Pekin Meat Ducks

[one baht]

Would anyone know where we can sell our Pekin ducks ,they are 10 weeks old

and we have 300 with an average weight of around 

3 to 4 kgs 

Thank you for any advice'

[Toknarok]

       You don't say where you live, but wherever 300 birds is a lot to get rid of. 

       I suggest you go round to all the farang type bars in your area, I dare say most of them will be putting on a Xmas lunch/dinner. Due to the difficulty of obtaining turkeys in Thailand many restaurants will substitute duck. Take Xmas orders now.

       Likewise in January visit Thai bars and restaurants that will be catering for the Chinese New Year in February. The Chinese love duck, you should be able to shift a few then.  

      

[one baht]

On 11/2/2018 at 2:27 PM, Toknarok said:

       You don't say where you live, but wherever 300 birds is a lot to get rid of. 

       I suggest you go round to all the farang type bars in your area, I dare say most of them will be putting on a Xmas lunch/dinner. Due to the difficulty of obtaining turkeys in Thailand many restaurants will substitute duck. Take Xmas orders now.

       Likewise in January visit Thai bars and restaurants that will be catering for the Chinese New Year in February. The Chinese love duck, you should be able to shift a few then.  

      

Thank you for your reply Toknarok ,

We are situated in Chaiyaphum , Thanks for bringing location to our attention .

We appreciate the suggestions you have put forward and will definitely look into 

those possibilities in the future,  We have in the last 2 days been able sell all the ducks,

Although we lost a small amount of money in the deal, I

t was our first attempt at duck farming

but we have learned , And Duang is sure we can make a profit next time ! ?

Thanks again for taking the time to reply .

 

 

 

 

[Speedo1968]

17 hours ago, one baht said:

Thank you for your reply Toknarok ,

We are situated in Chaiyaphum , Thanks for bringing location to our attention .

We appreciate the suggestions you have put forward and will definitely look into 

those possibilities in the future,  We have in the last 2 days been able sell all the ducks,

Although we lost a small amount of money in the deal, I

t was our first attempt at duck farming

but we have learned , And Duang is sure we can make a profit next time ! ?

Thanks again for taking the time to reply .

 

 

 

 

Yes, some good advice from Toknarok.

As you will have probably learnt ducks are not chickens.

My work has been in farming since the 1960's in many countries, specialising with ducks and chickens since the 1980's; in Asia / Pacific and Thailand from 1990's.

 

Be careful during the Winter, it's vital for ducks to maintain good feather condition to keep warm as well as maintain good general health.    The water needs to be deep enough so that they can bathe easily and to allow for them to dip their heads under the water.   The eyes of ducks are the key area for their immune system.     Likewise ducks need to keep their nostrils clean so ensure feed quality is good ( beware of toxins and antibiotic residues which can be lethal .   If in a purpose built house ( with 300 I assume they are ) trough drinkers are best.  You will find that the area around drinkers is part of their communal activity.  Without saying the water needs to be CLEAN.   Maintain a good vaccination program.

 

Good luck with your next flock.

[one baht]

1 hour ago, Speedo1968 said:

Yes, some good advice from Toknarok.

As you will have probably learnt ducks are not chickens.

My work has been in farming since the 1960's in many countries, specialising with ducks and chickens since the 1980's; in Asia / Pacific and Thailand from 1990's.

 

Be careful during the Winter, it's vital for ducks to maintain good feather condition to keep warm as well as maintain good general health.    The water needs to be deep enough so that they can bathe easily and to allow for them to dip their heads under the water.   The eyes of ducks are the key area for their immune system.     Likewise ducks need to keep their nostrils clean so ensure feed quality is good ( beware of toxins and antibiotic residues which can be lethal .   If in a purpose built house ( with 300 I assume they are ) trough drinkers are best.  You will find that the area around drinkers is part of their communal activity.  Without saying the water needs to be CLEAN.   Maintain a good vaccination program.

 

Good luck with your next flock.

Thanks for the advice  Speedo 1968.

