Bad craftsmanship - what would you do?

[OneMoreFarang]

Currently the public area and reception in my condominium is under renovation.

Unfortunately some work is done unprofessionally. Here are some examples:

- A shelf with electronic equipment (I guess for the security system) is uncovered and gets dustier and dirtier every day.

- The wrong kind of paint is used on the floor (car entrance). It's very slippery.

- Today I saw electric wires are pulled over the edge of a metallic wire way. The wire is damaged (not much, but visible)

All these things and I am sure many more happen and it seems nobody cares. I don't see a supervisor from the building and if there would be one I wouldn't bet that he would have the knowledge to understand that this is not good work.

I guess when the renovation is officially finished it will look good enough. But when soon later the fans of the electronic equipment will stop working and the devices will overheat probably nobody will think "we should have covered that". And even if they think it they likely won't admit their failure. And if, maybe years later, there is a problem with the electric wiring will anybody think about the initial bad work? I don't think so.

But what can I/we do?

Should I tell the electrician how to do his job?

Should I tell the workers they should cover sensitive equipment?

I told someone from the management about the slippery paint. I got a lukewarm response like: yeah, maybe we look at it next week.

I guess if I would tell the building management all the time what is wrong they would just see me as this annoying guy and probably ignore what I say.

After all, it's not their money and they don't live in that building.

What would you do?

[smutcakes]

Report it to the Management and the Committee verbally and in writing. Its possible they are aware already and are taking action on it. 

[jvs]

I would not interfere,it is not your job to do so and in the end they will blame you.

My advice,laugh and walk away.

[KittenKong]

Sounds like you need new management and new staff, and possibly new committee members.

 

Take photos and bring it to the attention of the committee now. Then bring it to the attention of all co-owners at your next AGM. That's what committees and AGMs are for.

[Happy Grumpy]

Sell your condo. Move to the West. 

[Happy Grumpy]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Should I tell the electrician how to do his job?

Not if you don't want your door handle to be hooked up to the mains. 

[OneMoreFarang]

54 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Sounds like you need new management and new staff, and possibly new committee members.

 

Take photos and bring it to the attention of the committee now. Then bring it to the attention of all co-owners at your next AGM. That's what committees and AGMs are for.

In theory that sounds good.

But it seems the management and the committee don't care.

We have i.e. also a problem with short time rentals and at least someone created a big sign that this is not a hotel and it is illegal to rent for days or a week. And then some owners still do that and they leave the key at the reception for the visitors to pick it up. The management handles the keys to the visitors. I think they should refuse to play hotel lobby. But it seems the main committee members (one big owner and many smaller owners) don't care. And maybe someone gives extra money to the reception, I don't know.

When I speak to other people and their condominium managements, security, etc. I get the idea this is totally normal in Bangkok.

There might be a few very expensive places with good management and good security. But it seem that is very much the exception from the rule (in my limited experience).

[KittenKong]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But it seems the main committee members (one big owner and many smaller owners) don't care. And maybe someone gives extra money to the reception, I don't know.

When I speak to other people and their condominium managements, security, etc. I get the idea this is totally normal in Bangkok. 

There might be a few very expensive places with good management and good security. But it seem that is very much the exception from the rule (in my limited experience).

It's a great shame but this sort of situation is sadly quite common in Pattaya and, I imagine, in Bangkok too.

 

You need to get together with other smaller owners and put pressure on management and committee members to start doing their job properly. It wont be easy - quite the opposite - but it is the only solution that I can see. The Condo Act is, to an extent, on your side in that it does have provisions to limit the voting power of a single big owner. Sadly these provisions are badly written and quite easily bypassed, and these people know it.

 

If other co-owners dont care at all then your best bet is to sell up and leave: the place will probably just go further and further downhill until it reaches rock bottom.

 

Any building is only as good its management, and management is unlikely to be any better than the committee, and many committees here are worse than useless.

[BurgerGung]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

In theory that sounds good.

But it seems the management and the committee don't care.

We have i.e. also a problem with short time rentals and at least someone created a big sign that this is not a hotel and it is illegal to rent for days or a week. And then some owners still do that and they leave the key at the reception for the visitors to pick it up. The management handles the keys to the visitors. I think they should refuse to play hotel lobby. But it seems the main committee members (one big owner and many smaller owners) don't care. And maybe someone gives extra money to the reception, I don't know.

When I speak to other people and their condominium managements, security, etc. I get the idea this is totally normal in Bangkok.

There might be a few very expensive places with good management and good security. But it seem that is very much the exception from the rule (in my limited experience).

At my condo, management has been hapless, too: lists showing unpaid fees are topped by owners of the most expensive top floor condos. Guess they are above paying maintenance fees. 

