Income Affidavit Denied in Phuket

[Jimi007]

Immigration should accept a copy of my 50 page US tax return then, right? It proves my income and my marriage! Naw, that would be too easy! Oh and it's for the previous year... Funny the US Government accepts it though. Or how about my US bank statements? It's supposed to be income I receive in the USA right? Not what I get into my Thai account? But my Thai online bank statement shows at least $2K deposited from the US every month. Still not acceptable, although my income affidavit from the US Embassy was good for the past 13 years? Ridiculous! Hopefully they figure this out in the the next 6 months when I need a new extension. I guess I can always do a visa in the US and use my bank statements from here. The US Government seems to frown on overseas bank accounts and transfers of more than $20K at a time. I have been trying to not break US or Thai laws, but now what?

Edited November 6, 2018 by Jimi007

[PST]

2 hours ago, mercman24 said:

i just done my 90 day, the officer had seen that my yearly extension is due in November, he did not bat an eyelid, I CAN DO FOR YOU 16,000  BAHT,  i am good to go until Nov 2019 (hopefully after reading this) embassy letter + money in bank) which is on their OFFICIAL SITE , and i can see no mention of them changing this ruling, (OK it will change in the new years as to the embassy letter) oh a friend just got his yearly for 12,000 baht, and he has got jack shit money in the bank lol

16,000 and 12,000 baht for what exactly?

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, moontang said:

I am showing current TT Buy rate at BBL as 32.82...so if you sent 25000 through NYC, you would lose 10 bucks up front, and 500 THB on arrival..giving you..819,671.80....and your bank book would state FET.    Would have been 815,923 at the worst rate this week for TT.  I just checked tranferwise...you would get less than 818,000....32.975 with TW or 32.82 with BBL...BBL wins...

You only pay $10 for transfer through BKK bank.

The UK fee is £20 ($26) through BKK and you also have to consider the exchange rates, the USD being stronger against the BHT, than the £.

 

In your example it's currently best to transfer through BKK if a US citizen, but I've read transfers from the US using this method may soon be stopped ………. the UK will remain unaffected.

[CARLO BALDASSARRE]

Thailand elite ...looking better everyday....

Sent from my CPH1725 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[moontang]

58 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

You only pay $10 for transfer through BKK bank.

The UK fee is £20 ($26) through BKK and you also have to consider the exchange rates, the USD being stronger against the BHT, than the £.

 

In your example it's currently best to transfer through BKK if a US citizen, but I've read transfers from the US using this method may soon be stopped ………. the UK will remain unaffected.

The spread is narrower for the Dollar....I wonder if anyone has bought a condo with a tranferwise transfer...might be hard to get the form for the land office.

[moontang]

2 hours ago, Jimi007 said:

Immigration should accept a copy of my 50 page US tax return then, right? It proves my income and my marriage! Naw, that would be too easy! Oh and it's for the previous year... Funny the US Government accepts it though. Or how about my US bank statements? It's supposed to be income I receive in the USA right? Not what I get into my Thai account? But my Thai online bank statement shows at least $2K deposited from the US every month. Still not acceptable, although my income affidavit from the US Embassy was good for the past 13 years? Ridiculous! Hopefully they figure this out in the the next 6 months when I need a new extension. I guess I can always do a visa in the US and use my bank statements from here. The US Government seems to frown on overseas bank accounts and transfers of more than $20K at a time. I have been trying to not break US or Thai laws, but now what?

Anyone can fill out a tax form...anyone can print out w2...there would be no guarantee that you actually filed that version, either.

[merijn]

4 hours ago, OJAS said:

Maptaput's extra requirements include having to find a witness to accompany us to the immigration office at application time, and also be around when they do their home visit. And their witness and home visit requirements apply to each and every annual application, not just to the first one as I gather is generally the practice elsewhere. They have never required witnesses nor home visits for retirement extensions in my experience.

The witness (for marriage) and (possible) home visit is only done for the first extension. 

For all subsequent extensions the witness is not required.

[OJAS]

4 hours ago, merijn said:

The witness (for marriage) and (possible) home visit is only done for the first extension. 

For all subsequent extensions the witness is not required.

I have been assured by someone who has already been through the marriage extension process a couple of times at Maptaput that they do, in fact, require a witness and undertake a home visit each year, in stark contrast to the practice followed at most - if not all - other offices where, as you say, these are only needed for the first application.

 

@Tanoshi - but, you, of course, are far more concerned with implicitly levelling false personal accusations against me of laziness and lounging around all day on barstools in a particularly sneering, patronising and arrogant manner, aren't you?