We appreciate your experienced input , we  have used  4 metre  , 150mm pvc pipes

with about a 70mm strip cut out to form the water troughs , they are very easy to keep clean,with one end cap glued and the other end just pushed on  and easily removed to drain and clean,  an artificial pond we made by placing a 4metre square canvas over some concrete posts that we had lying around to form the wall of the pond , the depth is about 250mm  during the day we leave the gates open to the grassed areas ,so they are free to come and go from their compound , we use rice hulls on the floor of the shed to keep it clean , and we change the pond water every 3 to 4 days . hopefully we are doing things satisfactorily . They keep us busy. l told Duang l need a break before the next lot, !

 

[Speedo1968]

On 11/5/2018 at 11:25 AM, one baht said:

Thanks for the advice  Speedo 1968.

We appreciate your experienced input , we  have used  4 metre  , 150mm pvc pipes

with about a 70mm strip cut out to form the water troughs , they are very easy to keep clean,with one end cap glued and the other end just pushed on  and easily removed to drain and clean,  an artificial pond we made by placing a 4metre square canvas over some concrete posts that we had lying around to form the wall of the pond , the depth is about 250mm  during the day we leave the gates open to the grassed areas ,so they are free to come and go from their compound , we use rice hulls on the floor of the shed to keep it clean , and we change the pond water every 3 to 4 days . hopefully we are doing things satisfactorily . They keep us busy. l told Duang l need a break before the next lot, !

 

Intended to follow up on your reply, time flies !

 

On the point about drinkers.   If I am reading correct you are using a 115cm pipe with a 7cm cutout, is this correct ?    Excuse my maths if this is not correct.

The drinkers are inside the house, possibly on some form of 'drinker island' ( generally slightly below the main floor area for commercial birds ).   If the space to access the water is only 7cm wide how do you clean under the lip of the drinker ?     Also, for the older bird they would have to turn their heads sideways to reach the water.   It would be difficult for them to clear their beaks of feed, clear their nostrils and wash their eyes during their time inside the house.    For the younger bird, once off the mini-drinkers ( founts ) this is not a problem and, they are unlikely to drown however, if the smaller bird gets in to the drinker it may be difficult for them to get out.    Normally the pvc pipe is cut lengthwise and at cleaning time the pipe cleaned then simply tipped to get rid of the dirty water, twice a day.  It's good that you have a bathing area outside.

 

Rice shells are the best but can be an ammonia problem in the wet season.    There have been times when rice shells were not available or unable to dispose of.     Ensure they are kept dry and clean when in storage,    Ducks eat a lot and poo a lot too, very different to chicken.

 

Could I ask what kind of feeders you are using once the birds are off feed trays ?

Could I ask if you had any specific problems during brooding, can be a major problem time, more so than with chickens ?

 

If you have any questions you would like to ask please do not hesitate, it's good for my brain now that I have retired.

[one baht]

On 11/19/2018 at 3:41 PM, Speedo1968 said:

Intended to follow up on your reply, time flies !

 

On the point about drinkers.   If I am reading correct you are using a 115cm pipe with a 7cm cutout, is this correct ?    Excuse my maths if this is not correct.

The drinkers are inside the house, possibly on some form of 'drinker island' ( generally slightly below the main floor area for commercial birds ).   If the space to access the water is only 7cm wide how do you clean under the lip of the drinker ?     Also, for the older bird they would have to turn their heads sideways to reach the water.   It would be difficult for them to clear their beaks of feed, clear their nostrils and wash their eyes during their time inside the house.    For the younger bird, once off the mini-drinkers ( founts ) this is not a problem and, they are unlikely to drown however, if the smaller bird gets in to the drinker it may be difficult for them to get out.    Normally the pvc pipe is cut lengthwise and at cleaning time the pipe cleaned then simply tipped to get rid of the dirty water, twice a day.  It's good that you have a bathing area outside.

 

Rice shells are the best but can be an ammonia problem in the wet season.    There have been times when rice shells were not available or unable to dispose of.     Ensure they are kept dry and clean when in storage,    Ducks eat a lot and poo a lot too, very different to chicken.

