Income Affidavit Denied in Phuket

[Ebumbu]

2 hours ago, Wake Up said:

Thereafter it is 800 k in a Thai bank or 65K a month deposited into a Thai bank every month. The money can come from anywhere and does not need to be from overseas. 

That would be a relief for next year. What's to stop the "recycling" method of moving money around? I guess they don't care. 

I wonder if they will accept the combo method, and if they mean literally 65k every month. Next year, I better ensure that 65k hits the Thai account each month, by hook or by crook. 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Ebumbu

[sometimewoodworker]

9 hours ago, Wake Up said:

Thereafter it is 800 k in a Thai bank or 65K a month deposited into a Thai bank every month. The money can come from anywhere and does not need to be from overseas. 

So far there has been no official word on the usability of money deposits into a thai bank account. So until there is you are only guessing.

 

The only sure thing for anyone applying for an extension after around the middle of June is money in the bank. 

 

There is one piece of good news and that is that you may be able to apply earlier than usual this year, though if that is correct there has been no official announcement yet.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

There is one piece of good news and that is that you may be able to apply earlier than usual this year, though if that is correct there has been no official announcement yet.

 

That's what the American Embassy has said in their public statement/documents.

 

But whether every Immigration office knows that and intends to honor that is a different question, as is the detail of just how much earlier than normal might be allowed. All unknowns right now.

 

[Sheryl]

So you're saying that you keep 800k minimum in your Thai bank for 3 months before you apply for your extension, and Thai Immigration STILL want to see evidence of that money coming into Thailand from elsewhere.....?
If this is to become a common requirement across all Imm offices then it will impact many others. 

Yes. But it is not a new requirement and indeed I have not asked again if they still require it. They did the first year I reported there (after previously reporting elsewhere) and I have just continued to do it each year.

As it is nothing new I would not worry about "spread". The point of my post was simply HOW one can get a bank letter confirming funds came from abroad in the case if those whose bank books don't indicate, uf one needs to establush that fact.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Sheryl]

I use an FX company (World first) not an expensive bank to send money to my Kasikorn bank. No paperwork of the sort you show is routinely generated,just an entry in my bank book with a 'BNT' and some numbers shown in the right hand column headed 'Teller number '. Does this signify (and would immigration understand) that this relates to overseas transfers? If not, could Kasikorn retrospectively produce documentation for either this purpose or for the purposes of proving I’d brought the money in should I ever wish to repatriate funds? 
On a separate note,all this uncertainty about income letters is simply giving self important IOs the opportunity to grandstand,flex their muscles and put their own interpretation on things. 

Are you sure no credit advice is generated? You would not know unless you ask. It does not come to you or your branch otherwise, just stays on file at the bank HQ.

As an aside what does this company charge as transfer fee for around US $25?

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 hours ago, Wake Up said:

 65K a month deposited into a Thai bank every month. The money can come from anywhere and does not need to be from overseas. 

 

Did the CW Immigration supervisor you spoke with specifically tell you the part about 65K needing to be deposited into a Thai bank account every month, or are you making the presumption that that's what they're going to require?

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Chongalulu]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Are you sure no credit advice is generated? You would not know unless you ask. It does not come to you or your branch otherwise, just stays on file at the bank HQ.

As an aside what does this company charge as transfer fee for around US $25?

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

No,I haven’t asked because I’ve not needed it so that could be the case. However I recently registered for online banking and since my post looked at the online statements and rather oddly (and perhaps worryingly) it posts against the deposit 'Domestic Transfer' which it really isn’t. I’m wondering if the transfer from the point I instruct it on the website first goes to another bank within Thailand and thence to my account...but this is not an unusual method with FX transfers. I may have to do further investigations with the bank to clarify this.

World first charges no transfer fees and their rates are around 1/2 baht less per £ than the full interbank rate (so around 1%) which is pretty good. I notice Kasikorn doesn’t credit the full amount in baht that the fx company advises it is sending nor does it indicate a separate deduction fee but the difference amounts to around 0.1% of amount sent,again I understand this is normal with banks here.

I transfer at least £1000 per transaction and don’t think it’s designed for amounts as tiny as $25,if that’s indeed what you meant?

Hope that helps?

[dick dasterdly]

20 hours ago, stevenl said:

Phuket is on a regular basis asking for proof of money spent locally. I don't think this is connected to the UK and US income verification letter saga at all.

"Phuket is on a regular basis asking for proof of money spent locally."

