that includes over and above a full/fare F class pax.  Unsavory to the visual?  Yes, absolutely, but that’s how it is.

 

in many cases where the carriers contractual obligations to a passenger intersect with that of a carriers contractual obligations to a staff member, usually the staffs right take precedent.

 

one thing I think that is also worth noting is that a specific seat assignment is rarely ever a contractually guaranteed element of travel and in most all cases a carrier retains the right and is free to change that seat assignment at any time, without advance notice to the passenger and with no requirement for compensation*

(so long as the new seat is still in the same ticketed cabin, otherwise it would be an IDG) 

Thanks for sharing your real-world, industry knowledge.

[NanLaew]

8 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

not funny, groundstaff is trained in screwing passengers

 

I think the correct term is caveat emptor.

[melvinmelvin]

15 hours ago, new2here said:

Quite correct.

 

in *most* cases staff traveling as must-ride NRPS’ are of a higher or highest priority — and that includes over and above a full/fare F class pax.  Unsavory to the visual?  Yes, absolutely, but that’s how it is.

 

in many cases where the carriers contractual obligations to a passenger intersect with that of a carriers contractual obligations to a staff member, usually the staffs right take precedent.

 

one thing I think that is also worth noting is that a specific seat assignment is rarely ever a contractually guaranteed element of travel and in most all cases a carrier retains the right and is free to change that seat assignment at any time, without advance notice to the passenger and with no requirement for compensation*

(so long as the new seat is still in the same ticketed cabin, otherwise it would be an IDG) 

disagree STRONGLY

if its important for TG to get those employees to BKK 

it is NOT ok to not deliver products sold and money collected - that is close close fraud

TG could send their employees with another plane, SQ or Suiss Air or whatever

or they could just charter a  plane and bring them to BKK

 

To <deleted> around with products already sold and paid is fraud.

 

Edited October 21, 2018 by metisdead
Profanity edited out.

[new2here]

16 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

I disagree strongly with what you say.

You are making allowances for airlines to sell products for money and then later not deliver.

Your arguents are just disgusting.

 

sell and collect money for business class - downgrade to tourist - RUBBISH

and really - a clear case of fraud

 

“Fraud”.  I doubt that.

 

Thai contact of carriage section 9.2.4 holds that “... If we are unable to provide previously confirmed space, we shall provide compensation to those Passengers denied boarding in accordance with applicable law and our denied boarding compensation policy.”

 

Therefore, it would appear that by virtue of agreeing to purchase said ticket a passenger has also agreed to said contractual terms.. so long as TG complied with them, then I think making a legally defensible claim of fraud will be a monumental stretch.

 

Section 9.2.4 does appear to give TG an “out” for failing to provide said previously paid and confirmed transportation - so long as IDB is paid.    

 

One may not like it... may call it trash, rubbish or what have you, but it appears that TG does retain that right. It will never be passenger-popular, but most elements contained in the contract of carriage are for the protection of the carrier and not for the passenger— that’s where National consumer rights and such come into play.

 

i do however believe that something went sideways on the ground before boarding and wasn’t properly handled — and that unresolved issue continued to delay departure.  

 

[ravip]

When you’re asked by a flight attendant or gate agent to change seats, it’s usually to help families sit together, allow caregivers to sit next to patients, or to accommodate an air marshal or other airline employee. They also might ask you to move for safety reasons or to help redistribute the weight balance of the aircraft, especially on smaller planes.

If it happens to you, respond politely and graciously. Over the years, I’ve been asked countless times to move seats and have done so without complaining. Nearly every time, the flight attendant has thanked my willingness to be flexible with free bottles of wine or a snack.

https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/airline-seating-rules

[NanLaew]

Despite being increasingly unable to conceal his THAI bash, the only advice I have for melvinmelvin is to print out, read and carry with him the terms and conditions of carriage for every flight he plans on taking in the future. Takes about 10 minutes to read but may prevent another 2 hour delay in the unlikely event his preferred carrier "pulls a THAI" on him.

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, new2here said:

“Fraud”.  I doubt that.