 

Could I ask what kind of feeders you are using once the birds are off feed trays ?

Could I ask if you had any specific problems during brooding, can be a major problem time, more so than with chickens ?

 

If you have any questions you would like to ask please do not hesitate, it's good for my brain now that I have retired.

Hello Speedo 1968 ,

Well you were spot on about the pvc pipes ,the approximate 70 ml cut lengthwise strips weren't adequate so we prised the pipes open to about 120 ml using wooden pegs and a couple of screws , it worked out really good,  given the flexibility of the pvc we ended up with more water depth. The pvc water troughs are placed over mesh as you suggested with drainage pipes for the runoff . We also placed 15 water trays 18inches x 1ft x 5 inches deep outside the barn for them to sluice thier heads around in . plus a few buckets and some big old steel  dishes Duang used for washing our clothes in ,( before we bought the washing machine ) keeping the water clean is probably the biggest job of all.

 

The rice husks are free around here and we have plenty stored  under cover, and always keep thier shed with a clean carpet of husks.   We lost five ducklings overall out of 315 that were delivered,  at night we kept them in those big domed bamboo cages with mosquito net wrapped around them and a heat lamp , and propped up enough for them to access the water feeders,  we also left the  shed lit up with a  couple of yellow fluorescent lights,  .                                                                                                 

 

 Once off the feeder trays we used round plastic dishes about 15 inch diameter with a dome in the middle we kept using those and added the water trays i spoke of for food as well, plus quite a few  round 15 inch "beer trays " l call them , about 25 feed stations ,we had some of those large blue  180litre ? coloured plastic barrels that were cut in half lengthwise ,l mixed the feed in those, very handy,  and used a garden rake to mix with  ,very easy , then used a couple of 10lt  garden buckets to distribute the feed .we also left some feed in the mixing tubs and stood those against the shed at a 45% angle which gave them a few more stations, had to chock those because as the ducks reduced the feed they would stand on the edge of the tub and one day, we found one trapped inside ,the tub had come right over on top of him , couldn't help laughing .

 

P.S. We have learned they were Muscovy not Pekin

 

We have a question for you regarding vaccination ,

We dont know anything about this matter ,and would like to hear what you have to say about it.

 

Thanks for your interest in our venture

one baht.

[Speedo1968]

Hello one baht

Thanks for your detailed and informative reply.

Will reply in the next couple of days.

Just to clarify my own experience within Thailand ( rest of Asia / Pacific ).   For 6 years I visited Thailand monthly or bi-monthly as a consultant / technical adviser, spent 10 years as a consultant with a major duck producer in Thailand.    Now retired it gives me pleasure in helping others in the farming industry if I can.

 

I have a number of comments regarding the information you gave and would greatly appreciate a few photos if possible to clarify some of the information you gave.    You can always message me if you do not wish to post here.

Photo of drinker being used during brooding, also if another drinker being used inside the house for older birds ( not the trough drinker ), tube feeder ( the one with a 'dome'' on top ), the brooding area ( bamboo structure in relation to rest of equipment at brooding time, is it an open shed, i.e.no side walls ( or with plastic curtain ), compound in relation to shed and grassed area ?

This information will help me be more specific in my replies.

Regards

Speedo1968

[Speedo1968]

Hello again one baht

Sorry to be a pain with questions.

You mentioned that you have been told the ducks you had were Muscovy not Pekin, could you please send a photo ?    There are a number of variations on the Muscovy including crosses with Pekin, including so called 'mule' ducks.

 

On 21 November you mentioned that you 'mixed feed', do you mean that you feed mash or pelleted feed ?

 

When you sold the birds at 9 weeks the weight ranges were 3 - 4kg ( very acceptable ), if you have different weights for the males and females ( if you were able to recognize ) that would be great ?   It would help me understand  what you bought as day olds e.g. Muscovy, Mules, Muscovy / Pekin cross, male female mix or all females etc.