 

Them being unwilling and or unable to collect fees, everything else makes perfect sense.

 

Slippery surfaces, bad wiring. I saw "painters" who never heard of masking surfaces. Saw wood stain dripping all over a new house and paint on the floor of a new hotel. 

[observer90210]

With absolutely no scarcasm, sell the condo and if you must purchase, go for purchasing a nice pool villa just for yourself, on leasehold ...but be sure to go through a honest and reliable developper...and that's where it get's tricky anywhere in the world and very much in Thailand.

[sfokevin]

Wear flop flops to prevent grounding yourself when walking in any of the public areas... 

Edited November 11, 2018 by sfokevin

[Juan B Tong]

[smutcakes]

14 hours ago, observer90210 said:

With absolutely no scarcasm, sell the condo and if you must purchase, go for purchasing a nice pool villa just for yourself, on leasehold ...but be sure to go through a honest and reliable developper...and that's where it get's tricky anywhere in the world and very much in Thailand.

So how does long leasing a villa get you away from poor workmanship from the developer and ineffective management and committee?

[Spidey]

14 hours ago, observer90210 said:

With absolutely no scarcasm, sell the condo and if you must purchase, go for purchasing a nice pool villa just for yourself, on leasehold ...but be sure to go through a honest and reliable developper...and that's where it get's tricky anywhere in the world and very much in Thailand.

I have a nice villa in a gated village. Often see shoddy workmanship being preformed in the communal areas. I made some discrete enquiries and discovered that some of the workers are relatives of the juristic manager and that she also takes a cut when awarding contracts to workers. TiT, absolutely nothing you can do about it. It's the norm here.

 

BTW. I've been looking for a competent electrician in Pattaya for several months now, even posted on TV. I've come to the conclusion that there just aren't any.

[KittenKong]

8 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I made some discrete enquiries and discovered that some of the workers are relatives of the juristic manager and that she also takes a cut when awarding contracts to workers. TiT, absolutely nothing you can do about it. It's the norm here. 

There is something you can do: sack the manageress, or point out to her that if she doesnt stop stealing (because it is theft) she will be fired. Then start monitoring and checking all accounts and quotes and bills.

[Spidey]

16 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

There is something you can do: sack the manageress, or point out to her that if she doesnt stop stealing (because it is theft) she will be fired. Then start monitoring and checking all accounts and quotes and bills.

Not possible. A handful of people turn up to the AGM, mostly Thais and her acolytes. Only committee members have access to the accounts, apart from a sanitised spreadsheet that's published annually. I tried to join the committee myself but was fobbed off with a variety of reasons why I wasn't eligible.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Not possible. A handful of people turn up to the AGM, mostly Thais and her acolytes. Only committee members have access to the accounts, apart from a sanitised spreadsheet that's published annually. I tried to join the committee myself but was fobbed off with a variety of reasons why I wasn't eligible.

I know a couple of farangs who were part of the committee in my building. They all started with the best intentions and they all gave up after a year.

One of them regularly checked the fire escape staircase, 45 floors. And he found regularly wooden furniture in these areas (where there shouldn't be anything and especially nothing that can burn). And he reported it regularly. And regularly just nobody cared.

 

Obviously in theory moving would be an option. But who is able to find out all these details before the move?

[Mavideol]

been there done that.... better not say anything otherwise management and other (mostly Thai) owners will look at you like the bad guy, keep in mind here they know everything and do not need westerners advise

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Not possible. A handful of people turn up to the AGM, mostly Thais and her acolytes. Only committee members have access to the accounts, apart from a sanitised spreadsheet that's published annually. I tried to join the committee myself but was fobbed off with a variety of reasons why I wasn't eligible.

know how it feels as I had (have) some problem for the past 3 years, management and Thai owners have common interests and don't care about foreigner owner's, we are like a pest to them

[manchega]

I feel for you.  There is no job pride here.

 

The number 1 rule is that if no has died yet it is not a problem.  If you get a death due to negligence then problems may get fixed.

 

After having professional electricians in my switch box started to smoke, for some reason the electricians had not felt the need to tighten the wires with screws that were in place, instead choosing to just push them in, result was a stiff wire worked itself out and started shorting

 

similarly two sockets on the wall, I had to take them and everything else these arsehats had touched and check it was actually done to any sensible standard, good thing too, earth is obviously an optional connection for Thai people

 

that is of course just the electric stuff, the electric stuff I found

the workers who do things like extensions care little for leaks, holes in general and well probably structural integrity.

wrt condo stuff, you will find commitees are all messed right up, in our village 2 commitees had found a way to supplement their incomes with our monthly payments for security etc.

turns out we don't chase them down in court because we need all commitee members to agree , and no individual can risk pursuit due to defamation charges, that is unless a commitee agrees on providing evidence in the civil case you are the ones who will be prosecuted and fined, and for some reason stealing from a whole village is not considered criminal but civil because they were voted in or some <deleted> up thai reason for stupidity.

