One or two aircons?

[ArickChaiyaphum]

On 11/3/2018 at 2:01 PM, scorecard said:

Maybe you could tell her that it will be / could be a step by step arrangement:

 

- You buy, your name only on the chanut.

- Tell her that you respect your family at home and if you die they must receive some benefit.

- Tell her that at a later time you will decide what % of ownership goes to your family at home

   and what % might go to her.

- Tell her the above is not negotiable and refuse to discuss it further. If she votes with her feet

   there's a lesson for you.

 

 

7 hours ago, stevkob said:

Generally speaking an 18k btu (5kw) inverter wall hung split system should be adequate.

I would consider the installation placement if I were you, it would be preferable to install the indoor on an exterior wall in a back to back configuration with the outdoor condensing unit.

Installation can rack up the purchase price if you have long internal and external runs, I would not recommend installing the indoor unit on an internal wall for various reasons.

 

Why? My is on an internal wall the best things. 

[sirineou]

 Following this thread with interest

Finished building a new home last year. I have being working abroad most of the time , wife is with me , so we have not spend much time there , and have not installed air conditioners yet. We plan to do so as soon as we are there in the next few months.

We also have a 4m by 11 m open plan room, at one end is the front door and living room, at the other end there is a kitchen

 pictures from when it was being build.

and have being wondering the same thing.  Would one large 24K btu unit make one end too cold and the other not cold enough  or would two 12K btu units be more balanced.

The purchasing cost should be about the same as each 12k unit is about 15k bht and one 24K is about 30k bht.

One concern is , would the two different thermostats at the two different unit be bouncing against each other.  

[ArickChaiyaphum]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

 Following this thread with interest

Finished building a new home last year. I have being working abroad most of the time , wife is with me , so we have not spend much time there , and have not installed air conditioners yet. We plan to do so as soon as we are there in the next few months.

We also have a 4m by 11 m open plan room, at one end is the front door and living room, at the other end there is a kitchen

 pictures from when it was being build.

and have being wondering the same thing.  Would one large 24K btu unit make one end too cold and the other not cold enough  or would two 12K btu units be more balanced.

The purchasing cost should be about the same as each 12k unit is about 15k bht and one 24K is about 30k bht.

One concern is , would the two different thermostats at the two different unit be bouncing against each other.  

Celinging with insulation to keep hot air from coming in to the cool space.  Marble floors make a huge differents. You place is not ground level so just get one large inverter place it in the middle on your external wall. Put the outside unit in the shade. 

[Pilotman]

4 hours ago, TheMysteriousMrTesla said:

Yeah, I think that this is going to be the operation mode, we have a large shaded outdoor area and they ought to be doing tourist stuff during the day anyway.

 

Unfortunately, once it gets dark the mozzies are out in force so the lounge needs to be closed up after being open all day so we need something to keep the temperature sensible (26-28C).

 

I'm tending towards something around 18,000 BTU possibly inverter towards the TV end. Fans can move the cold air around if needed.

 

Were are lucky in a way.  we don't seem to get mossies, but we do get squadrons of dragon flies at some times of the year.  They arrive in formation and they are huge. Sometimes, by morning the pool is littered with their dead bodies. 

[stud858]

After my experiences, I would recommend a sharp inverter type 12000 min.btu  for your purpose. Sharp have been the quietest especially  after years later. Samsungs LG. I've had too noisy after time.

If you plan not to use air often. Few hours a day inverter not so important if you get a cheaper deal on non inverter, go for it. If you use it all day. Get inverter for sure.

[bankruatsteve]

18 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Would one large 24K btu unit make one end too cold and the other not cold enough  or would two 12K btu units be more balanced.

The purchasing cost should be about the same as each 12k unit is about 15k bht and one 24K is about 30k bht.

One concern is , would the two different thermostats at the two different unit be bouncing against each other.  

That big window could be a challenge - but if you go with reflective glass and/or heavy drapes should be OK.  In that case, I would put a 12K "inverter" to the left of the big window and a ceiling fan near the kitchen should be good.  I wouldn't worry about the kitchen.  If you need 18C, then you would want a 24K BTU.

