FAKE VISAS? ADVICE NEEDED!

[dcnx]

Laughing at everyone talking about what’s unethical in Thailand. Everything here is unethical. The Thais know this and play the game accordingly. Thai society is built on corruption and connections. Period.

 

Why swim upstream in a society built on not getting in the water to begin with?

[sirmud63]

13 minutes ago, dcnx said:

Laughing at everyone talking about what’s unethical in Thailand. Everything here is unethical. The Thais know this and play the game accordingly. Thai society is built on corruption and connections. Period.

 

Why swim upstream in a society built on not getting in the water to begin with?

on point . if you removed all corruption over night the economy would collapse. 

 

[notamember]

5 hours ago, sirmud63 said:

very interesting that this topic comes up now , iv just got my third extension on retirement two days ago .

done by my lawyer in CM.

the price went up from 23000thb last year to 35000thb this time , but , i didnt need to even have a bank account this time , just passport and extra photos. 

i was abit surprised myself , but my lawyer told me no problem , its all good , we use our bank account for letter to immigration ,and thats what the extra charge is for . totally worth it .

so , go figure that one . 

 

i figure he charged you 12,000 baht more for not putting the money in your bank

[cleverman]

On 25 October 2018 at 3:01 PM, BritTim said:

Many have used these agent arranged retirement extensions successfully in the past. However, they involve risk. If the relationship with immigration of the agent you use sours, you could end up in serious trouble. Although the extensions are genuine in principle, they are based on fraudulent information in the applications used to get them.  In my opinion, they should be a last resort for those with no other way to stay, and those using them should decide what they will do if deported from Thailand at short notice.

Comments recommending an illegal act should not be allowed. 

[cleverman]

12 hours ago, notamember said:

i figure he charged you 12,000 baht more for not putting the money in your bank

I friend of mine who did same you 5 months ago has been summonsed to TI , they said they are reviewing visas issued by agents. As there was no 800000 in his bank, he's worried. Will advise the outcome. 

[Briggsy]

1 minute ago, cleverman said:

I friend of mine who did same you 5 months ago has been summonsed to TI , they said they are reviewing visas issued by agents. As there was no 800000 in his bank, he's worried. Will advise the outcome. 

What is TI?

[cleverman]

8 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

What is TI?

As this is about Thailand Immigration, have a guess.

[Briggsy]

1 minute ago, cleverman said:

As this is about Thailand Immigration, have a guess.

Thanks, never encountered that abbreviation before.

 

As you use the word 'summonsed', can I take it this was a legal summons backed by the weight of a court order, probably delivered by a court clerk or police officer?

[cleverman]

On 26 October 2018 at 3:36 PM, scorecard said:

So that brings a good question; would any bank, in Thailand (perhaps globally) have policies / regulations allowing local bank managers to issue letters like this which state an account balance whih is untue?

 

I very much doubt it?

 

Why? Simple answer, risk management is very serious and a very high priority for any bank and all professionally operated banks analyse the overall daily national / branch activities every day for any incidents of any type of risk or actions breaking regulations, and any flags which could indicate the possibility of the same happening today or tomorrow.

 

All banks, Thailand and everywhere do have regular internal staff incidents (basic counter staff and local managers) which break / severely break bank policies and regulations and break national laws. 

 

I somehow doubt any bank would have policies which plainly allow risk. 

How then is the agent able to withdraw 800000/400000 out of your bank account ? How much extra could he draw out.

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, cleverman said:

As this is about Thailand Immigration, have a guess.

But why not type it out instead of a unknown abbreviation of it. You can also write just immigration to save tying four characters if you only write Thai immigration.

[cleverman]

On 26 October 2018 at 3:40 PM, Mark1066 said:

They don’t state untrue balances - money is in the account for a day, stated balance is true, accommodating Immigration officer waives seasoning requirement. This was all covered in a previous post.

There is no way I would give an agent power of attorney .( the only way he could draw money out of my account).

[RichardColeman]

On 10/25/2018 at 1:51 PM, Tervanin said:

he found two companies who promise to help him to get retirement visa without any funds,both  for same 25.000 [!] bath for their service.

seems high, most of the people I know pay 14,000-16500

[cleverman]

14 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Thanks, never encountered that abbreviation before.

 

As you use the word 'summonsed', can I take it this was a legal summons backed by the weight of a court order, probably delivered by a court clerk or police officer?

