China, Japan to forge closer ties at 'historic turning point'

[rooster59]

China, Japan to forge closer ties at 'historic turning point'

By Norihiko Shirouzu and Philip Wen

 

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe attend a welcome ceremony outside the Great Hall of the People in Beijing, China October 26, 2018. REUTERS/Thomas Peter

 

BEIJING (Reuters) - China and Japan on Friday pledged to forge closer ties as both countries stood together at an "historic turning point", signing a broad range of agreements including a $30 billion currency swap pact, amid rising trade tensions with Washington.

 

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Chinese Premier Li Keqiang also agreed the two countries would work together to achieve denuclearisation on the Korean Peninsula.

 

The pacts were reached on Abe's three-day visit to Beijing as the two neighbours looked to carve out new areas of cooperation and seek ways to promote trust, which has been fragile at times since diplomatic relations resumed in 1972.

 

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang said 500 business deals worth $18 billion had been signed between Chinese and Japanese companies during the visit, a reflection of the "bright prospects" for cooperation between the two countries.

 

"From competition to co-existence, Japan and China bilateral relations have entered a new phase. Hand in hand with Premier Li, I would like to advance our ties forward," Abe told reporters after the pair met on Friday morning.

 

Both countries are neighbours and partners, and will not become a threat to each other, Abe said after meeting with President Xi Jinping on Friday in the first full-scale Sino-Japanese summit since 2011.

 

"With President Xi Jinping, I would like to carve out a new era for China and Japan," Abe said.

 

Xi said bilateral ties had returned to the right track and China would ensure the positive momentum continues, according to state media.

 

"That is worth cherishing by both sides," Xi said.

 

Both sides should undertake more in-depth strategic dialogue, Xi said, adding that exchanges between ordinary Japanese and Chinese people should also be stepped up to foster deeper mutual understanding.

 

"Both sides should accurately grasp each other's strategic intent, and implement what was agreed - that both sides will become partners, both sides will pose no threats to each other," Xi said.

 

Abe invited Xi to visit Japan next year. Xi said he would "seriously consider" a visit, a Japanese government spokesman told reporters in Beijing.

 

"My impression is that President Xi responded positively. We need to nail down a date now," he said.

 

TERRITORIAL DISPUTE

 

Abe returned to power in 2012 when Sino-Japanese ties were in tatters due to a feud over East China Sea islands, and the territorial dispute remains a key source of friction between the two countries.

 

Nishimura said Abe told Premier Li during their meeting that there would be "no genuine improvement" in bilateral ties unless there was "stability in the East China Sea".

 

Japanese firms including big auto companies like Toyota <7203.T> hope to see normalised ties with China so they can compete with U.S. and European rivals, while Beijing expects Tokyo's endorsement of its ambitious Belt and Road programme, an initiative that Xi hopes will further boost trade and transport links with other countries.

 

Abe also said Tokyo was "determined" to normalise diplomatic relations with Pyongyang, but only if preconditions were met, including denuclearisation and the release of kidnapped Japanese citizens.

 

"Our two countries bear large responsibility in achieving peace and stability in this region," Abe said.

 

Efforts in advancing China-Japan ties should "persevere unremittingly to prevent the appearance of new twists and turns" so that previous efforts did not go to waste, said Li at a joint briefing with Abe on Friday.

 

"The Chinese side is willing to work with the Japanese side to return to a normal track, and maintain the stable, sustained and healthy development of bilateral relations," he said, adding that he had held candid discussions with Abe since his arrival on matters of mutual concerns.

 

They reached consensus, Li said, that safeguarding long-term healthy and stable China-Japan ties was in accordance with the interests of both countries and the region and the world.

 

The move to boost economic ties came as China and the United States slap tit-for-tat tariffs on each other in recent months. Japan is at risk as it exports to China manufacturing equipment and electronic parts, which are used to make finished goods for the United States and other markets.

 

While Japan, worried about China's growing naval power, is keen for closer economic ties with its biggest trading partner, it must manage that rapprochement without upsetting its key security ally, the United States, with which it has trade problems of its own.

 

Ahead of the briefing, China and Japan signed an agreement to boost cooperation in the securities markets including the listing of exchange-trade funds (ETFs), and facilitate smoother customs clearance.

 

The two sides also signed a currency swap agreement of up to 3.4 trillion yen ($30.29 billion), effective until 2021. A deal towards establishing a yuan clearing bank was also inked.

 

Li said both sides had agreed that as major countries, China and Japan should uphold free trade and accelerate talks on the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) and on a China-Japan-Korea trade zone.

 

RCEP is a free trade agreement proposed by China with Southeast Asia and various countries on the Pacific Rim including Japan

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-10-27

[Kiwiken]

It is a normal thing to Sea Asian Countries expanding Trade relations. As America seeks to bully so new blocks will be forged. Early days yet

[Srinivas]

multi polar world emerging. good.