[Naam]

11 hours ago, ArickChaiyaphum said:

I have 50sqm open plan with 11,800 BTU invertor and 1 fan and that is fine. Even when it was 40c.

and the drinks in your glasses started to freeze. yawnnn...

[GTgrizzly]

Ya don't wanna make it too comfy for them, they might not wanna leave, or they keep coming back

Like most family visitors, great to see them, and great to see them go

[simoh1490]

5 minutes ago, GTgrizzly said:

Ya don't wanna make it too comfy for them, they might not wanna leave, or they keep coming back

Like most family visitors, great to see them, and great to see them go

Fish and house guests, three days, no more.

[stevkob]

14 hours ago, sirineou said:

One concern is , would the two different thermostats at the two different unit be bouncing against each other.  

 

If this were a home prebuilt by a developer you would probably find they would stick 1 wall hung split system in there and the owner would be reasonably happy with the comfort levels. But being the owner you want to ensure maximum benefit.

Having 2 units theoretically can be problematic, but looking at your pics my suggestion would be to put a larger unit toward the balcony / window area and a smaller capacity unit above the kitchen window. Taking into account most wall mounted units have a throw of about 4mt you would should not have any thermostat conflicts in your case. Use Inverter machines.

I would also hazard a guess in my suggested installation that your usage would tend toward running the balcony unit most of the time with the kitchen unit only used when ambient conditions are extreme, and or, you are cooking and entertaining etc.

 

 

[TheMysteriousMrTesla]

Great stuff chaps, given me loads to think about.

 

To assist I've done a quick-and-dirty (roughly to scale) drawing of the room in question. All walls are external and single thickness red brick. They are well shaded by a 1.5m roof overhang, and many plants and trees. All the windows and the folding door have curtains which tend to remain closed although they are not heavy weight things. There's another door at the bottom of the stairs but downstairs area is just that covered by the stairs, there's no massive room down there.

 

I'm quite happy at my desk with a stand fan along with the right hand and centre top windows open as well as the door. But I've been here a while and am reasonably well acclimatised.

 

The aircon will probably only be used in the evening when we retreat upstairs and close the windows and doors due to the arrival of Mr Mozzie.

 

 

 

I was thinking of starting off with an 18,000 BTU inverter unit over the TV (red rectangle) with possibly a second smaller unit at the yellow rectangle. The grey rectangle is the ledge intended for the outdoor unit.

 

By the way, north is to the left of the drawing.

 

Any and all input welcomed.

[Naam]

1 hour ago, TheMysteriousMrTesla said:

I was thinking of starting off with an 18,000 BTU inverter unit over the TV (red rectangle)

and let the unit blow towards the sofa where the spectators sit? unwise!

[KittenKong]

42 minutes ago, Naam said:

and let the unit blow towards the sofa where the spectators sit? unwise!

I sit directly in front of my aircon but it has little fins inside that direct the air-flow to both sides, so I dont feel a draught at all.

[Tracyb]

21 hours ago, Rawairat said:

All I can add is don't listen to the Daikin shop salesman, we put 2 x 24000 split ceiling units in our L shaped lounge, roughly 68m2 on his advice and one unit keeps the whole area cool in the hottest months. The formula he used must have been around 700BTU per m2. I guess we have a backup which we have not needed in 7 years.

I see there is supposedly a 30-40% saving when I googled Inverter airconditioners, is it worth replacing my older airconditioners? Anyone experience a worthwhile saving doing this?

I replaced two aging York ac units with two Daikin inverter units of the same btu rating as those replaced.  My electric bill went down by 25%!

[Tracyb]

2 hours ago, TheMysteriousMrTesla said:

Great stuff chaps, given me loads to think about.