 

As you did so well with having lost only 5 birds it seems that your not making a profit is down to other things such as bird type or management.     The latter takes good observation skills which you have already shown.

 

Regarding vaccination programs, will reply in a few days.   Do you have a fixed date for buying more dayolds ?

Any such information would also help in understanding why you made a loss when you sold the birds.

[one baht]

2 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

Hello again one baht

Sorry to be a pain with questions.

You mentioned that you have been told the ducks you had were Muscovy not Pekin, could you please send a photo ?    There are a number of variations on the Muscovy including crosses with Pekin, including so called 'mule' ducks.

 

On 21 November you mentioned that you 'mixed feed', do you mean that you feed mash or pelleted feed ?

 

When you sold the birds at 9 weeks the weight ranges were 3 - 4kg ( very acceptable ), if you have different weights for the males and females ( if you were able to recognize ) that would be great ?   It would help me understand  what you bought as day olds e.g. Muscovy, Mules, Muscovy / Pekin cross, male female mix or all females etc.

 

As you did so well with having lost only 5 birds it seems that your not making a profit is down to other things such as bird type or management.     The latter takes good observation skills which you have already shown.

 

Regarding vaccination programs, will reply in a few days.   Do you have a fixed date for buying more dayolds ?

Any such information would also help in understanding why you made a loss when you sold the birds.

Good morning , Speedo 1968,

We paid 36baht each for the ducklings, and after a bit of research we realise now we can do a lot better ,

 

Hidden costs and traps were exposed 

such as fuel for transport 3500 thb ,and being told sorry cant pick up today,   so we had to keep them on hold, that lasted 2 weeks ! added food cost of 3 to 4000 thb, and toilet waste while the birds were being transported to Nong Khai , 40kgs ?of waste we were told for 300 birds, and were told not to feed them from midday on the day he picked them up, which wasn't until 8.30pm ,  they only had water,  so i can safely say the birds had had no food for at least 9hrs when they left our place.

 

Now, we were blind to the re-weighing of the birds in Nong Khai, and l have explained to Duang next time l must be told everything  as i have to understand what we are getting into ,  The fuel cost was also deducted at 3 thb per kilo of duck ,thb 2700 on top of the transport 3500thb so total fuel cost us

thb 6,200, our birds averaged appr 3kgs  ,( he was also taking 150 birds from another small farm near us)   I was under the impression the fellow transporting the birds was buying them, because he had negotiated the price with Duang , but that wasn't to be the case , and we didn't want to risk having to wait another 2 weeks , never mind  my own fault for going ahead with something i didn't fully understand .

 

 We didn't feed them pellets Duang bought 25kg bags of, what i call pollard , and and bags of a medium bran mixture , and bags of a courser bran that looked to me like it contained a lot of rice husk ,these are the 3 we mixed together along with cracked rice , we have some napier grass that they liked to attack ,and they liked banana trees that l split in half down the middle,

 

lt's was a good game , we will win the next one !

[Speedo1968]

On 11/23/2018 at 11:00 AM, one baht said:

Good morning , Speedo 1968,

We paid 36baht each for the ducklings, and after a bit of research we realise now we can do a lot better ,

 

Hidden costs and traps were exposed 

such as fuel for transport 3500 thb ,and being told sorry cant pick up today,   so we had to keep them on hold, that lasted 2 weeks ! added food cost of 3 to 4000 thb, and toilet waste while the birds were being transported to Nong Khai , 40kgs ?of waste we were told for 300 birds, and were told not to feed them from midday on the day he picked them up, which wasn't until 8.30pm ,  they only had water,  so i can safely say the birds had had no food for at least 9hrs when they left our place.

 

Now, we were blind to the re-weighing of the birds in Nong Khai, and l have explained to Duang next time l must be told everything  as i have to understand what we are getting into ,  The fuel cost was also deducted at 3 thb per kilo of duck ,thb 2700 on top of the transport 3500thb so total fuel cost us

thb 6,200, our birds averaged appr 3kgs  ,( he was also taking 150 birds from another small farm near us)   I was under the impression the fellow transporting the birds was buying them, because he had negotiated the price with Duang , but that wasn't to be the case , and we didn't want to risk having to wait another 2 weeks , never mind  my own fault for going ahead with something i didn't fully understand .