 

Thai contact of carriage section 9.2.4 holds that “... If we are unable to provide previously confirmed space, we shall provide compensation to those Passengers denied boarding in accordance with applicable law and our denied boarding compensation policy.”

 

Therefore, it would appear that by virtue of agreeing to purchase said ticket a passenger has also agreed to said contractual terms.. so long as TG complied with them, then I think making a legally defensible claim of fraud will be a monumental stretch.

 

Section 9.2.4 does appear to give TG an “out” for failing to provide said previously paid and confirmed transportation - so long as IDB is paid.    

 

One may not like it... may call it trash, rubbish or what have you, but it appears that TG does retain that right. It will never be passenger-popular, but most elements contained in the contract of carriage are for the protection of the carrier and not for the passenger— that’s where National consumer rights and such come into play.

 

i do however believe that something went sideways on the ground before boarding and wasn’t properly handled — and that unresolved issue continued to delay departure.  

 

 

well I do disagree with you, rather strongly

but whatever

a bunch of years ago I had an interesting experience on a LH flight from Nice

when boarding was finished it turned out  that there were 6 or 8 pax in the cabin with no seat

THAT created a fuss - massive checking of boarding cards and tickets and manifest

and  lots of angry pax

I was up front in the small 1 class cabin and was ok - but further down in the tube  it was chaos

especially tricky when crew wanted seated pax off the plane in favour of standing pax

what a mess

but the Champagne was ok

 

[new2here]

I do get it that from a court of public opinion or viewpoint NO CARRIER will ever “win” when it comes to IDBing or IDGing a revenue passenger for that of a staff member -pilot, flight attendant, senior manager or wherever... its just not going to happen .. and I think carriers know this too.

 

but... at the end of the day, in most cases, the practice of IDGing someone IS a contractually permissible practice unless applicable local law states contrary.. the same is almost always true for IDBing one one as well.. so long as the carriage of contract rules were followed, then it’s usually permissible - again, so long as local applicable law doesn’t say otherwise.

 

Was TG in the “right” here?  With the caveat that I don’t have all the facts/data- i would say yes they were right in their right or ability to downgrade a revenue passenger to make way for an NRPS must-ride... BUT... I would ALSO say they were wrong in the HANDLING of it.  

 

These matters really should never be done at or near deaparute time.. unless it was a last-minute NRPS booking (which at a line station, I’d be surprised if it was) it should have all been done and finished before the first pax hit the loading bridge.

 

drama at departure time is never conducive to on-time departures.

[ravip]

3 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

well I do disagree with you, rather strongly

but whatever

a bunch of years ago I had an interesting experience on a LH flight from Nice

when boarding was finished it turned out  that there were 6 or 8 pax in the cabin with no seat

THAT created a fuss - massive checking of boarding cards and tickets and manifest

and  lots of angry pax

I was up front in the small 1 class cabin and was ok - but further down in the tube  it was chaos

especially tricky when crew wanted seated pax off the plane in favour of standing pax

what a mess

but the Champagne was ok

 

Who was responsible for the mess? Were many Thais around ?????

[melvinmelvin]

9 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Despite being increasingly unable to conceal his THAI bash, the only advice I have for melvinmelvin is to print out, read and carry with him the terms and conditions of carriage for every flight he plans on taking in the future. Takes about 10 minutes to read but may prevent another 2 hour delay in the unlikely event his preferred carrier "pulls a THAI" on him.

piss talk

this is no Thai bash

this is hate talk re airlines selling products - collecting money - not delivering

 

oh, hello Mr Rest,

sorry we can not deliver that blue sofa you bought - we have same same in green and in yellow

you see, yesterday one of our employees wanted a blue one and we had to give it to him

 

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, ravip said:

Who was responsible for the mess? Were many Thais around ?????

ground staff I would say,

gave boarding cards to more pax than the plane had seats

hardly any Thais around

 

[ravip]

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

ground staff I would say,

gave boarding cards to more pax than the plane had seats

hardly any Thais around

 

"gave boarding cards to more pax than the plane had seats"

Aren't these things computerised today?

 

[OJAS]

37 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

TG could send their employees with another plane, SQ or Suiss Air or whatever

or they could just charter a  plane and bring them to BKK

What if there wasn't another airline flying from ZRH to BKK at around the same time?