 

To assist I've done a quick-and-dirty (roughly to scale) drawing of the room in question. All walls are external and single thickness red brick. They are well shaded by a 1.5m roof overhang, and many plants and trees. All the windows and the folding door have curtains which tend to remain closed although they are not heavy weight things. There's another door at the bottom of the stairs but downstairs area is just that covered by the stairs, there's no massive room down there.

 

I'm quite happy at my desk with a stand fan along with the right hand and centre top windows open as well as the door. But I've been here a while and am reasonably well acclimatised.

 

The aircon will probably only be used in the evening when we retreat upstairs and close the windows and doors due to the arrival of Mr Mozzie.

 

 

 

I was thinking of starting off with an 18,000 BTU inverter unit over the TV (red rectangle) with possibly a second smaller unit at the yellow rectangle. The grey rectangle is the ledge intended for the outdoor unit.

 

By the way, north is to the left of the drawing.

 

Any and all input welcomed.

If your stairway down is blocked by a door at the bottom that will the reduce the amount of cold air produced by the air con flowing down the staircase.  My hunch is that two units is overkill and that a single 18k btu inverter should suffice.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Tracyb

[TheMysteriousMrTesla]

5 hours ago, Naam said:

and let the unit blow towards the sofa where the spectators sit? unwise!

It could move a bit to the left which would reduce the direct airflow if you think that's a big issue. There's a column in line with the left end of the sofa, so the A/C cannot go any further left than that.

[tutsiwarrior]

my 'study' is the bottom floor of a shop house 4m x 10m with 4 equally spaced column lines, A to B next to sliding front door with exercise equipment and shelves, B to C with desk - sofa - TV and C to D with cavity for stairs and white board for advanced discussions requiring graphic illustration...

 

I bought a Mitsubishi Mr Slim 22k inverter and put the evaporator on the wall between A and B (compressor unit on upstairs outside terrace with 4m pipe run) and use a Hatari 18" floor fan by the AC air discharge to distribute the cold air with a supplementary ceiling fan between B and C...keep the AC on 28C and vary the fan speeds as required...maybe dip to 24C during March thru May...inverter AC operation about 14hrs daily mostly for humidity control purposes...

 

I find the above to be a suitable arrangement...with an upstairs bedroom 18k conventional unit (10hrs nightly @ 24C) and ceiling fan and small kitchen fridge with kitchen ceiling fan the last PEA bill was 2362 baht...

 

 

[NanLaew]

The OP's 'early next year' means it will be cool.

 

One 10-12 kbtu unit will be adequate and two units would be overkill, IMHO. Air conditioning doesn't cool by simply forcing cold air into a space, it works by drawing the heat out of the air already in that space. If the room isn't ordinarily a warm or hot room, then not a lot of cooling capacity is needed regardless of room size and shape.

 

Regarding the fairly restricted placement, as others mention, close proximity between the indoor evaporator and outdoor condenser unit to prevent long lines is preferred.

 

Analyse the room for hot spots and existing air flow. Is there a wall that's possibly exposed to sunlight that gets warm or hot? Is there a kitchen or other cooking source of heat? Airflow should be assessed to work out where any additional fans may be needed to aid circulation. Also check for the ambient temperature of that airflow, ie. coming from a door or window that naturally draws warm air (from a kitchen or outside) into the room and/or doors and windows that may draw cool air out of the room too quickly leaving a warmer, less comfortable area.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

13 hours ago, NanLaew said:

The OP's 'early next year' means it will be cool.

By the middle of January it's beginning to get quite warm.  "early next year" could easily include March which will be hot.

[TheMysteriousMrTesla]

4 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

By the middle of January it's beginning to get quite warm.  "early next year" could easily include March which will be hot.

Actually, it's going to be April 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 minute ago, TheMysteriousMrTesla said:

Actually, it's going to be April 

 

So the hottest time possible. At least they may get to experience Songkran

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, TheMysteriousMrTesla said:

Actually, it's going to be April 

 

April is Q2 and hardly early anymore but I digress.

 

It will be the hottest month so plan on the one air conditioner, a well-placed ceiling fan and a couple of pedestal ones just in case.

 

Sorted.

