Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[Thaidream]

11 minutes ago, Larryst said:

Not acceptable. The man in immigration said. 800,000 baht (3 months before applying) in a thai bank or 65,000 baht income a month. Will have to wait & see if things change for applying.

Each month 65K per month- for how many months seasoning- 3 months or more?  Combo method -?  400K plus how many months seasoning on the deposits in bank?  Source of deposits- foreign or do not care.

 

Those with valid embassy letter- obtained in 2018 and still valid- just show the letter or need added proof?  Prior report from Jomtien said they would accept the letter if obtained  in 2018.

 

Sounds like a 2 tier system developing-  those with letter and those without with a cutoff date on the letter  6 months down the road. But if no letter need to put the money in the bank.  

 

Thanks for the report but need  much more info to make  informed decisions.

 

 

[JLCrab]

15 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Each month 65K per month- for how many months seasoning- 3 months or more? 

They may have to calculate how many months with no withdrawals it will take to make it unfeasible or impractical for the revolving-door crowd.

[JackThompson]

37 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

There ain't a system yet but you're already thinking of ways to beat the system. I guess it takes all kinds.

My point is more that they had a better system before, where Americans had to commit a felony to scam it.   Easy to report a few scammers to shut that down fast - Hint to Authorities: "Targets are living in scummy-apartments on Pattaya dark-side, but claiming 65K Baht income." 

 

What comes next could be...

• An easier-to-bypass system of "just show deposits" (what I am pointing out)
• An impossible system for many of "show govt-pensions only" or similar (as Phuket seems to be enforcing - though, granted, they are known to be a PITA location).
• Some other option(s)

30 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

We're eating worms right now because of people who were only interested in beating the system.

I seriously doubt that.  To the extent it is true, it is because the IOs were ticked the embassies were cutting into their agent-system business.

[JLCrab]

4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I seriously doubt that.

Does that make a difference?

[racyrick]

49 minutes ago, Larryst said:

I just went to immigration in Jomtein. Did my 90 day check in, no problem. Then went to the retirement desk and show them my banking information & statements. The letter Verification of Benefits from SSA, with a list of all payments received and a copy of my 1099-R. Not acceptable. A list of payments, I get from the Office of Personnel Management and a copy of my 1099-R. Not acceptable. A bank statement from the states. Showing all savings & saving certificates (way over 800,000 baht) and a copy of all income going into my bank account. Not acceptable. The man in immigration said. 800,000 baht (3 months before applying) in a thai bank or 65,000 baht income a month. Will have to wait & see if things change for applying.

Did you show monthly deposits in a Thai bank?

[mogandave]

I seriously doubt that.  To the extent it is true, it is because the IOs were ticked the embassies were cutting into their agent-system business.

Would not better targets be people living well off money generated in illegal activity?

And if they did start rounding up people living in scummy apartments I imagine most of the people howling about proving income would be howling about cracking down on guys in scummy apartments.

[ubonjoe]

51 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Just a thought..could it be possible for the MODS of Thaiviisa to have a meeting with the top kiddies of the Thai Immigration Dept. to find out exactly whats what re extension requirements?

Management is trying to set up a meeting with them.

A was asked what was needed from them. I told them we need some info about it and what will be needed if you cannot get income proof from your embassy since nothing had been announced by them.

I used my situation as an example. What do I use next August to apply for 12th extension based upon marriage since I apparently will not have a income affidavit.

[JLCrab]

Well it seems from reading on here if the IMM folks want to make some revision to the 65K baht per month 'evidence' of income there going to have to come up with some way to assure that it is a new 65K baht every month and not just the same 65K recycled and deposited over-&-over again.

Edited November 6, 2018 by JLCrab

[JackThompson]

18 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Would not better targets be people living well off money generated in illegal activity?

They probably have elite visas - and certainly the 800K in the baht if not - and likely use agents just to be sure and avoid ever having to speak to any type of police in-person.  They will be the very last people who will have any problems in Thailand, unless they make themselves a nusance / draw too much attention, or they are "in the way" of someone with power.  In general, it seems that for "minor" illegal activity, that which is targeted, is that which is not accompanied by payments to authorities to unofficially permit it.  Consider the last "soapy massage" crackdown I read about here.

