Thai Vs Us Citizenship

[srowndedbyh2o]

I’d like to get some opinions on Thai/US citizenship for my wife.

I am a US citizen and my wife is a Thai citizen. We have been married and living in the US for about 12 years. My wife has kept her Thai citizenship as we were hoping to someday purchase a home in Thailand, and thought that her keeping her Thai citizenship would make that easier.

When it comes time for me to retire, we have always planned on moving to Thailand. I will need to rely mostly on US Social Security for income, and figure the money will go farther living in Thailand than the US. As I am 10 years older than my wife, my main concern is income for my wife after, and assuming I die before her. Even as a Thai citizen, my wife will be able to collect my Social Security after I’m gone, however, I recently was informed that in order for my wife to continue to collect Social Security, she will need to return to the US for a period of time each year. As a non-US citizen, if she stays out of the US for more than a year she will lose the Social Security benefits. With a limited income, the cost of traveling to the US each year would be a real burden for her, plus as my wife gets older it will become increasingly difficult to make those trips (solo, as all my wifes family are in Thailand). If my wife becomes a US citizen, this will no longer be an issue, as she will be able to collect Social Security same as any US citizen. However, if she becomes a US citizen, then there is the issue of her owning property in Thailand, visa requirements for here to stay and live in Thailand, and also the cost of medical care as a non-Thai citizen.

Any thoughts, opinions or personal experience would be greatly appreciated.

[mandl]

Check out this link:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...ual+citizenship

Although there are some conflicting opinions, I think you will find the info you need.

Optionally, you can search on "dual citizenship" in ThaiVisa.

mandl

[samran]

I have dual nationality Thai and Austalian. It now perfectly legal in all cases since some revisions to the law in the early 1990's.

your wife will be able to keep her Thai nationality with all its associated rights. The only thing is if she is married to a foriegner, if she buys land she will have to ensure that it is not passed on to a non-thai national.

The main thing to remember, is that your wife should still enter and leave Thailand on her Thai passport everytime she visits, otherwise she will be subject to immigration control.

[lopburi3]

The only change your wife would have if she becomes an American Citizen is a US passport. She can hold both Thai and American citizenship and both passports.

As for Social Security believe you were misinformed. She should not be required to be in the US for SSA payments as citizens of Thailand is on the exempted list for people who have been in the system for extended time. See last part of para 3C of this link:

SSA Payments to foreign citizens

[srowndedbyh2o]

Thanks to all for the feedback. It’s been a great help.

Now, if I could just figure a way to retire early, so I don’t have to wait so long to move to Thailand!!!

[srowndedbyh2o]

Sorry to keep going on this subject, but I have a follow-up question regarding entry/exit stamps in passports and “samran”s response:

The main thing to remember, is that your wife should still enter and leave Thailand on her Thai passport everytime she visits, otherwise she will be subject to immigration control. 

Seems the same holds true for entering the US. What happens when she re-enters the USA? If she shows her Thai passport, they will ask for her “Green card”. If she shows her USA passport, it will not contain the visa stamps showing where she has been. Does she just show the US passport in place of the “green card” with all exit and entry stamps entered in her Thai passport? Doesn’t seem like the US would let her come and go from the US without entering some sort of stamp in her US passport, yet an entry stamp without a stamp showing where she has been and for how long doesn’t make sense either.

[Khun Larry]

Seems the same holds true for entering the US. What happens when she re-enters the USA? If she shows her Thai passport, they will ask for her “Green card”.  If she shows her USA passport, it will not contain the visa stamps showing where she has been.

Many places don't even stamp your passport. Surprisingly, in CDG Airport in 2003 France didn't even open my US passport, just a waive thru.

Maybe I look French??

[samran]

Sorry to keep going on this subject, but I have a follow-up question regarding entry/exit stamps in passports and “samran”s response:

The main thing to remember, is that your wife should still enter and leave Thailand on her Thai passport everytime she visits, otherwise she will be subject to immigration control.  

Seems the same holds true for entering the US. What happens when she re-enters the USA? If she shows her Thai passport, they will ask for her “Green card”. If she shows her USA passport, it will not contain the visa stamps showing where she has been. Does she just show the US passport in place of the “green card” with all exit and entry stamps entered in her Thai passport? Doesn’t seem like the US would let her come and go from the US without entering some sort of stamp in her US passport, yet an entry stamp without a stamp showing where she has been and for how long doesn’t make sense either.