 

I have lived on Phuket for many years and never been asked for the above.  Quite apart from anything else, it seems unlikely - as how on earth does one prove "money spent locally"??!

 

Or do you mean that Phuket Immigration regularly ask for a copy of Thai bank book pages and ATM card? 

Edited November 2, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Wake Up]

10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Did the CW Immigration supervisor you spoke with specifically tell you the part about 65K needing to be deposited into a Thai bank account every month, or are you making the presumption that that's what they're going to require?

 

 

 

She specifically told me that.  She knew all of this before the USA embassy made their announcement. 

[Dumbastheycome]

Where is the  surprise in this  issue? It has been clearly acknowledged  that  both  the  US and UK affirmations  of income were being  rubber stamped in general. 

That the Thai  authorities are/ have been aware of this  and  no longer will accept is a  no brainer in the context of  legitimate submissions  for extensions etc. 

Australia  now joins the frey.

The  debate  about this  should focus  not  on Thai requirements  for legitimacy of income  but  rather on why  Consulate/Embassies are  now  declining  to  do affirmations  honestly.

Given that in this electronic  age of interfaced  governmental systems should  be a simple  process.

The probable  explanation is  that the  distribution  of  national  currency reserves  for individuals is deemed waste whilst the  copious distribution  of vast currency  via   multi national  corporations is to  select advantage !

Never  forget to remember...the currency  of  a Nation  is  the  property  of  that  Nation.  You are simply  permitted  to  use  it . As is your   "Passport".

 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

6 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Where is the  surprise in this  issue? It has been clearly acknowledged  that  both  the  US and UK affirmations  of income were being  rubber stamped in general. 

Wrong. The US didn't require proof that is true. The UK did require documents showing the income.

 

Maybe some people had the ability to provide fakes to the UK embassy, there have been no reports of fakes being accepted.

[moontang]

24 month fixed deposit....2.5% at CIMB.....50K-1 million.....interest paid monthly.....good for November...I was in the branch today...not 1000% certain, just saw the sign, and the boss told me she would do it...only getting 3.05% in the US on a 24 month...

[nick]

On 11/1/2018 at 4:28 PM, stevenl said:

Phuket is on a regular basis asking for proof of money spent locally. I don't think this is connected to the UK and US income verification letter saga at all.

The "locally" thing never happened to me regardless of being a "routine". BTW what? Are you supposed to keep every single purchase slip from a cashier?? Is your name on a slip??

 

[moontang]

2 minutes ago, nick said:

The "locally" thing never happened to me regardless of being a "routine". BTW what? Are you supposed to keep every single purchase slip from a cashier?? Is your name on a slip??

 

agreed, and it is often better to pay with CC if the rate is better than what you got on your recent transfer,,and have a good card.

 

And in fact, consumer protection is way better for us cards....I simply tell them who has screwed me...And that sure did get their attention at Gnome Throw, when the drill I bought failed on the second use...went from a 45 day refund to 7 days..in about 10 seconds.

Edited November 2, 2018 by moontang

[Dumbastheycome]

33 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Wrong. The US didn't require proof that is true. The UK did require documents showing the income.

 

Maybe some people had the ability to provide fakes to the UK embassy, there have been no reports of fakes being accepted.

So  there  is evidence  known and  verifiable  by yourself  of  "fakes"  being  denied?

[ElephantEgo]

UPDATE ON THE SITUATION IN PHUKET

 

I spent this morning at the bank collecting evidence to support my foreign income affidavit. I obtained:

• bank statement
• letter about my very significant balance
• Foreign exhange credit advice slips showing I brought in 4 transactions totaling >480,000 THB (to equal the sum of 40,000 THB x 12)
• updated passbook

In the afternoon however, I arrived upstairs at the Phuket immigration office, and the nice German Volunteer, to paraphrase said: "Your the American!?" Turns out she had been following this thread! Thus I was glad I did not have to explain myself again. She said they "had a meeting this morning with everyone and we were told that ONLY GOVERNMENT INCOME will be accepted support evidence for the income affidavits, and possibly military income. ALL OTHER FORMS OF FOREIGN INCOME will NOT be RELIABLY ACCEPTED as VALID EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT INCOME AFFIDAVITS."  She said there was a "maybe" for non-government types of oversees income transferred into Thailand (say for example if you own a business oversees) but "you can't do ANYTHING with this maybe," meaning it could easily get denied and that would of course be a problem...