Edited November 6, 2018 by OJAS

[moontang]

ironically, the last guy to tell me the 800k method was easier was sitting behind me in line at CM Immigration...at 4am...

Edited November 6, 2018 by moontang

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

@Tanoshi - but, you, of course, are far more concerned with implicitly levelling false personal accusations against me of laziness and lounging around all day on barstools in a particularly sneering, patronising and arrogant manner, aren't you? 

Oooooh! OJAS, you misinterpreted my meaning and I apologise if you felt my comment was in personal reference to yourself.

 

You stated the experience of a third party, who relayed his opinion to you.

What I'm saying is don't rely on the opinion of one persons experience.

Other than taking 4 photo's the other extra required documents will already be in your possession.

Visits are by appointment and they are not intrusive, or time consuming.

 

My reference 'That may be considered a hardship or hassle for some who struggle to get up off the barstool' was not directed at you personally. 

 

[CARLO BALDASSARRE]

On 10/31/2018 at 3:09 PM, ubonjoe said:

It seems they still accepted the income affidavit but they wanted back up proof for it. That has been asked for by Phuket immigration before.

It you have a total of 480k baht of income being transferred into your account over the past year it should be accepted since clause 2.18 of the police for states average income is allowed.

"(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year."

Hi,

     So where's the problem , i don't understand , if they require more do it /if they want you to jump a hoop do it .

     I like the new focus on pre requirements ,might get rid of some of these people living in thailand on the wrong visas and with the  incorrect prerequisites to obtain visas...( looks like the retirement visa in most cases are up setting alot of "Farangs").

I really feel sorry for the "Farangs" in thailand saying "I don't have the money for the retirement/marriage visa in a bank account ,

Why are you even in thailand ,Visa renewal every year /everybody wants to see money in the bank as requested!!!....I don't understand .....

                                          

[Jimi007]

41 minutes ago, CARLO BALDASSARRE said:

Hi,

     So where's the problem , i don't understand , if they require more do it /if they want you to jump a hoop do it .

     I like the new focus on pre requirements ,might get rid of some of these people living in thailand on the wrong visas and with the  incorrect prerequisites to obtain visas...( looks like the retirement visa in most cases are up setting alot of "Farangs").

I really feel sorry for the "Farangs" in thailand saying "I don't have the money for the retirement/marriage visa in a bank account ,

Why are you even in thailand ,Visa renewal every year /everybody wants to see money in the bank as requested!!!....I don't understand .....

                                          

I have most of my money in a bank account in the US, not in my Thai bank account. I transfer at least $2K USD a month, so that alone is about 800K Baht. I only live in Thailand about half the year, my US income was always accepted in the past, so why change it all after 13 years of doing it the same way? Why not accept my US bank statement? They do when I apply for an O visa in the US at the Thai Consulate.

[tgeezer]

You probably misunderstood her because if your bank book showed deposits averaging to 40,000bt. per month over the last year you would qualify. The fact of the matter is that you can’t change the past so do as she asks. Open a new bank account and after obtaining your extension you can begin the procedure of averaging 40,000 bt deposits in the new account to show next year if you don’t want to remain on the cash in bank option.

 

 This refers to JakeR ‘s original posted topic.

 

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[tgeezer]

Now that I have read a few more posts I see that the topic has probably been addressed well.
The confusion arises from equating cash in the bank for the coming year to last year’s income being sufficient for the coming year which is not logical. So guaranteed income is what should have been the condition, only a government pension or income from government bonds should qualify. Make up the shortfall by sacrificing some shares the dividends from which you have been calling income.
I have a pension letter from HMRC which I am sure the embassy would be more that happy to endorse for an exorbitant fee but why should that be necessary? Why can’t immigration learn to recognise a government pension document? I think that the problem is that Immigration has been too flexible in what they accept as income so that irrefutable evidence has got mixed up with questionable evidence and the only way an IO can see out is to demand cash.


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[OJAS]

10 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Oooooh! OJAS, you misinterpreted my meaning and I apologise if you felt my comment was in personal reference to yourself.

 

You stated the experience of a third party, who relayed his opinion to you.

What I'm saying is don't rely on the opinion of one persons experience.

Other than taking 4 photo's the other extra required documents will already be in your possession.

Visits are by appointment and they are not intrusive, or time consuming.

 

My reference 'That may be considered a hardship or hassle for some who struggle to get up off the barstool' was not directed at you personally. 

