Register address

[eisfeld]

Badrabbit: also make sure the landlord signs with blue ink, they don't accept black even if the landlord is there in person. Been there, done that.

 

Also would be really good if you tried to talk to them about what Maestro said if you are renting a house on your name and hence are the house-master as far as the law is concerned and should be able to report yourself. Chances are they might not know about this case and maybe don't even want to know about it but it's worth a try. It would make things much easier for a lot of people if they accepted this in accordance with the law. I tried before in Phuket but didn't get far. If more people try to speak to them about it, maybe eventually they'll adjust?

[Badrabbit]

Badrabbit: also make sure the landlord signs with blue ink, they don't accept black even if the landlord is there in person. Been there, done that.
 
Also would be really good if you tried to talk to them about what Maestro said if you are renting a house on your name and hence are the house-master as far as the law is concerned and should be able to report yourself. Chances are they might not know about this case and maybe don't even want to know about it but it's worth a try. It would make things much easier for a lot of people if they accepted this in accordance with the law. I tried before in Phuket but didn't get far. If more people try to speak to them about it, maybe eventually they'll adjust?

This is getting to be a pain here, my mate has never reported his address and has never been in trouble, what colour pen do you use in forms black or blue?

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[eisfeld]

I now always use blue. For the forms themselves I am not sure if it matters, probably not. But they started to be anal about signatures being in blue last time I went there a few months ago. Your friend might get fined once he wants to do an extension or whatever else at immigration. I think it's 1600THB or some such.

 

The whole system is such a pain in the ass. BUT you (or the landlord) can also do online reporting (if you can make the website work). That's way way easier than going to immigration every time. They approve the account the first time and from then on it's quite easy. Try to sit together with your landlord and have them sign up at https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

There is no english version and it's a bit fiddly, I got it working in Chrome.

[Badrabbit]

Sorted out my address registration this morning, would appear now that the power of attorney form is needed, very easy this morning.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[nasa123]

16 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Sorted out my address registration this morning, would appear now that the power of attorney form is needed, very easy this morning.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

????????????

[MJKT2014]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:01 AM, Badrabbit said:

for gods sake what is wrong with this country

Shouldn't embassies be approaching Thai immigrations about the fining of foreigners for reasons beyond their control? Its the landlords responsibility to report the TM30 form and if it isn't foreigners get hit on their next visit to IO, often without their knowledge of having done anything wrong.

 

Why are our embassies not helping?

[jackdd]

13 minutes ago, MJKT2014 said:

Why are our embassies not helping?

Because that's not their job

[MJKT2014]

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Because that's not their job

The primary purpose of an embassy is to assist their citizens who travel to or live in the host country.
 

[jackdd]

5 minutes ago, MJKT2014 said:

The primary purpose of an embassy is to assist their citizens who travel to or live in the host country.
 

 

Maybe in theory, but practically, unless you are being tortured or going to be killed, they won't help you.

 

One embassy as example: https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/what-we-can-and-cannot-do/

What the U.S. Embassy Can’t Do:

Assist with Thai or U.S. residency or immigration issues

[MJKT2014]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

unless you are being tortured or going to be killed, they won't help you.

I was able to get some service from my embassy a few weeks ago and I wasn't being tortured or threatened with my life. I'd have thought their services would extend to helping foreigners getting hit by TM30 fines when it isn't their fault to begin with. i.e. unfair practices by Imm. Who else can foreigners complain to about having their money taken unfairly?

[jackdd]

16 minutes ago, MJKT2014 said:

I was able to get some service from my embassy a few weeks ago and I wasn't being tortured or threatened with my life. I'd have thought their services would extend to helping foreigners getting hit by TM30 fines when it isn't their fault to begin with. i.e. unfair practices by Imm. Who else can foreigners complain to about having their money taken unfairly?

There is the hotline 1111, which is said to be specifically for foreigners who have problems with government agencies. No idea if they are of any use.

Prevent having their money taken unfairly is quite easy, just refuse to pay, but if you want an extension from them that's of course problematic then.

[MJKT2014]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:13 AM, nasa123 said:

THIS IS IN PHUKET :

That Power Of Attorney Form link doesn't work for me, anyone got a working link please?

[eisfeld]

Yes it should be the landlords responsibility to report you to immigration and in theory they should fine the landlord. But there's also the law about you (the foreigner) having to report to a local police station so I guess they can always use that to fine you because who does that?

[Maestro]

6 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Yes it should be the landlords responsibility to report you to immigration and in theory they should fine the landlord. But there's also the law about you (the foreigner) having to report to a local police station so I guess they can always use that to fine you because who does that?