No you can't. 

[Tweedle dee]

19 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

seems high, most of the people I know pay 14,000-16500

I pay 12000 saying that there is another doing for 9500 but the goal posts are about to alter all this.

[Briggsy]

21 minutes ago, cleverman said:

No you can't. 

Okay, he wasn't 'summonsed' then. Thanks for the clarification.

[notamember]

37 minutes ago, cleverman said:

There is no way I would give an agent power of attorney .( the only way he could draw money out of my account).

ATM card and Pin too and make bank to Bank transfer or pre-signed withdrawal slips to get the 800,000 back after processing. or internet banking on phone to facilitate transfer

[cleverman]

52 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Okay, he wasn't 'summonsed' then. Thanks for the clarification.

I summons you to inform me how you know that.

[Peterw42]

Lots of people appear to be unaware of how the agent extensions with no funds work.

 

The agents deal with high ranking immigration officers, a high ranking immigration officer can override the money in the bank requirement.

Most of the time there is no money being lent, funds put in and out of accounts, less than 90 days, fake or real letters from banks etc.

 

A high level immigration officer, with the legal power to do so, approves the extension with no funds in the bank.

 

A high level imm officer has discretionary powers, he can approve an extension with less than 800k in the bank, less than 90 days in the bank, without a bank letter or can approve an extension with no funds in the bank.

 

You can speculate about how the funds get deposited/withdrawn, the 90 day requirement, the bank letter etc. Its a moot point, its just an immigration officer with a big "approved" stamp, and the discretionary power to stamp whatever he wants. Nobody is presenting fake funds, fake letters etc to the immigration officer.

 

Yes, Its corruption/illegal that the only way to access the high level imm officer is via an agent, and money changes hands etc. The actual extension is a legal extension, approved legally, by a legal immigration officer.

 

Dig out the police order that defines the requirements, 800k, 90 days, bank letter etc etc. The last paragraph in that police order says " a high ranking officer can override the requirements and approve an extension.

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Peterw42

[mlkik]

Before  when I was on a tourist visa I was quoted 35000฿ from an agent to get me a non o and retirement extension.

I declined and done it myself at Immigration.

When I lived in Pattaya all the expats except one used an agent and did not have money in the bank.

[cleverman]

32 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Lots of people appear to be unaware of how the agent extensions with no funds work.

 

The agents deal with high ranking immigration officers, a high ranking immigration officer can override the money in the bank requirement.

Most of the time there is no money being lent, funds put in and out of accounts, less than 90 days, fake or real letters from banks etc.

 

A high level immigration officer, with the legal power to do so, approves the extension with no funds in the bank.

 

A high level imm officer has discretionary powers, he can approve an extension with less than 800k in the bank, less than 90 days in the bank, without a bank letter or can approve an extension with no funds in the bank.

 

You can speculate about how the funds get deposited/withdrawn, the 90 day requirement, the bank letter etc. Its a moot point, its just an immigration officer with a big "approved" stamp, and the discretionary power to stamp whatever he wants. Nobody is presenting fake funds, fake letters etc to the immigration officer.

 

Yes, Its corruption/illegal that the only way to access the high level imm officer is via an agent, and money changes hands etc. The actual extension is a legal extension, approved legally, by a legal immigration officer.

 

Dig out the police order that defines the requirements, 800k, 90 days, bank letter etc etc. The last paragraph in that police order says " a high ranking officer can override the requirements and approve an extension.

 

 

 

Your last sentence does not prove what you state is correct,here say. The new immigration chief is arresting agents. That is fact,so, why arrest arrest agents doing "legal extensions done legally?

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, cleverman said:

Your last sentence does not prove what you state is correct,here say. The new immigration chief is arresting agents. That is fact,so, why arrest arrest agents doing "legal extensions done legally?

Depends what the agents are being arrested for, I haven't personally seen any reports of agents being arrested. Do you have any links ?

Its not a hard concept to understand, a high level immigration officer can approve any extension, "legal extensions done legally". That part isnt done by the agent, its done by immigration.

 

As I said above, corruption/illegal that only agents can use high level officers and money is changing hands, maybe they will arrest all the agents on those grounds.

 

My last sentence is still correct, its written in the police orders.