 

Appreciate the clarification. And apology most definitely accepted!

 

Anyway, back on topic, although the IB have presented this whole issue as relating to verification, I am seriously beginning to wonder whether the basic problem for them relates to the current constant need for their officers to tap out conversions from our home country currencies into THB on their calculators!

[stevenl]

On 11/2/2018 at 12:53 PM, dick dasterdly said:

"Phuket is on a regular basis asking for proof of money spent locally."

 

I have lived on Phuket for many years and never been asked for the above.  Quite apart from anything else, it seems unlikely - as how on earth does one prove "money spent locally"??!

 

Or do you mean that Phuket Immigration regularly ask for a copy of Thai bank book pages and ATM card? 

Seems quite obvious that is what was meant.

[stevenl]

6 hours ago, Jimi007 said:

I have most of my money in a bank account in the US, not in my Thai bank account. I transfer at least $2K USD a month, so that alone is about 800K Baht. I only live in Thailand about half the year, my US income was always accepted in the past, so why change it all after 13 years of doing it the same way? Why not accept my US bank statement? They do when I apply for an O visa in the US at the Thai Consulate.

Thai immigration rules have not changed.

[Jimi007]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

Thai immigration rules have not changed.

Very helpful comment. The US, UK and Australian Embassies will no longer issue income affidavits as they have always done, so something has changed, hasn't it? 

[Pattaya46]

14 minutes ago, Jimi007 said:

Very helpful comment. The US, UK and Australian Embassies will no longer issue income affidavits as they have always done, so something has changed, hasn't it? 

BE found that false declarations/income on a letter signed by the embassy could put the embassy in legal trouble. So they chose the easy way to stop providing this letter, rather that just modifying it to comply with the old unchanged TI requirement on letter having to show your income.

USA and AUS followed the move to not take any risk and because it's a good excuse to stop this annoying service.

 

Nota: All this, of course, is my own interpretation from the very few information we have . Nothing official but...

[Jimi007]

30 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

BE found that false declarations/income on a letter signed by the embassy could put the embassy in legal trouble. So they chose the easy way to stop providing this letter, rather that just modifying it to comply with the old unchanged TI requirement on letter having to show your income.

USA and AUS followed the move to not take any risk and because it's a good excuse to stop this annoying service.

 

Nota: All this, of course, is my own interpretation from the very few information we have . Nothing official but...

As I said the Thai Embassy and US Consulate in the US accepts my US bank statements for proof of income in the US for either an O or an O-A. although now the O-A is a pain as the Thai government wants a US Dept of Justice verification of my criminal record. That alone is over $50 USD, plus the notary fees for the bank statements and medical cert, along doctor's fee for the medical certificate which is a joke. The other thing is, I'm not supposed to have foreign bank accounts with more than $20K USD without reporting it to the US Government on my income tax return. From what I hear the US Embassy is in negotiations with the Thai Government about this whole debacle. Hopefully they figure something out that isn't as stupid as the new interpretations of the rules. But I may go back to doing an O-A. At left I could get two years out of a multi-entry that way! I would get one year from my last entry date and wouldn't have to go to Phuket Immigration ever again. No need for a re-entry, I can report my residence online as well as my 90 day reports.

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Jimi007

[metisdead]

A post in which a post was misquoted has been removed. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, Jimi007 said:

As I said the Thai Embassy and US Consulate in the US accepts my US bank statements for proof of income in the US for either an O or an O-A. although now the O-A is a pain as the Thai government wants a US Dept of Justice verification of my criminal record. That alone is over $50 USD, plus the notary fees for the bank statements and medical cert, along doctor's fee for the medical certificate which is a joke.

 

Perhaps there is some difference between the Thai Embassy and the three other Thai consulates in the U.S.

 

But at least the Los Angeles Consulate, I know, also accepts state-level criminal background checks, not only the ones from the FBI.

 

The advantages of the O-A, of course, are that each one can be good for up to 2 years of stay in Thailand, and, all one's bank funds can remain in the U.S., with absolutely no requirement of showing monthly income to Thai Immigration or holding deposits in a Thai bank.

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Jimi007]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Perhaps there is some difference between the Thai Embassy and the three other Thai consulates in the U.S.

 

But at least the Los Angeles Consulate, I know, also accepts state-level criminal background checks, not only the ones from the FBI.

 

The advantages of the O-A, of course, are that each one can be good for up to 2 years of stay in Thailand, and, all one's bank funds can remain in the U.S., with absolutely no requirement of showing monthly income or holding deposits in a Thai bank.