 

 We didn't feed them pellets Duang bought 25kg bags of, what i call pollard , and and bags of a medium bran mixture , and bags of a courser bran that looked to me like it contained a lot of rice husk ,these are the 3 we mixed together along with cracked rice , we have some napier grass that they liked to attack ,and they liked banana trees that l split in half down the middle,

 

lt's was a good game , we will win the next one !

Hi one baht, many thanks for the info.

If I understand you were 'contract' growing, or was it that you had bought day olds elsewhere but could not find a market for them ?

Contract farming can often be a main contractor who then sub contracts to as many farms as they can irrespective of the size.    Even sub sub contracting etc. is common.

 

Don't really understand what 'toilet waste' is, I guess you mean weight loss of total birds between farm and factory, on the figures you gave its 133gms per duck.    Weight loss can be high in the dry season such as we are in now.    Some factories have a water spray system whilst ducks are awaiting slaughter.

 

Previously you gave an average weight of 3 - 4kg ( farm weight ) but now say average weight was 3kg, it is unlikely that you would have lost another 300gms on top of the 'toilet waste' during transport.

 

For feeding you must really look closely at the costs.    Pollard feed is only meant as a supplement and should not make up more than 10% of total feed, the balance should be high grade pelleted feed.   It is often used in backyard farming but not on a commercial basis.     I have not heard or seen it being used as any part of a commercial flocks diet.    Ducks shovel feed, not very well, other than in water.    The shape of the beak allows a lot of spillage and therefore wastage.   They do not like wet feed / mash as it sticks in the beak, to clean this they must visit the watering points more often and again there is high feed wastage as well as energy costs in its ( the ducks ) extra movement.   Both wet and dry mash can block the nostrils and affect the eyes.     Ducks do do well or crumbles when young and pellets as they grow, the size of which is normally larger than that for chicken.    In Australia there is at least one feed company that sells a 'complete' growers mash for ducks made specifically for commercial ducks.

I would strongly suggest that you move over to a commercially produced feed and look at the whole feed issue ( types of feed, feed systems, drinking systems, feeding times etc. ) to both improve grow out and considerably reduce labour requirements: and "No" I am not talking about high tech systems.

 

Yes, the duckling price seems rather high, it would certainly pay to shop around.

In general profit margins for the grower are not high, the advantage is that it can sometimes offer a regular income.    That said, contractors and the end user can be very fickle, they can suddenly say that they will not provide dayolds or buy from you.    One company here had over 3,500 contract growers, they suddenly decided to stop dealing with most of them.   This is often the fault of the contractor being greedy rather than the grower not producing a good bird.

 

You may find more helpful and relevant information from other growers if you posted in the Farming Forum.  People there should be able to give you the lowdown on the disease situation / vaccinations.  On this point I would mention that govt. vets seldom if ever like to acknowledge the incidence of certain duck / poultry diseases. 

 

I did make a post to send to you giving more general advice on one of your previous posts but perhaps you would prefer me to try and answer / advise on more specific things ?

 

Would appreciate it if you have time to answer some of my earlier questions regarding feeding equipment, farm layout, housing so that I can home in on areas where you should be able to make savings.   

[one baht]

3 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

Hi one baht, many thanks for the info.

If I understand you were 'contract' growing, or was it that you had bought day olds elsewhere but could not find a market for them ?

Contract farming can often be a main contractor who then sub contracts to as many farms as they can irrespective of the size.    Even sub sub contracting etc. is common.

 

Don't really understand what 'toilet waste' is, I guess you mean weight loss of total birds between farm and factory, on the figures you gave its 133gms per duck.    Weight loss can be high in the dry season such as we are in now.    Some factories have a water spray system whilst ducks are awaiting slaughter.