[Thaidream]

20 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

anagement is trying to set up a meeting with them.

A was asked what was needed from them. I told them we need some info about it and what will be needed if you cannot get income proof from your embassy since nothing had been announced by them.

I used my situation as an example. What do I use next August to apply for 12th extension based upon marriage since I apparently will not have a income affidavit

I might suggest a complete written list of questions in both English and Thai handed out to the participants covering both marriage and retirement- and every possibility  of how the proof will work.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Thaidream

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

And you know that how?

 

According to my local hospital, who other than emergency, will no longer treat 'tourists' without first confirming they have the necessary funds.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I might suggest a complete written list of questions in both English and Thai handed out to the participants overseeing both marriage and retirement- and every possibility  of how the proof will work.

I cannot think of that many question that can be asked. Hard to ask many questions about something that you know nothing about since they have not said anything yet.

It may only be a meeting with only one or two people.

[mogandave]

They probably have elite visas - and certainly the 800K in the baht if not - and likely use agents just to be sure and avoid ever having to speak to any type of police in-person.  They will be the very last people who will have any problems in Thailand, unless they make themselves a nusance / draw too much attention, or they are "in the way" of someone with power.  In general, it seems that for "minor" illegal activity, that which is targeted, is that which is not accompanied by payments to authorities to unofficially permit it.  Consider the last "soapy massage" crackdown I read about here.

Is that a yes or a no?

[mogandave]

According to my local hospital, who other than emergency, will no longer treat 'tourists' without first confirming they have the necessary funds.

Well that’s certainly comprehensive.

Is that as reliable as my local IO?

[STALINGRAD]

There is a planned visit to Phuket by US embassy service personnel this month.Am I right in assuming a notary service will be performed for income verification? And that the paper will be excepted Dec.3 for my next retirement visa application? Or have like others have stated this is 149 pages of speculation,gripping,and confusion...

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Well that’s certainly comprehensive.

Based on their personal experience.

 

4 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Is that as reliable as my local IO?

You can be 'stitched' up at either establishment.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, STALINGRAD said:

There is a planned visit to Phuket by US embassy service personnel this month.Am I right in assuming a notary service will be performed for income verification? And that the paper will be excepted Dec.3 for my next retirement visa application? Or have like others have stated this is 149 pages of speculation,gripping,and confusion...

Yes you can do a income affidavit and it will be accepted next month when you apply for your extension of stay next month.

But if applying at Phuket immigration they may want back up for the income affidavit. I suggest you ask them what they want now.

 

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, Larryst said:

I think the U.S. Embassy should have a meeting with Thai Immegration. Then get the facts and then help the U.S. citizens.

And probably help non-American citizens to boot, just as they did following the representations they made to the IB in 2013 regarding the maximum validity period of income confirmations, which led to the directive setting this at 6 months. Fat chance of the UK Embassy helping us Brits any further in this matter!

[STALINGRAD]

Thank you Joe. Will do.

[fforest1]

35 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Well it seems from reading on here if the IMM folks want to make some revision to the 65K baht per month 'evidence' of income there going to have to come up with some way to assure that it is a new 65K baht every month and not just the same 65K recycled and deposited over-&-over again.

Well if you have your 800,000....Why worry about where people get their 65K.....65K in the bank is 65k in the bank is 65k in the bank.....

[JLCrab]

11 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Well if you have your 800,000....Why worry about where people get their 65K.....65K in the bank is 65k in the bank is 65k in the bank.....

Because I don't have 800K baht in a Thai bank right now but I do transfer via ATM or Bangkok Bank ACH 65K baht anyway and I would not want to see the somewhat proposed FTT transfer scuttled because the IMM folks can't come up with a feasible way to prevent the same 65K to be recycled over and over every month like some here are chomping at the bit to be able to do.

 

BTW my first SWIFT FTT transfer was 2 NOV 2018.

Edited November 6, 2018 by JLCrab

[Thaidream]

10 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Well if you have your 800,000....Why worry about where people get their 65K.....65K in the bank is 65k in the bank is 65k in the bank...