When she becomes a US citizen, it will actually be illegal for her to enter the US on anything but the US passport. US embassy's actually refuse to issue visas in second passports to people who already have US citizenship.

They won't worry about the stamps, they just want to see that she has the right to enter the US. Having a US passport will see to that. Plus, too many countries these days either don't stamp at all, or only stamp on the way in, so there will always be gaps in the stamp trail. My Thai passport for instance is full of entry and exit stamps for Thailand, but hardly any from other countries, my Australian passport hardly gets stamped at all and no-one cares.

The only people you should ever show both passports to are the airline check-in people. They will need to see that the person travelling has the right to go to that destinations. Eg. Checking in at BKK showing both a Thai and US passport will show that she doesn't need a visa to go anywhere.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Sorry to keep going on this subject, but I have a follow-up question regarding entry/exit stamps in passports and “samran”s response:

The main thing to remember, is that your wife should still enter and leave Thailand on her Thai passport everytime she visits, otherwise she will be subject to immigration control.  

Seems the same holds true for entering the US. What happens when she re-enters the USA? If she shows her Thai passport, they will ask for her “Green card”. If she shows her USA passport, it will not contain the visa stamps showing where she has been. Does she just show the US passport in place of the “green card” with all exit and entry stamps entered in her Thai passport? Doesn’t seem like the US would let her come and go from the US without entering some sort of stamp in her US passport, yet an entry stamp without a stamp showing where she has been and for how long doesn’t make sense either.

When she becomes a US citizen, it will actually be illegal for her to enter the US on anything but the US passport. US embassy's actually refuse to issue visas in second passports to people who already have US citizenship.

They won't worry about the stamps, they just want to see that she has the right to enter the US. Having a US passport will see to that. Plus, too many countries these days either don't stamp at all, or only stamp on the way in, so there will always be gaps in the stamp trail. My Thai passport for instance is full of entry and exit stamps for Thailand, but hardly any from other countries, my Australian passport hardly gets stamped at all and no-one cares.

The only people you should ever show both passports to are the airline check-in people. They will need to see that the person travelling has the right to go to that destinations. Eg. Checking in at BKK showing both a Thai and US passport will show that she doesn't need a visa to go anywhere.

As usual Khun Samran, very correct. The lady should get a US passport as well. A woman's property rights are now unaffected by marriage with a foreigner ( other than inheritance to a non Thai as you point out )

[srowndedbyh2o]

Thanks again.

We actually started the process of US citizenship for my wife back in May of 2003. Just waiting on immigration to give her an appointment date for her final test, so we should be reaching the finish soon. Previous info I’ve gotten from other sources suggested my wife would loose her Thai passport when she became a US citizen, which neither of us were too happy about. Looks like it will all work out well, and we will be able to have that home in Thailand... someday.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Thanks again.

We actually started the process of US citizenship for my wife back in May of 2003. Just waiting on immigration to give her an appointment date for her final test, so we should be reaching the finish soon. Previous info I’ve gotten from other sources suggested my wife would loose her Thai passport when she became a US citizen, which neither of us were too happy about. Looks like it will all work out well, and we will be able to have that home in Thailand... someday.

Has she kept up her Thai ID card ?

[samran]

Previous info I’ve gotten from other sources suggested my wife would loose her Thai passport when she became a US citizen, which neither of us were too happy about.

news travels slow in some circles unfortunately, including amongst government officials. The law was actually changed in the early 90's.

My other piece of advice that I forgot to tell you is that although dual citizenship in thailand is totally legal, some government officials (eg at the local muncipality, some land border crossings) haven't wised up to the fact.

So unless your wife can rattle off the exact provisions from the Thai Nationality Act 2535, my advice is that it is better to keep quiet that your wife has dual nationaity, lest you run into an official who will tell you the opposite and try to make life difficult.

The major exception is embassy officials (the Thai embassy in DC seems to know their stuff) as well as the good immigration officers at BKK international airport, who have never questioned me once about why I never seemed to have travelled anywhere when I return to LOS!!

[srowndedbyh2o]

Has she kept up her Thai ID card ? 

Yes, she has kept all of her Thai paperwork in order and up to date.