 

I myself left the commitee after 2 years, my final action was to ask other commitee members how they get out of bed in the morning without dying

[Mavideol]

19 hours ago, jvs said:

I would not interfere,it is not your job to do so and in the end they will blame you.

My advice,laugh and walk away.

You are correct, stay away, don't get involved unless you like trouble and being finger pointed.... Thai owners have different quality/safety/work etics requirements then westerns

[manchega]

Just now, Mavideol said:

know how it feels as I had (have) some problem for the past 3 years, management and Thai owners have common interests and don't care about foreigner owner's, we are like a pest to them

while I know nothing about your case, I think Thai owners have little common interests except for the fuk in shrines and other religeous <deleted>.

they disagree with each other on principal and sense common or otherwise along with logic are not necessary.  

also know a thai who managed to underhandedly take over the sports complex of their village, the <deleted> now owns building and land including swimming pool along with the 'rights' to the gate.

turns out the company employed by the committee managing their village was running out of funds and sold it........ go figure

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

know how it feels as I had (have) some problem for the past 3 years, management and Thai owners have common interests and don't care about foreigner owner's, we are like a pest to them

They think that we are a serious pest. They know that we are much less likely to be fobbed off. If we get involved they know their game will be up.

 

Juristic managers and juristic persons are known to skim funds. It's an endemic problem. Thais just accept it as the way it is. We have only one token farang on the committee, really old guy who only spends a few months of the year here, doesn't speak Thai and has broken English. As much use as a fart in a lift.

[Mavideol]

18 hours ago, KittenKong said:

It's a great shame but this sort of situation is sadly quite common in Pattaya and, I imagine, in Bangkok too.

 

You need to get together with other smaller owners and put pressure on management and committee members to start doing their job properly. It wont be easy - quite the opposite - but it is the only solution that I can see. The Condo Act is, to an extent, on your side in that it does have provisions to limit the voting power of a single big owner. Sadly these provisions are badly written and quite easily bypassed, and these people know it.

 

If other co-owners dont care at all then your best bet is to sell up and leave: the place will probably just go further and further downhill until it reaches rock bottom.

 

Any building is only as good its management, and management is unlikely to be any better than the committee, and many committees here are worse than useless.

unfortunately this happens all over Thailand, co-owners(mostly Thais) don't want to get involved in any decisions, condominium act law is not enforced and/or enforceable, they know it, unless it's for their own convenience

 

 

[CGW]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

BTW. I've been looking for a competent electrician in Pattaya for several months now, even posted on TV. I've come to the conclusion that there just aren't any

There are some good sparkies in Thailand! But they are few are far between, trying to find one is near impossible as you have found out, they are kept more than busy just by being capable at their job, an uncommon occurrence here!

[no deal]

2 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

unfortunately this happens all over Thailand, co-owners(mostly Thais) don't want to get involved in any decisions, condominium act law is not enforced and/or enforceable, they know it, unless it's for their own convenience

 

 

move pay more for a nice residence you have a lot choice! every think is about money...

[Mavideol]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

They think that we are a serious pest. They know that we are much less likely to be fobbed off. If we get involved they know their game will be up.

 

Juristic managers and juristic persons are known to skim funds. It's an endemic problem. Thais just accept it as the way it is. We have only one token farang on the committee, really old guy who only spends a few months of the year here, doesn't speak Thai and has broken English. As much use as a fart in a lift.

same problem at my place, Thai owners get free extra service from management, like check in check out, rent their rooms, clean their rooms and so forth, owners pay management salaries but they keep working for themselves pocketing the money for their own benefit and not reporting it into management income, Thai owners don't vote and/or criticize management, if they do no more free extra services, no more rentals and so forth, juristic person has a legal duty but condominium law act but they don't follow it, why should they, nobody will ever challenge him or her, Thailand condominium property ownership, sadly enough,  is all over like that

[Mavideol]

2 minutes ago, no deal said:

move pay more for a nice residence you have a lot choice! every think is about money...

Tell me where to move, will pay more if proper and legal management, unfortunately did a lot of research in different cities and could find one worth the move

[Gandtee]

Many years ago my wife told me "Not to complain to the Thais. Very dangerous. Tell me. I will do it." Good advice.

[no deal]

2 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

Tell me where to move, will pay more if proper and legal management, unfortunately did a lot of research in different cities and could find one worth the move

proper and legal management probably hard to know before you buy,but if you are looking for a upscale building,you have better chance,my friend  buy a cando in a new building in udon thani is very happy but later i don't know,i live in a house i don't have this problem.good look!