 

Yes that's what I said. When I looked last about getting an O-A, I had to go to the local Sheriff's office and get finger printed to get a DOJ issued criminal record here in California. I used to be able to get a free print out at my County courthouse, no more! It's getting really stupid at this point! <deleted>, I have lived in the same house in Thailand for going on 13 years! Never any issues, why are they dreaming up new issues. I really don't need to live there, my Thai wife and dog are happy here in Santa Cruz California. But I like my house there too. But totally not a necessity! And it would save me money. Meanwhile the Thai Government is trying to attract Chinese and Indian tourists with free visas. Brilliant! 

[moontang]

There are travel medical clinics that will do that form for 50-60 USD..otherwise it can be kind of daunting.

[Jimi007]

13 minutes ago, moontang said:

There are travel medical clinics that will do that form for 50-60 USD..otherwise it can be kind of daunting.

What are you talking about? The medical certificate is really stupid. Do you have TB

, elephantiasis, 3rd stage syphilis, alcohol or drug addiction? I have medical insurance in the US, no charge for an office visit. In Thailand I think my doctor charged me about 100 Baht. It's the notary and criminal report that jack up the price along with the fee from the consulate or embassy that keeps going up in price. So now the Foreign Ministry and Embassy gets the money instead of the local Immigration Office. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Jimi007
Typo

[moontang]

2 minutes ago, Jimi007 said:

What are you talking about? The medical certificate is really stupid. Do you have TD, elephantiasis, 3rd stage syphilis, alcohol or drug addiction? I have medical insurance in the US, no charge for an office visit. In Thailand I think my doctor charged me about 100 Baht. It's the notary and criminal report that jack up the price along with the fee from the consulate or embassy that keeps going up in price. So now the Foreign Ministry and Embassy gets the money instead of the local Immigration Office. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

 

i am speaking on behalf of the people with 3500 Dollar deductibles....who don't get free stuff..My local Occupational Health Clinic told me they would only sign it after a complete physical..450 USD..CVS Caremark told me they do not sign any forms but their own.  My local county clinic said the same thing.  I got out google, and found a guy near Kalorama...one visit, and a few laughs about the stupid form...55 USD...my local police report was free, but rules in DC may have changed...and they were smart enough to know the notary thing is a damn joke, and makes no sense.  Notarizations are free if you have some $$$ in the bank.

[moontang]

and I heard they do the stupid notary thing in LA, but overall, LA is the smoothest sailing....mainly consistency...DC being more political can have quicker shake-ups at the Embassy, even though they seperated consular services to Kalorama from Wisconsin Ave..heard there was a Croatian lady in there, who is a first class koont.

[Jimi007]

21 minutes ago, moontang said:

i am speaking on behalf of the people with 3500 Dollar deductibles....who don't get free stuff..My local Occupational Health Clinic told me they would only sign it after a complete physical..450 USD..CVS Caremark told me they do not sign any forms but their own.  My local county clinic said the same thing.  I got out google, and found a guy near Kalorama...one visit, and a few laughs about the stupid form...55 USD...my local police report was free, but rules in DC may have changed...and they were smart enough to know the notary thing is a damn joke, and makes no sense.  Notarizations are free if you have some $$$ in the bank.

Now that I was automatically signed up for Medicare as I am on disability, I get to pay for Medicare part B and D if I use them or not! I chose to sign up for part F as I had a hip replacement and skin cancer thought I better get coverage before I was denied coverage. I see I will pay double until I turn 65 in a year and a half. I haven't done the O-A in about 10 years here in the US as I had extensions from my old O-As. I got married 5 years ago and when I had to stay in the US more than a year to get my wife's Green Card sorted, I got an O marriage visa then extended it on a retirement basis for a year with an income affidavit from the US Embassy outreach program. It was always pretty easy to do. Now I feel like selling everything in Thailand and just staying here in Santa Cruz, CA. Life's a beach and I've jumped through enough hoops to get my wife a Green Card, my dog's export and import permits every year along with my visas every year. I guess they don't need my money. Good luck with the Indians, Russians and Chinese!

Edited November 7, 2018 by Jimi007

[ElephantEgo]

@Jimi007 Good point, recent changes indicate they are making it more difficult for Americans, Aussies and UK people to spend Dollars and Pounds in Thailand. Instead Immigration and Tourism seems to be  trying to draw in the Chinese Yuan, Indian Rupee and Russian Ruble markets.... busloads of them.... With all those hoops to jump through and paperwork, I can't blame you for staying in California man!