 

And do you really believe that chartering a plane at short notice is as easy as pulling a rabbit out of a hat?

 

[melvinmelvin]

8 minutes ago, ravip said:

"gave boarding cards to more pax than the plane had seats"

Aren't these things computerised today?

 

yes,

but computer users frequently screw up

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 minute ago, OJAS said:

What if there wasn't another airline flying from ZRH to BKK at around the same time?

 

And do you really believe that chartering a plane at short notice is as easy as pulling a rabbit out of a hat?

 

yes, chartering a plane is easy-mak

but bottom line is that this is a tg problem not a pax problem

 

[scorecard]

14 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

disagree STRONGLY

if its important for TG to get those employees to BKK 

it is NOT ok to not deliver products sold and money collected - that is close close fraud

TG could send their employees with another plane, SQ or Suiss Air or whatever

or they could just charter a  plane and bring them to BKK

 

To <deleted> around with products already sold and paid is fraud.

 

It's not only fraud, it seems TG simply cannot understand the importance of building brand, which means, among many things: total reliability, operational excellence, total customer satisfaction above all etc. 

 

 

[NanLaew]

17 minutes ago, scorecard said:

It's not only fraud, it seems TG simply cannot understand the importance of building brand, which means, among many things: total reliability, operational excellence, total customer satisfaction above all etc. 

 

 

Let's try and be a bit more precise here. How about, "... it seems TG more than 80% of full-service air carriers worldwide simply cannot understand the importance of building brand, which means, among many things: total reliability, operational excellence, total customer satisfaction above all etc."

 

Oh look! You completely forgot customer safety!

Edited October 20, 2018 by NanLaew

[NanLaew]

At the end of the day, a single THAI flight was delayed by 2 hours but ultimately it got here, nobody was bounced and no children or animals were hurt in the exercise. Meanwhile for some here, the root cause of this ultimately small delay was corporate fraud mixed up with a bit of freeloading employees, their relatives and government workers.

 

...and monks. Don't forget the freeloading monks.

[NanLaew]

46 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

yes, chartering a plane is easy-mak

but bottom line is that this is a tg problem not a pax problem

 

But... but.... you said earlier.

 

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

piss talk

this is no Thai bash

this is hate talk re airlines selling products - collecting money - not delivering

 

oh, hello Mr Rest,

sorry we can not deliver that blue sofa you bought - we have same same in green and in yellow

you see, yesterday one of our employees wanted a blue one and we had to give it to him

 

So it IS a Thai bash isn't it. You don't give a flying puck abut what the other ~80% of airlines are doing when it comes to keeping the customers safe do you?

[scorecard]

9 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Let's try and be a bit more precise here. How about, "... it seems TG more than 80% of full-service air carriers worldwide simply cannot understand the importance of building brand, which means, among many things: total reliability, operational excellence, total customer satisfaction above all etc."

 

Oh look! You completely forgot customer safety!

No I didn't, I include that in operational excellence and complete customer satisfaction. 

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

But... but.... you said earlier.

 

So it IS a Thai bash isn't it. You don't give a flying puck abut what the other ~80% of airlines are doing when it comes to keeping the customers safe do you?

Just your convenient assumption. 

[melvinmelvin]

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

But... but.... you said earlier.

 

So it IS a Thai bash isn't it. You don't give a flying puck abut what the other ~80% of airlines are doing when it comes to keeping the customers safe do you?

no,

no thai bash, i don't do thai bash

 

keeping customers safe ????????????? are you drunk or smth?

 

[surangw]

pay with a credit card, dispute the charge

[NanLaew]

7 minutes ago, scorecard said:

No I didn't, I include that in operational excellence and complete customer satisfaction. 

If it's not mentioned specifically, then it can be assumed it was included in the spiel about "operational excellence and complete customer satisfaction"?

 

They don't do assumptions on safety in the airline business... most businesses that want to be a success for that matter.

[Lingba]

Congratulations to Thai Airways as this incident is now all over the international news headlines....Your stupidity has brought a shining light of attention to your self righteous, selfish airline...may you spin into an abyss of failure