 

[mfd101]

Usofan allies and friends in the western Pacific repositioning themselves for a more complex future. Even Canberra is scratching its head & wondering how to wriggle a bit more cleverly ...

[Brunolem]

15 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Usofan allies and friends in the western Pacific repositioning themselves for a more complex future. Even Canberra is scratching its head & wondering how to wriggle a bit more cleverly ...

Because there is a head in Canberra?

 

Or maybe you mean the captain in charge of the USS Australia, the largest American aircraft carrier...

 

The future will not be complex, it will simply not be...and the good general is probably a bit optimistic with his 15 years...

 

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/10/24/us-war-with-china-is-likely-in-15-years-retired-general-says/

 

[Kiwiken]

18 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Because there is a head in Canberra?

 

Or maybe you mean the captain in charge of the USS Australia, the largest American aircraft carrier...

 

The future will not be complex, it will simply not be...and the good general is probably a bit optimistic with his 15 years...

 

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/10/24/us-war-with-china-is-likely-in-15-years-retired-general-says/

 

I very much doubt that it would be the Chinese that fire the first shot. Theirs is an economic strategy not a military one

[Ulic]

China, the python of Asia, silent, powerful, patient, and deadly. All countries should beware. China thinks, plans and commits long-term. Not election cycles. Be cautious of who you get into bed with. Whether the US of China. Each has its own agenda. 

[Brunolem]

41 minutes ago, Kiwiken said:

I very much doubt that it would be the Chinese that fire the first shot. Theirs is an economic strategy not a military one

The strategy with China is the same as with Russia: bully, hoping that they will react with brute force!

 

Yet both Putin and Xi are better chess players than Trump and his coterie of neocons, they see through their game and have no intention of falling into their trap.

 

Having said that, at some point, a war will start because history shows that empires don't go down without a fight...

 

 

[Srinivas]

2 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

The strategy with China is the same as with Russia: bully, hoping that they will react with brute force!

 

Yet both Putin and Xi are better chess players than Trump and his coterie of neocons, they see through their game and have no intention of falling into their trap.

 

Having said that, at some point, a war will start because history shows that empires don't go down without a fight...

 

 

Soviets went down without a major war. lets hope trump/usa can get lose from neo con grip 

[Kiwiken]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

The strategy with China is the same as with Russia: bully, hoping that they will react with brute force!

 

Yet both Putin and Xi are better chess players than Trump and his coterie of neocons, they see through their game and have no intention of falling into their trap.

 

Having said that, at some point, a war will start because history shows that empires don't go down without a fight...

 

 

But who has an Empire? China is as yet only preoccupied with historical China. Russia despite all other statements by others is thus far only in territory that was Tsarist Russia. So what is the Empire you are saying will not go down without a fight?

[metisdead]

A troll post containing an intentional misspelling of Trump's name has been removed.  If you don't want your posts to be removed, spell people's names correctly. 

[Brunolem]

2 hours ago, Srinivas said:

Soviets went down without a major war. lets hope trump/usa can get lose from neo con grip 

The Soviets went down because their economic system was unsustainable and was reaching the end of its rope, as is now the Western system, albeit for completely different reasons.

 

Trump is actually shaking a very fragile system, by mindlessly imposing sanctions and tariffs, that will backfire on the US because everything is connected in a globalized world.

 

Something is going to give...maybe it has already started...that could keep the American pyromaniac busy at home (think 2008 squarred), and divert it from its war path...

[Srinivas]

29 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

The Soviets went down because their economic system was unsustainable and was reaching the end of its rope, as is now the Western system, albeit for completely different reasons.

 

Trump is actually shaking a very fragile system, by mindlessly imposing sanctions and tariffs, that will backfire on the US because everything is connected in a globalized world.

 

Something is going to give...maybe it has already started...that could keep the American pyromaniac busy at home (think 2008 squarred), and divert it from its war path...

lets hope. plenty of brush to clear at home, especially to financially restructure and reengage without big war. 

OT but related, when Xi was vp of china, he made an unannouced visit to Japan and was given immediate access to the emporer. many jp politicians were angry as they were not informed and this meeting did not follow protocol.

Also that #2 of china meeting the emporer without requesting access from Jp political establishment showed where true power lies in Jp.

We(friends) speculated at that time that when US hold on Japans foreign policy diminishes, they Jp/Ch will negotiate their own terms and perhaps that meeting

had a bigger meaning. China is most important market for Japan and China could provide Aib loans and underwrite Japans needed debt restructuring.

Lots of Chinese grad students in Japan these days too. 

 

[Credo]

The choice of alliances is limited.   I would guess it is better for Japan to have a stern master rather than an insane one.

[Brunolem]

9 hours ago, Srinivas said:

lets hope. plenty of brush to clear at home, especially to financially restructure and reengage without big war. 