I think the question that needs to be answered is  does the 65K need to be seasoned and for how long?  I spend 65K per month but if I have to keep 65K locked in a bank, that means I need another 65K every month to pay my obligations- so it's not 65K its 130K and maybe more for others.  In addition- are the funds sourced from overseas or do they care?

Edited November 6, 2018 by Thaidream

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I think the question that needs to be answered is  does the 65K need to be seasoned and for how long?  I spend 65K per month but if I have to keep 65K locked in a bank, that means I need another 65K every month to pay my obligations- so it's not 65K its 130K and maybe more for others.  In addition- are the funds sourced from overseas or do they care?

It will certainly not have to be sitting in a bank for any amount of time. It is meant to be used to live on.

I am certain it will need to be transferred in from abroad unless you can prove it was legally earned here from investments and etc.

[JLCrab]

Well there certainly seems to be the contingent on here that wants to transfer from ex-Thailand and deposit 65K baht each month, withdraw most of the 65K baht, ship it back to the country whence it came, and then transfer and deposit the SAME 65K baht less expenses the next month.

 

After all 65k is 65K is 65K.

[dick dasterdly]

20 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes you can do a income affidavit and it will be accepted next month when you apply for your extension of stay next month.

But if applying at Phuket immigration they may want back up for the income affidavit. I suggest you ask them what they want now.

 

But surely that's the point?

 

Phuket Immigration have (apparently) already said that they will only accept govt. pensions as back up proof of income, and another poster has said that Hua Hin Immigration are also coming up with their own rules as to what they will and won't accept as back-up information.

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

But surely that's the point?

Phuket Immigration have (apparently) already said that they will only accept govt. pensions as back up proof of income, and another poster has said that Hua Hin Immigration are also coming up with their own rules as to what they will and won't accept as back-up information.

Phuket already does things differently than other offices. Thay have been asking for proof of how you are bringing the money into the country.

Hua Hin was also verbal and nothing written. They also mentioned January.

Until the Immigration Bureau comes out with something nothing will be official.

[dick dasterdly]

20 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

But surely that's the point?

 

Phuket Immigration have (apparently) already said that they will only accept govt. pensions as back up proof of income, and another poster has said that Hua Hin Immigration are also coming up with their own rules as to what they will and won't accept as back-up information.

 

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Phuket already does things differently than other offices. Thay have been asking for proof of how you are bringing the money into the country.

Hua Hin was also verbal and nothing written. They also mentioned January.

Until the Immigration Bureau comes out with something nothing will be official.

And even if the Immigration Bureau come out with something, we're still at the mercy of individual offices who (as you point out) apply their own rules!

[Ron19]

An off topic post that could possibly confuse members has been reported and removed.

[jimn]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Management is trying to set up a meeting with them.

A was asked what was needed from them. I told them we need some info about it and what will be needed if you cannot get income proof from your embassy since nothing had been announced by them.

I used my situation as an example. What do I use next August to apply for 12th extension based upon marriage since I apparently will not have a income affidavit.

A question concerning me and a number of people UJ is will they accept proof of income into a foriegn bank account. This is key to me. I am on a retirement extension but only stay in Thailand 7 months returning home to the UK for 5 months. Its not practicle for me to transfer 12 x 65k into my Thai account as when I go back to the UK I would have nothing to live on. Also the income letter now is based on GROSS not NET income which would be the case with a transfer of 65k into a Thai account. If these could be questions asked I would be grateful. Thank you

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, jimn said:

A question concerning me and a number of people UJ is will they accept proof of income into a foriegn bank account. This is key to me. I am on a retirement extension but only stay in Thailand 7 months returning home to the UK for 5 months. Its not practicle for me to transfer 12 x 65k into my Thai account as when I go back to the UK I would have nothing to live on. Also the income letter now is based on GROSS not NET income which would be the case with a transfer of 65k into a Thai account. If these could be questions asked I would be grateful. Thank you

I don't think they would be able to answer such detailed questions about it at the meeting. It is just to get some kind of confirmation of what they will be doing. Such details would come out when they do a written directive or more than likely a change to the police order.