4

Section 38 of the Immigration Act makes it the responsibility of the house-master, the owner or the possessor, listed in that order, to notify the arrival of foreigners at the residence. This is done with the form TM.30

 

For a rented residence, section 4 defines the house-master to mean the chief possessor of the residence in his capacity of tenant.

 

The rental contract grants the tenant the exclusive use of the residence for the duration of the contract; it makes him the possessor of the residence. It is the tenant who decides what foreigners, if any, he invites to live at his residence and it is the tenant who knows when foreigners, including himself, arrive.

 

Section 38 allows immigration to accept the notification of the arrival of foreigners also from the owner, but if I were a tenant I would consider it unreasonable and impractical to ask the owner to submit the TM.30 everytime I or a foreigner I invite arrive to stay at my residence. 

[Maestro]

9 hours ago, jackdd said:

There is the hotline 1111, which is said to be specifically for foreigners who have problems with government agencies. No idea if they are of any use.

I'm not sure that the hotline 1111 is specifically for foreigners.

 

The Immigration Bureau has made available the "Public Handbook: The notification of the house-master, the owner or the possessor of the residence, or the hotel manager where an alien has stayed " and on page 2, under "Complaint Channel/Service Suggestion", the hotline 1178 is listed and a postal address is also given.

 

URLs on the immigration website change frequently and for this reason I link above to the copy of the handbook on my Google Drive. If anybody wishes to give an immigration official the direct link to it on the immigration website, this is it at the moment:

https://www.immigration.go.th/citizen_manual/guid_en13.pdf

[jackdd]

7 hours ago, Maestro said:

The Immigration Bureau has made available the "Public Handbook: The notification of the house-master, the owner or the possessor of the residence, or the hotel manager where an alien has stayed " and on page 2, under "Complaint Channel/Service Suggestion", the hotline 1178 is listed and a postal address is also given.

According to this document only the TM30 form itself is required. No copy of blue book, ID card, passport or whatsoever.

 

I also found a wrong translation

English: https://www.immigration.go.th/citizen_manual/guid_en13.pdf

Thai: https://www.immigration.go.th/citizen_manual/guid_th13.pdf

 

Section one is correct, but this is the same what it says on the TM30 form itself, so would be obvious if they would write something different in this document

But this part "Note: An alien who stays in any area must contact the Immigration Office where the alien resides." gives the impression that the alien would have to notify. But this is not what it says in the Thai version of this document.

In Thai they write "สถานประกอบการ" which would translate to "business" (probably not really business, i don't know what it means 100%, it's formal language, but something similar and for sure not "alien"). So it actually says something like "The business has to notify the immigration office in its respective area". Why did they write "The Alien has to notify" in the english version?

Edited November 8, 2018 by jackdd

[MJKT2014]

10 hours ago, Maestro said:

but if I were a tenant I would consider it unreasonable and impractical to ask the owner to submit the TM.30 everytime I or a foreigner I invite arrive to stay at my residence. 

I tend to disagree. Surely if its the law, then the landlords should follow it end of, practical or not? The landlords are making money from foreigners as tenants so they should comply the law and the IO should not penalise the foreign tenants for no wrong of their own. I have lived and worked in many countries in SE Asia and similar laws apply. My landlords have always reported my stays.

[Nobody55]

Hi Guys
Since 2011 I have been living in my partner's house (Khon Kaen province), I have the yellow book , at the immigration office 
they never asked me to fill out TM 30, I have always reported my address every 90 days on time as I have regularly renewed my annual visa (retired)

What do I have to do now?
Thanks!

[GLewis]

What if you are registered with your name transliterated into Thai on the house book itself? Both my wife's and my name are in this book. I registered this years ago at the amphur office..  What would I need to do?

 

This is in BKK.

[jackdd]

38 minutes ago, GLewis said:

What if you are registered with your name transliterated into Thai on the house book itself?

TM30 has nothing to do with the house book

 

39 minutes ago, GLewis said:

This is in BKK.

You don't have to do anything, the immigration in BKK does not want TM30 reports from private persons

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post and the replies to it.

 

The notification requirement under section 37 of the Immigration Act is an entirely different kettle of fish from the requirement under section 38 and a discussion of it has no place in this topic. Anybody desiring clarification of the requirement under section 37 should feel free to start a new topic or reply to an earlier topic on that subject.

[Maestro]

12 hours ago, GLewis said:

What if you are registered with your name transliterated into Thai on the house book itself? Both my wife's and my name are in this book. I registered this years ago at the amphur office..  What would I need to do?

 

This is in BKK.