 

This is an interesting documentary involving China, Japan and the US.

 

If Japan wants to be more independent and closer to China, it will have to get rid of this poisonous US base in Okinawa...

 

 

 

[mfd101]

36 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

this poisonous US base in Okinawa...

... has helped to keep the peace in the whole region for over 70 years. No reason why it can't continue to do so, but it does require ALL parties to be sane, intelligent & well-informed. [The latter of course is what espionage is for - to keep the peace.]

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, mfd101 said:

... has helped to keep the peace in the whole region for over 70 years. No reason why it can't continue to do so, but it does require ALL parties to be sane, intelligent & well-informed. [The latter of course is what espionage is for - to keep the peace.]

When the native people, the Japanese from Okinawa in this case, don't want a foreign base on their territory, as they are entitled to, then they are "occupied" rather than "protected".

 

Generally speaking, the US is the uncontested champion when it comes to use the protection racket in order to force his policies upon other countries.

 

[Srinivas]

5 hours ago, Brunolem said:

This is an interesting documentary involving China, Japan and the US.

 

If Japan wants to be more independent and closer to China, it will have to get rid of this poisonous US base in Okinawa...

 

 

 

Thx, will watch tonight.

Also check out some conferences on "air sea battle doctrine" on youtube

This military doctrine requires first strike by usa before China reachs military parity for USA to maintain its dominant position,,and,containment strategy.

Without Philippines on board, the containment wall now has a big gap. So perhaps no more airsea doctrine 

 

[Morch]

On 10/27/2018 at 9:21 PM, Brunolem said:

The Soviets went down because their economic system was unsustainable and was reaching the end of its rope, as is now the Western system, albeit for completely different reasons.

 

Trump is actually shaking a very fragile system, by mindlessly imposing sanctions and tariffs, that will backfire on the US because everything is connected in a globalized world.

 

Something is going to give...maybe it has already started...that could keep the American pyromaniac busy at home (think 2008 squarred), and divert it from its war path...

 

And you somehow assume that shaking this fragile system will bring about the demise of the US....rather than have a more dire effect on other countries. Not that I'm expecting anything other than the usual anti-US rhetoric out of some posters, but sometimes the nonsense spewed needs to be pointed out.

[Morch]

On 10/28/2018 at 8:05 AM, Brunolem said:

This is an interesting documentary involving China, Japan and the US.

 

If Japan wants to be more independent and closer to China, it will have to get rid of this poisonous US base in Okinawa...

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, sure, Pilger. Just the source for getting an objective, unbiased take on the US.

[Brunolem]

12 hours ago, Morch said:

 

And you somehow assume that shaking this fragile system will bring about the demise of the US....rather than have a more dire effect on other countries. Not that I'm expecting anything other than the usual anti-US rhetoric out of some posters, but sometimes the nonsense spewed needs to be pointed out.

And you think that the demise of other countries, such as China, would have no effect on the US?

 

In a highly globalized/integrated economy, the domino effect is in full play...as we saw in 2008, and as we will see even more clearly next time...

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Brunolem said:

And you think that the demise of other countries, such as China, would have no effect on the US?

 

In a highly globalized/integrated economy, the domino effect is in full play...as we saw in 2008, and as we will see even more clearly next time...

 

Kindly cite where I said anything resembling the nonsense you tried attributing to me. If there is, indeed, a  monumental global crisis coming up, then it will almost by definition, effect all/most countries. Asserting that it would spell the demise of the US is more like wishful thinking, with regard to some posters.

 

I don't think the US is anywhere near as fragile as some of you lot seem to imagine. Maybe you're into this whole words-create-reality thing, I dunno.

[Brunolem]

37 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Kindly cite where I said anything resembling the nonsense you tried attributing to me. If there is, indeed, a  monumental global crisis coming up, then it will almost by definition, effect all/most countries. Asserting that it would spell the demise of the US is more like wishful thinking, with regard to some posters.

 

I don't think the US is anywhere near as fragile as some of you lot seem to imagine. Maybe you're into this whole words-create-reality thing, I dunno.

The US economy is built on a mountain of debt...public, corporate and private...thus very fragile.

 

Let me quote again Ludwig von Mises:

 

There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.

[bristolboy]

8 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

The US economy is built on a mountain of debt...public, corporate and private...thus very fragile.

 

Let me quote again Ludwig von Mises:

 

There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.

Since ww2 supporters of von mises have been predicting financial disaster. Maybe they should rename the Von Mises Institute. Call it the Stopped Clock Institute.

[Brunolem]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Since ww2 supporters of von mises have been predicting financial disaster. Maybe they should rename the Von Mises Institute. Call it the Stopped Clock Institute.

And since WWIi, especially since 1971, it has been a cycle of booms (bubbles) and busts, with each being bigger than the previous one.