[Jimi007]

This is the latest from the Los Angeles Consulate: http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/service_visa_detail.aspx?link_id=48

 

	Non-Immigrant O-A Retirement/Long-Stay Visa
	• For the purpose of retirement (Type “O-A”) Qualifications of an applicant       1. A foreign national whose age is 50 years or above. (on the date of submitting the application)       2. Not being prohibited from entering the Kingdom under the Immigration Act. B.E. 2522 .       3. Having the nationality of or the residence in the country where his/ her application is submitted.       4. Having no criminal record against the security of Thailand and the country of his/her nationality, or the country of his/her residence.       5. Not having prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535) (Leprosy, Tuberculosis [T.B], Elephantiasis, Drug addiction, Alcoholism, 3nd step of syphilis) Required documents (*** One original set and 3 sets of copies. Requested documentation 5–7 must be notarized.***)       1. Four visa application forms |Download|       2. Four passport-type photos (Passport-type photo, 2” x 2”, color, front-view, taken within 6 months, and write your name and last name on the back of each photo).       3. Four copies of the applicant's passport (the picture page) - include the actual passport when submitting the application.  Passport must be valid for at least 18 more months.       4. Four copies of Personal Data Form. |Download|        *5. Four copies of:                 - applicant's bank statement (U.S.) showing a balance in the amount of not less than 800,000 Baht (current Thai exchange rate is available from the Bank of Thailand web site)                - or an income certificate with a monthly salary of not less than 65,000 Baht                - or a combination of a deposit account plus a monthly income totaling not less than 800,000 Baht a year.       (When submitting the bank statement, a letter from the bank verifying the account and balance is to be presented)       *6. Four copies of police verification stating the applicant has no criminal record issued by the authority concerned of his/her nationality or residence.  The verification must not be more than three months old. Please note we will not accept the receipt for Request for Live Scan Service unless it includes the actual report/results.       *7. Four copies of the completed medical certificate form |Download| issued from the country where the application is submitted, showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 (B.E. 2535) with the name and address of the doctor.  The certificate must be not be older than 3 months.        8. Copy of applicant's airline tickets showing flight to Thailand.        9.  The visa fee for Non-Immigrant O-A Long-Stay (Retirement) visa is $200 - payable by cashiers check or money order only made payable to "Royal Thai Consulate General - Los Angeles" If the applicant's spouse will be accompanying him or her, a copy of the applicant's valid marriage certificate must be presented as supporting documentation.  If the applicant's spouse is not qualified for the retirement visa (e.g. not age 50+), the spouse will be considered for the Non-Immigrant Visa Type “O” or Temporary Residents.   Extending the Non-Immigrant O-A (Retirement/Long-Stay) Visa The consulate cannot extend/renew the Non-Immigrant O-A (Retirement/Long-Stay Visa) - you will have to re-apply for this type of visa (resubmit all of the required documentation) or you can apply for the extension through Thai Immigration in Thailand.  From: “Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters, No. 606/2549, Re: Rules and Conditions in the Consideration of Alien Applications for Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand” Consideration for Extending Non-Immigrant O-A (Retirement/Long-Stay) Visa 7.21 In the case of a retiree: Permission will be granted for a period of not more than one year at a time.  Qualifications for consideration of extending a Non-Immigrant O-A (Retirement/Long-Stay) Visa include: (1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM); and (2) The applicant is 50 years of age or over; and (3) Proof of income of not less than Baht 65,000 per month; or (4) Account deposit with a bank in Thailand of not less than Baht 800,000 as shown in bank account transactions for the past 3 months; or (5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application (6) For an alien who entered Thailand before October 21, 1998, and continuously allowed to stay in the Kingdom as a retiree, the following shall apply: (a) He/she must be 60 years of age or over and has regular income. His/her bank account deposit shall not be less than Baht 200,000 a year and evidence of the account deposit for the previous 3 months must be shown; or he/she has a monthly income of not less than Baht 20,000. (b) If he/she is under 60 years of age but not less than 55, the alien shall have regular income with a bank account deposit of not less than Baht 500,000 a year and evidence of the account deposit for the previous 3 months must be shown, or he/she has a monthly income of not less than Baht 50,000. Documentation to be submitted includes: 1. Application form 2. Copy of the applicant's passport 3. Proof of income, e.g., retirement pension, interest earnings or dividends, etc.; and/or 4. Certificate of local bank account deposit together with copies of bank account records 5. Only in the case set out in clause (6), the same documentation as stated in clauses 1-4 above shall be required.