 

"Dig out the police order that defines the requirements, 800k, 90 days, bank letter etc etc. The last paragraph in that police order says " a high ranking officer can override the requirements and approve an extension."

 

 

 

[cleverman]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Depends what the agents are being arrested for, I haven't personally seen any reports of agents being arrested. Do you have any links ?

Its not a hard concept to understand, a high level immigration officer can approve any extension, "legal extensions done legally". That part isnt done by the agent, its done by immigration.

 

As I said above, corruption/illegal that only agents can use high level officers and money is changing hands, maybe they will arrest all the agents on those grounds.

 

My last sentence is still correct, its written in the police orders.

 

"Dig out the police order that defines the requirements, 800k, 90 days, bank letter etc etc. The last paragraph in that police order says " a high ranking officer can override the requirements and approve an extension."

 

 

 

I don't dispute your last sentence. Do you have any links to the rest of your post?

[scorecard]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Depends what the agents are being arrested for, I haven't personally seen any reports of agents being arrested. Do you have any links ?

Its not a hard concept to understand, a high level immigration officer can approve any extension, "legal extensions done legally". That part isnt done by the agent, its done by immigration.

 

As I said above, corruption/illegal that only agents can use high level officers and money is changing hands, maybe they will arrest all the agents on those grounds.

 

My last sentence is still correct, its written in the police orders.

 

"Dig out the police order that defines the requirements, 800k, 90 days, bank letter etc etc. The last paragraph in that police order says " a high ranking officer can override the requirements and approve an extension."

 

 

 

 

I don't doubt that very senior Imm. officers have authority to bypass some requirements in very extenuating circumstances, but it also seems to me that if queried by even higher authorities (could be the new big joke guy perhaps), then that Imm. officer would have to explain and have a very good reason.

 

And it seems to be that big joke is not frightened to demand answers any from senior officers.

 

[Peterw42]

6 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

I don't doubt that very senior Imm. officers have authority to bypass some requirements in very extenuating circumstances, but it also seems to me that if queried by even higher authorities (could be the new big joke guy perhaps), then that Imm. officer would have to explain and have a very good reason.

 

And it seems to be that big joke is not frightened to demand answers any from senior officers.

 

Yes, that may be the case. Maybe in the future they may be required to please explain why discretionary powers were used. The definition of discretionary powers is, at the discretion of the person with the powers. If they have to start showing why, they are no longer discretionary powers.

 

[Peterw42]

18 minutes ago, cleverman said:

I don't dispute your last sentence. Do you have any links to the rest of your post?

There isnt a lot of links to corrupt/illegal activities, lol. Go and talk to an agent, most are happy to explain the system, most will say that they are not presenting fake funds, letters etc, most will explain that the application goes through to a high level officer and gets approved without the usual funds/letter/seasoning requirements.

 

 

 

[Briggsy]

2 hours ago, cleverman said:

I summons you to inform me how you know that.

The verb "to summon" vs the verb "to summons". The meaning is different. And added to the fact you just told me!

[CharlieH]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

There isnt a lot of links to corrupt/illegal activities, lol. Go and talk to an agent, most are happy to explain the system, most will say that they are not presenting fake funds, letters etc, most will explain that the application goes through to a high level officer and gets approved without the usual funds/letter/seasoning requirements.

 

 

 

I can also confirm this happens.

[notamember]

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

 

Most of the time there is no money being lent, funds put in and out of accounts, less than 90 days, fake or real letters from banks etc.

 

You can speculate about how the funds get deposited/withdrawn, the 90 day requirement, the bank letter etc. Its a moot point, its just an immigration officer with a big "approved" stamp, and the discretionary power to stamp whatever he wants. Nobody is presenting fake funds, fake letters etc to the immigration officer.

 

you are wrong, some agents do have the money to deposit for clients and do so and pay for and present the genuine letters from the bank that support them

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by notamember

[CharlieH]

I think suffice to say "various" methods are/were/have been used to obtain what is required. No one can be certain but that doesnt make the other "wrong", it just means they have a different experience or knowledge.

[cleverman]

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

There isnt a lot of links to corrupt/illegal activities, lol. Go and talk to an agent, most are happy to explain the system, most will say that they are not presenting fake funds, letters etc, most will explain that the application goes through to a high level officer and gets approved without the usual funds/letter/seasoning requirements.

 

 

 

Well then, that settles it then, the agent wouldn't lie.