 

Considering the size of the last bust in 2008, and the size of the actual bubble(s), the next bust is going to be a doozy!

 

Why do you think that many central banks are piling gold like mad?

 

Why do you think that super wealthy bankers and finance players are buying land and houses in remote locations (New Zealand being a favorite), when it's not in underground bunkers?

 

Are they all insane, or being insiders among insiders, do they have a pretty good idea of what's coming?

 

[Morch]

28 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

The US economy is built on a mountain of debt...public, corporate and private...thus very fragile.

 

Let me quote again Ludwig von Mises:

 

There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.

 

And your arguments are built on a mountain of BS. It is not as if the US is a poor country or lacks resources. Right now, and for a while now, it's been doing one thing. If circumstances change, the US will adjust and do another. Unlike other countries, the US is robust enough to weather storm. That you wish it otherwise, and engage in doomsday nonsense is immaterial.

 

As pointed out above, people have been predicting the demise of the US, the collapse of global economy, the changing of the US dollar as the coin of choice and whatnot - for a long time. Wish I had a buck for every time I've heard such nonsense.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

And since WWIi, especially since 1971, it has been a cycle of booms (bubbles) and busts, with each being bigger than the previous one.

 

Considering the size of the last bust in 2008, and the size of the actual bubble(s), the next bust is going to be a doozy!

 

Why do you think that many central banks are piling gold like mad?

 

Why do you think that super wealthy bankers and finance players are buying land and houses in remote locations (New Zealand being a favorite), when it's not in underground bunkers?

 

Are they all insane, or being insiders among insiders, do they have a pretty good idea of what's coming?

 

 

Why do you think that anyone buys into your claims as real? Why do you think that even if they were, it would necessarily imply the full-blown doomsday nonsense you push? People hedging their bets, and securing alternatives is not the same as asserting the sky if about to fall.

[Brunolem]

19 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Why do you think that anyone buys into your claims as real? Why do you think that even if they were, it would necessarily imply the full-blown doomsday nonsense you push? People hedging their bets, and securing alternatives is not the same as asserting the sky if about to fall.

Not MY claims...this can be easily confirmed with some research on internet.

 

Generally speaking, most people stay in denial as long as they are not personally impacted by the issues they deny.

 

Global warming, what global warming? I live in Toronto and we are not able to grow coconuts!

 

Too much debt, what debt? I have no debt and a nice portfolio rising by 10% every year!

 

Poisonous food and cancer epidemic, what are you talking about? Everyone in my family is in perfectly good health, we shop at the farmers market and count our calories.

 

Such way of thinking is why nothing is done to change tack and avoid the icebergs right in the front of the ship...

 

People hedging their bets? central banks are not people, why are they suddenly piling gold after having spent decades getting rid of it? why do they need also to hedge their bets now?

 

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

And your arguments are built on a mountain of BS. It is not as if the US is a poor country or lacks resources. Right now, and for a while now, it's been doing one thing. If circumstances change, the US will adjust and do another. Unlike other countries, the US is robust enough to weather storm. 

 

Resources, robust enough?

What are the figures behind these statements?

 

Debts are numbers...they need to be compensated/covered with numbers, not wishful thinking.

 

Most of the American wealth could not be used to cover debt payments...national parks? monuments? mines? cities? ports?

 

As far as I remember, in 2008, the only thing the US could put forward to stop the hemorrhaging was...money created out of thin air by its central banks to the tune of trillions of dollars!

 

There were no resources to sell and no plan B to change direction, since the only solution offered was to do...more of the same!

 

So there we are, ten years later, with double the debts, bigger bubbles and no sign that the country is going to change its ways and start leaving within its means...on the contrary!

 

[Morch]

37 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Not MY claims...this can be easily confirmed with some research on internet.

 

Generally speaking, most people stay in denial as long as they are not personally impacted by the issues they deny.

 

Global warming, what global warming? I live in Toronto and we are not able to grow coconuts!

 

Too much debt, what debt? I have no debt and a nice portfolio rising by 10% every year!

 

Poisonous food and cancer epidemic, what are you talking about? Everyone in my family is in perfectly good health, we shop at the farmers market and count our calories.

 

Such way of thinking is why nothing is done to change tack and avoid the icebergs right in the front of the ship...

 

People hedging their bets? central banks are not people, why are they suddenly piling gold after having spent decades getting rid of it? why do they need also to hedge their bets now?

 

 

Oh yeah, "research", the go to bogus term when one can't readily support his argument on these forums. So far, most of the sources you do bother to quote are mostly associated with the same bias your display day in day out - not particularly compelling or convincing.

 

The rest of your nonsense is the usual deflection tactic deployed - general in nature, irrelevant to points raised and discussion at hand. Just hot air, is all.

 

Once again, there's no particular reason to accept your assertions as real. There's no particular reason to accept your interpretations as realistic.