 

She emphasized that ONLY the government incomes will be recognized and others sources CANNOT BE CONSIDERED RELIABLE OR ADVISABLE. This was the clear advice and direction of the upper level officers at the immigration in Phuket, in speaking to the subordinate officers and volunteers, from what I am told and understood. After this, I spoke a bit with her about my plans to let the 400,000 sit for 2 months now, while I extend my visa for 2 months once nearing expiry (important to wait for it to be nearing expiry) and I thanked the volunteer. The kind volunteer was sad about the whole situation unfortunately, because only days ago she had been telling visitors: "the affidavits are still okay for now" which turned quickly to be incorrect.

 

Conclusion:

Unless you have some kind of government pension or work for your home government, forget about it in Phuket! Your only safe route is to use the 400,000/800,000 THB "seasoning" method to let it sit in your account for 2 months before you can go apply. If you are running out of time and haven't done a 2 month extension already on your current visa, you can use a 2-3 month extension to help you buy time for the money to sit in your account. You can apply after two months of the funds sitting in your account.

 

As there has been a lot of confusion recently, I hope the above information is helpful.

Edited November 2, 2018 by JakeR

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post.

[Ebumbu]

4 hours ago, JakeR said:

If you are running out of time and haven't done a 2 month extension already on your current visa, you can use a 2-3 month extension to help you buy time for the money to sit in your account. You can apply after two months of the funds sitting in your account.

 

Thank you very much. 

 

Unfortunately, as expected. One question please. I have a Type O visa for reasons of retirement. It comes up for extension in December. I'm American. The original visa is from 2015. How can I get a 2-3 month extension to buy time? I never heard of that. The extensions have been one year every time.

 

Please explain the 2-3 month option on a so-called retirement visa that expires in December 2018. Not understanding this detail. Could be helpful. Thank you. 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Ebumbu

[lopburi3]

3 hours ago, Ebumbu said:

Please explain the 2-3 month option on a so-called retirement visa that expires in December 2018. Not understanding this detail. Could be helpful. Thank you. 

Poster has a Thai wife so has the additional option to extend current stay 2 months to visit wife - nothing to do with retirement but can be used at the end of any permitted stay.

[Ron19]

This whole situation has come about through people abusing the system in the past.

I have been advised to go to my embassy and make a false declaration of income and 

you will get away with it. I have no doubt that has been the case and decided not to go 

down that path.

[JackThompson]

12 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

The  debate  about this  should focus  not  on Thai requirements  for legitimacy of income  but  rather on why  Consulate/Embassies are  now  declining  to  do affirmations  honestly.

It's Against The Law due to privacy and other laws in those countries.  Those are good laws.  Our govts pry into our private matters far too much as-is. 

 

The affirmations were as honest as those swearing to them - to the extent they didn't want to commit a Felony offense to do so.  If that's not good enough for Thai Immigration anymore, it is they who have moved the goalposts.

 

What we need to know, is what Thai Immigration will accept next year (after the last letters expire).  Proof of Deposits only?  Only foreign-sourced Deposits?  Deposits and proof of pension-incomes only?  Deposits and proof of any type of income?

 

7 hours ago, JakeR said:

She said they "had a meeting this morning with everyone and we were told that ONLY GOVERNMENT INCOME will be accepted support evidence for the income affidavits, and possibly military income. ALL OTHER FORMS OF FOREIGN INCOME will NOT be RELIABLY ACCEPTED as VALID EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT INCOME AFFIDAVITS."  

Let's hope this is not the "new standard" for all offices in Thailand. 

[dick dasterdly]

7 hours ago, JakeR said:

UPDATE ON THE SITUATION IN PHUKET

<snip>

She said they "had a meeting this morning with everyone and we were told that ONLY GOVERNMENT INCOME will be accepted support evidence for the income affidavits, and possibly military income. ALL OTHER FORMS OF FOREIGN INCOME will NOT be RELIABLY ACCEPTED as VALID EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT INCOME AFFIDAVITS."  She said there was a "maybe" for non-government types of oversees income transferred into Thailand (say for example if you own a business oversees) but "you can't do ANYTHING with this maybe," meaning it could easily get denied and that would of course be a problem...