 

Previously you gave an average weight of 3 - 4kg ( farm weight ) but now say average weight was 3kg, it is unlikely that you would have lost another 300gms on top of the 'toilet waste' during transport.

 

For feeding you must really look closely at the costs.    Pollard feed is only meant as a supplement and should not make up more than 10% of total feed, the balance should be high grade pelleted feed.   It is often used in backyard farming but not on a commercial basis.     I have not heard or seen it being used as any part of a commercial flocks diet.    Ducks shovel feed, not very well, other than in water.    The shape of the beak allows a lot of spillage and therefore wastage.   They do not like wet feed / mash as it sticks in the beak, to clean this they must visit the watering points more often and again there is high feed wastage as well as energy costs in its ( the ducks ) extra movement.   Both wet and dry mash can block the nostrils and affect the eyes.     Ducks do do well or crumbles when young and pellets as they grow, the size of which is normally larger than that for chicken.    In Australia there is at least one feed company that sells a 'complete' growers mash for ducks made specifically for commercial ducks.

I would strongly suggest that you move over to a commercially produced feed and look at the whole feed issue ( types of feed, feed systems, drinking systems, feeding times etc. ) to both improve grow out and considerably reduce labour requirements: and "No" I am not talking about high tech systems.

 

Yes, the duckling price seems rather high, it would certainly pay to shop around.

In general profit margins for the grower are not high, the advantage is that it can sometimes offer a regular income.    That said, contractors and the end user can be very fickle, they can suddenly say that they will not provide dayolds or buy from you.    One company here had over 3,500 contract growers, they suddenly decided to stop dealing with most of them.   This is often the fault of the contractor being greedy rather than the grower not producing a good bird.

 

You may find more helpful and relevant information from other growers if you posted in the Farming Forum.  People there should be able to give you the lowdown on the disease situation / vaccinations.  On this point I would mention that govt. vets seldom if ever like to acknowledge the incidence of certain duck / poultry diseases. 

 

I did make a post to send to you giving more general advice on one of your previous posts but perhaps you would prefer me to try and answer / advise on more specific things ?

 

Would appreciate it if you have time to answer some of my earlier questions regarding feeding equipment, farm layout, housing so that I can home in on areas where you should be able to make savings.   

 Hello Speedo 1968

Duang has decided to put the next duck venture on hold for the time being due to the hassles we had ,   thanks again for your input and interest Speedo 1968 we will have to wait and see what happens down the line. 

one baht .

[Speedo1968]

19 hours ago, one baht said:

 Hello Speedo 1968

Duang has decided to put the next duck venture on hold for the time being due to the hassles we had ,   thanks again for your input and interest Speedo 1968 we will have to wait and see what happens down the line. 

one baht .

it's a shame but probably the wisest thing to do.

Perhaps there are alternative things you can do with the land that require less financial input / risk; for example grow some of your own food, can include meat items ( even though I have always been in farming I have been a vegan for many years ).   It's a good time of year to consider what to do as the weather is kinder.

Good luck.

Speedo 1968

[one baht]

On 11/4/2018 at 3:45 PM, one baht said:

Thank you for your reply Toknarok ,

We are situated in Chaiyaphum , Thanks for bringing location to our attention .

We appreciate the suggestions you have put forward and will definitely look into 

those possibilities in the future,  We have in the last 2 days been able sell all the ducks,

Although we lost a small amount of money in the deal, I

t was our first attempt at duck farming

but we have learned , And Duang is sure we can make a profit next time ! ?

Thanks again for taking the time to reply .

 

 

 

 

Hi Toknarok 

Thought you might be interested to know ,we bought 70 more ducks from a friend of Duangs and putting your suggestions to work and coaxing Duang not to be shy she has sold 52 ducks ,she dressed 42 for an extra charge which bought her in some good money, a chinese restaurant bought 5 first up and the rest was by word of mouth around the neighbourhood ,we wont have enough for Xmas the way things are going. Thanks to your suggestions , everything is working out really well.

 

one baht.