[steve73]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 10:01 AM, Tracyb said:

If your stairway down is blocked by a door at the bottom that will the reduce the amount of cold air produced by the air con flowing down the staircase.  My hunch is that two units is overkill and that a single 18k btu inverter should suffice.

 

 

I was going to say the same thing... Cold air falls and so all the A/C effort will simply flow down the stairs.  It would be better to close off the stairwell at the top of the stairs.  Failing that make sure the cold air flow is directed towards where you will actually be... i.e. the red location, or opposite actually above the sofa.

 

Also, if north is to the left, then west will be to the door & folding door.  These will get the hot setting sun so you'll need plenty of shade outside.  Heavy drapes/curtains inside will help a little but will simply capture the heat.   If you can't manage to get some trees to provide that shade, consider using some shade cloth or tarpaulins (i.e. roller blinds) hanging down from the overhanging roof... I know it will look scruffy, but it'll make a huge difference to keeping the room cool. 

[KittenKong]

On 11/6/2018 at 2:45 PM, TheMysteriousMrTesla said:

It could move a bit to the left which would reduce the direct airflow if you think that's a big issue. There's a column in line with the left end of the sofa, so the A/C cannot go any further left than that.

Just get a model with directional fins, like mine.

[TheMysteriousMrTesla]

SWMBO has determined that we are not having Samsung and that we are having an inverter despite my reservations (she's been talking to friends about power savings).

 

We have Hitachi (conventional) units in two bedrooms which seem to have been reliable and were not stupid money.

 

I did however make the mistake (I will never learn) of telling her the budget was no more than 40k Baht! She's provisionally selected a Hitachi RAS/RAC DX 24 CJT 23000 BTU inverter @ 39,490 THB in HomePro, I will of course be investigating for a better price ????

 

[sometimewoodworker]

53 minutes ago, TheMysteriousMrTesla said:

SWMBO has determined that we are not having Samsung and that we are having an inverter despite my reservations (she's been talking to friends about power savings).

 

We have Hitachi (conventional) units in two bedrooms which seem to have been reliable and were not stupid money.

 

I did however make the mistake (I will never learn) of telling her the budget was no more than 40k Baht! She's provisionally selected a Hitachi RAS/RAC DX 24 CJT 23000 BTU inverter @ 39,490 THB in HomePro, I will of course be investigating for a better price ????

 

It looks a little expensive unless it includes installation as it's virtually full price

 

 

[TheMysteriousMrTesla]

11 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It looks a little expensive unless it includes installation as it's virtually full price

It's not clear from the HomePro site, the other units we bought from HomePro included installation up to a certain distance between the units. Power wiring is already installed.

 

The HomePro installation chaps have always had the correct tools and done a quick and neat job leaving behind no mess (used their own dust sheets and vacuum). I am prepared to pay a premium for this type of service.

 

Going shopping on Saturday, I'm quite sure we won't come out with a Hitachi and what we get will not be cheaper ????

 

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, TheMysteriousMrTesla said:

I did however make the mistake (I will never learn) of telling her the budget was no more than 40k Baht! She's provisionally selected a Hitachi RAS/RAC DX 24 CJT 23000 BTU inverter @ 39,490 THB in HomePro, I will of course be investigating for a better price

That is the same make and size inverter that I have, though yours is a newer version. Mine has been in more or less constant use for 5+ years and has required nothing but regular cleaning in that time. I paid about that price too.

 

It has the directional fins I mentioned.

 

Installation up to around 4m of piping was included with mine from Numchai and is standard as far as I know. A new breaker was also included. They did charge a couple of hundred Baht extra for the plastic cover for the pipes.

Edited November 8, 2018 by KittenKong

[Naam]

personally i like these phantastic features

 

[KittenKong]

^^^ It was the wasabi air filter on the new model that made me jealous. My old one does not have that and the only wasabi I ever get is on my sashimi.

 

That said, my Hitachi has worked just fine for 5+ years with no servicing needed apart from regular cleaning. So I can put up with the lack of wasabi.