 

She emphasized that ONLY the government incomes will be recognized and others sources CANNOT BE CONSIDERED RELIABLE OR ADVISABLE. This was the clear advice and direction of the upper level officers at the immigration in Phuket, in speaking to the subordinate officers and volunteers, from what I am told and understood. After this, I spoke a bit with her about my plans to let the 400,000 sit for 2 months now, while I extend my visa for 2 months once nearing expiry (important to wait for it to be nearing expiry) and I thanked the volunteer. The kind volunteer was sad about the whole situation unfortunately, because only days ago she had been telling visitors: "the affidavits are still okay for now" which turned quickly to be incorrect.

 

Conclusion:

Unless you have some kind of government pension or work for your home government, forget about it in Phuket! Your only safe route is to use the 400,000/800,000 THB "seasoning" method to let it sit in your account for 2 months before you can go apply. If you are running out of time and haven't done a 2 month extension already on your current visa, you can use a 2-3 month extension to help you buy time for the money to sit in your account. You can apply after two months of the funds sitting in your account.

 

As there has been a lot of confusion recently, I hope the above information is helpful.

Many thanks for the update Jake, but it sounds as if Phuket Immigration are making an already difficult situation even more difficult if they've unilaterally decided that a proof of income letter will only be accepted if the income is from a govt./military pension!

 

This info. needs to be made public somehow, otherwise a lot of people are going to get a nasty shock when trying to extend their visa before the expected cut off date in June.

Edited November 3, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[sometimewoodworker]

12 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

So  there  is evidence  known and  verifiable  by yourself  of  "fakes"  being  denied?

I did not say that, don't put words in my mouth.

 

I said.

 

13 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Maybe some people had the ability to provide fakes to the UK embassy, there have been no reports of fakes being accepted.

With programs like Quark people can produce a document that appeared on the face of it to be 100% genuine, the only way of proving it to be a fake would be to check with the issuing authority.

 

So the possibility exists (take a look at the "Degree certificates" and other documents available in the usual places) that fakes can be purchased or made.

 

I haven't had any reason to bother as my 400k is happy in a Thai bank.

[sometimewoodworker]

8 hours ago, JakeR said:

If you are running out of time and haven't done a 2 month extension already on your current visa, you can use a 2-3 month extension

AFIK There is no 3 month extension to a permission to stay 

 

AFIK there is a 30 day extension (if not married to a Thai) and a 60 day extension (if married to a thai) both are available one time only related to an entry to Thailand without a reentry permit (this entry permission to stay may have been extended multiple times)

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

AFIK there is a 30 day extension (if not married to a Thai) and a 60 day extension (if married to a thai) both are available one time only related to an entry to Thailand without a reentry permit (this entry permission to stay may have been extended multiple times)

There is no 30 day extension for a non immigrant visa entry or a long stay extension of one. There is only a 60 day extension to visit a Thai wife or child.

[Tanoshi]

14 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Maybe some people had the ability to provide fakes to the UK embassy, there have been no reports of fakes being accepted.

Not so much fakes, but some dubious amounts and calculations entered on the forms.

 

 

[pontious]

This post started Wednesday and I assume Phuket have done many extensions since then. Has anyone else reported problems like the OP?

OP did you phone immigration hotline?

[Pattaya46]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

// the only way of proving it to be a fake would be to check with the issuing authority.

Yes, and how is that a problem for American people ?

Several countries have a system that allow to compare the document (or copy) you get with the real one generated by the governmental service website. A very quick check.

[alphason]

Unless anything changes it seems the only sure way of getting an annual extension for now is by having the 400/800K on deposit.

 

If change to money on deposit has anyone specifically at Phuket been turned away because it does not show as new money from overseas?

 

I have some towards my extension here in different accounts already but nothing to show it came from outside Thailand, I am thinking I would consolodate this together into a new account and keep it there for extensions, topping up with a foreign transfer (transferwise) to reach the required amount each year. I read that technically it does not have to be shown as new money from abroad but in reality is that acceptable to Phuket?

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Not so much fakes, but some dubious amounts and calculations entered on the forms.

 

 

How on earth do you know this to be the case??  Surely the BE can rustle up a calculator to check the calculations on the form??

 

In any event, this thread is about problems with Phuket Immigration apparently refusing to accept the embassy letter (even with supporting documentation), unless the income is from a govt. pension.

 

This is of huge concern to many living on Phuket and planning to use the proof of income method for extensions due prior to June '19.

 

If Phuket Immigration are already refusing income applications that don't meet their (unilateral) criteria, it would be better IMO to stick to the topic on this thread (i.e. Phuket Immigration requirements), and discuss the 'generalities' on the various other threads.