1. Whenever a foreigner has to write his name on a paper for immigration or other official or commercial purposes in addition to his passport number, he should use the spelling shown in the first of the two machine-readable lines at the bottom of the ID page of his passport. Where a Thai transliteration of his name is additionally required, he should use the transliteration used by the district office, if there was ever a need for them to record it, otherwise any transliteration of his choice will do.
2. Currently, the Bangkok immigration office does not implement the requirement of the notification of the arrival of a foreigner at a private residence with form TM.30

[Maestro]

14 hours ago, MJKT2014 said:

Surely if its the law, then the landlords should follow it end of, practical or not?

If it WERE the law, the owners would have to follow it, but it IS NOT the law.

[Maestro]

18 hours ago, jackdd said:

But this part "Note: An alien who stays in any area must contact the Immigration Office where the alien resides." gives the impression that the alien would have to notify. But this is not what it says in the Thai version of this document.

 In Thai they write "สถานประกอบการ" which would translate to "business" (probably not really business, i don't know what it means 100%, it's formal language, but something similar and for sure not "alien"). So it actually says something like "The business has to notify the immigration office in its respective area". Why did they write "The Alien has to notify" in the english version?

When I read that note I was taken aback, too, because the way it is written it makes no sense at all in connection with the TM.30 requirement, then I figured that it might be an off-topic information for the benefit of foreigners who are the owner or tenant of the residence at which they arrive and in this capacity submit the TM.30 and may need to contact immigration later on some other business, but on second thought it also makes no sense when I looked at this way. I did not look for the original Thai text for a comparison but seeing your comment now I see that it is clearly a wrong translation and is apparently intended for the person submitting a TM.30 listing foreigners who arrive, for example, at a hotel in a case where the registered address of the juristic person owning the hotel is not in the same immigration area as the area where the hotel building at which the foreigners arrive to stay is located.

[Tanoshi]

21 hours ago, MJKT2014 said:

I tend to disagree. Surely if its the law, then the landlords should follow it end of, practical or not? The landlords are making money from foreigners as tenants so they should comply the law and the IO should not penalise the foreign tenants for no wrong of their own.

You obviously haven't read the law.

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or
hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

 

Section 4. “ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever ,

 

As the person who rents and lives at the address you are the 'possessor' and the 'tenant'.

Which of those two words don't you understand are referring to you.

 

 

 

[Tanoshi]

18 hours ago, Nobody55 said:

Since 2011 I have been living in my partner's house (Khon Kaen province), I have the yellow book , at the immigration office 

The Yellow house book was obtained from your local Amphoe office.

It has nothing to do with Immigration.

 

18 hours ago, Nobody55 said:

they never asked me to fill out TM 30, I have always reported my address every 90 days on time as I have regularly renewed my annual visa (retired) 

What do I have to do now?

They probably weren't enforcing filing a TM30 back in 2011.

You renew your annual extension to stay. It is not a Visa.

Up to you, either do nothing, or ask at your local KK office if you need to file one next time you visit.

[tgeezer]

Now for goodness sake if you do not live in the region to which this topic refers “Do Nothing”.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[cleopatra2]

5 hours ago, Maestro said:

When I read that note I was taken aback, too, because the way it is written it makes no sense at all in connection with the TM.30 requirement, then I figured that it might be an off-topic information for the benefit of foreigners who are the owner or tenant of the residence at which they arrive and in this capacity submit the TM.30 and may need to contact immigration later on some other business, but on second thought it also makes no sense when I looked at this way. I did not look for the original Thai text for a comparison but seeing your comment now I see that it is clearly a wrong translation and is apparently intended for the person submitting a TM.30 listing foreigners who arrive, for example, at a hotel in a case where the registered address of the juristic person owning the hotel is not in the same immigration area as the area where the hotel building at which the foreigners arrive to stay is located.

Did the definition of House Master change 3-4 years ago to include tenant . Thus the current law does not represent its original concept.

Edited November 9, 2018 by cleopatra2

[Nobody55]

33 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The Yellow house book was obtained from your local Amphoe office.

It has nothing to do with Immigration.

 

They probably weren't enforcing filing a TM30 back in 2011.

You renew your annual extension to stay. It is not a Visa.

Up to you, either do nothing, or ask at your local KK office if you need to file one next time you visit.

You are right ????  but last April when I made the last annual extension, they asked me for a copy of the yellow book 
so I think this document has value for them, even if in previous years they had never requested it from me.

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Did the definition of House Master change 3-4 years ago to include tenant . Thus the current law does not represent its original concept.

The only law is the immigration act of 1979 that has not been changed since it was written.

From section 4 of the immigration act.

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act."

It is just an error in the the handbook written by immigration. Most of the info on the immigration website is meant to be for businesses to do the reporting.