The only reason she had never applied for US citizenship years ago was the conflicting info we had received from various sources, including the Thai Embassy and the US INS, and we never wanted my wife to loose the right to own poperty in Thailand.

[dclaryjr]

Thanks again.

Has she kept up her Thai ID card ?

My wife hasn't kept up her Thai ID and her passport is long expired. What should she do so that she'll be able to go dual?

Thanks!

[Guest]

dclaryjr -

My wife's Thai passport expired several decades ago. She applied for a new passport at the Thai Embassy this year and received it in just over 6 weeks. If you visit the Thai Embassy Washington website you will find forms for requesting a new passport. These forms can be downloaded with instructions in English as to supporting paperwork required (expired Passport, etc). You will also see a link to a form that needs to be submitted for Passports that are over a year expired. With alot of Thai nationals in the U.S. (green card and dual citizenship) it seems that the embassy is use to processing expired passports.

[Loong Dave]

Dual Citizenship is the way to go. I am not sure if the US permits it but if they do go for it. All the Thais in Canada do this. When they return to Thailand they use their Thai passport. When they go to Canada they use their Canadian Citizenship. Easy to travel and easy to enter the US. Most likely the same in the US if they get a 'Dual'. Easy to cross both borders (although since I haven't been home for awhile and with the terrorist crap I am not sure if border crossing is still easy in North America).

Also make sure she keeps her Thai ID card and house reg. updated. My wife had to come back to Thailand a couple of years ago to make sure she had the recent one.

[dclaryjr]

dclaryjr -

<snip>

  You will also see a link to a form that needs to be submitted for Passports that are over a year expired.  With alot of Thai nationals in the U.S. (green card and dual citizenship) it seems that the embassy is use to processing expired passports.

Thanks! I will definitely check that out.

Dave

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Thanks again.

Has she kept up her Thai ID card ?

My wife hasn't kept up her Thai ID and her passport is long expired. What should she do so that she'll be able to go dual?

Thanks!

The advice from Research is spot on. The Embassy needs to see evidence that she is Thai, so dig out all the old stuff. Expired ID's passports etc. Good luck.

[Guest]

dclaryjr -

As far as your wife's Thai ID being out of date Senior Admin gave me advice on this which you can find via a search of this web site. I also have this from Immigration Division 3 -

"Your wife can renew her Thai I.D. at all the offices of amphur in Thailand when ever she comes to Thailand. (Do not lose her Thai I.D. even it was expired it still useful]. Following is the information about renewal of Thai I.D.

http://www.dopa.go.th/English/servi/bp2.htm

Name Annop (210.203.189.*) [ Sunday 6 June 2004 เวลา 10:09 น ] Comment No: 1"

You may wish to take a quick look at the "dopa.go.th website."

The advice that I got years back from a Thai consulate has helped me considerably during the recent year "Keep all your wife's Thai documents safe, even if expired." When we go back to Thailand on our next visit we will go to her local Amphur and renew her Thai I.D., look for some land to start investing in and open a bank account while in-country. (If I pass before her and she wishes to return and enjoy the food, relatives and culture of her birth during her graying years she will have that option with paperwork in order.)

[kenk3z]

Yes - go dual citizenship. Maintain IDs and passports in both countries and when established, never let them expire.

When returning to the US from abroad, my experience has been that US immigration merely performs a computer entry of your passport information. In my case with new passport style, they just run the passport through a reader. They have never looked for Visa or entry/exit stamps at Immigration. I presume if you do not get flagged as a terrorist, criminal or the like in the database, you get through.

Next is customs. They always ask where you're coming from. But I have not had them look through the passport yet. I have it ready and showing (US passport in your wife's case) and the next question is always "Vacation or business?" and then "what's your occupation and where do you work?" My answers have always gotten me waved through without search. Besides, I think bags are being searched in the airport routinely anyway - out of your sight.

The strangest thing I have had happen to me was a transit through Japan, where they give you a form to fill out regarding your health. Obviously SARS and Bird Flu related. Darned if I didn't develop a sore throat the INSTANT they handed me that form! Think I checked off "sore throat" on that form? They might as well have a checkbox for "please quarantine me indefinitely with hundreds of SARS patients" on the form.

Beyond the issue of a Green Card, what's involved to obtain citizenship for your Thai wife? Is it a formality or does she have to recite the Pledge and take a test on US history in person?

kenk3z