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Israeli fire kills six during Gaza raid targeting Hamas commander - Hamas

 

FILE PHOTO: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu waves as he arrives at the Elysee Palace after the commemoration ceremony for Armistice Day, 100 years after the end of World War One, in Paris, France, November 11, 2018. REUTERS/Reinhard Krause/File Photo

 

GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli forces killed at least six Palestinians in the Gaza Strip on Sunday in an undercover raid targeting a Hamas commander and air strikes that provided cover for the troops to escape back into Israel by car, Hamas said.

 

The Israeli incursion and air attacks drew rocket fire from the Hamas-controlled enclave, with sirens sounding in Israeli communities along the border. The military said its defenses intercepted two launches. There were no immediate reports of injuries or damage on the Israeli side of the frontier.

 

The violence prompted Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to cut short a visit to Paris, where he had been gathering with world leaders for a World War One commemoration.

 

Hamas said the incident began when assailants in a passing car opened fire on a group of its armed men, killing one of its commanders. Hamas gunmen gave chase as the car sped back towards the border with Israel, Hamas said in a statement.

 

During the pursuit, Israeli aircraft fired more than 40 missiles in the area, according to witnesses.

 

Medics and Hamas officials said at least six people were killed including commander Nour Baraka and another member of the group. It was unclear if the other fatalities included gunmen.

 

The Israeli military said in a brief statement that: "During IDF (Israel Defense Forces) operational activity in the Gaza Strip, an exchange of fire evolved."

 

A return by Israel to a policy of targeting individual Hamas commanders - tactics largely abandoned in recent years - could significantly raise tensions along the border.

 

Violence has flared frequently on the frontier since Palestinians began weekly protests on March 30. Egypt, Qatar and the United Nations have been trying to broker a long-term ceasefire.

 

(Reporting by Nidal al-Mughrabi; Editing by Matthew Mpoke Bigg and Daniel Wallis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-11-12

[dexterm]

"The incident occurred at the height of efforts to achieve a long-term cease-fire in Gaza and is liable to make these efforts much harder."

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israeli-army-confirms-one-officer-killed-another-wounded-during-gaza-raid-1.6639735

 

If this escalates and hopes of a ceasefire vanish, remember who fired the first shots.

[Morch]

11 hours ago, dexterm said:

"The incident occurred at the height of efforts to achieve a long-term cease-fire in Gaza and is liable to make these efforts much harder."

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israeli-army-confirms-one-officer-killed-another-wounded-during-gaza-raid-1.6639735

 

If this escalates and hopes of a ceasefire vanish, remember who fired the first shots.

 

Well, it's "first shots" only if one subscribe to your hyper-partisan "take" of reality. But as you're unable or unwilling to even admit both sides engage in such actions, let me refresh your memory with some recent examples:

 

Hamas fires rockets, Israel bombs Gaza despite talk of truce

https://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL5N1V00I5

 

Israel Strikes Gaza After a Rocket Is Fired

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-rocket-hamas.html

 

And here's one from just three days ago...

 

Blaze Starts in Israeli Greenhouse Near Gaza After Palestinian Breaches Border Fence

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/.premium-palestinian-breaches-gaza-border-fence-and-sets-israeli-greenhouse-on-fire-1.6636867

 

[Scott]

Inflammatory post removed. 

[dexterm]

9 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Well, it's "first shots" only if one subscribe to your hyper-partisan "take" of reality. But as you're unable or unwilling to even admit both sides engage in such actions, let me refresh your memory with some recent examples:

 

Hamas fires rockets, Israel bombs Gaza despite talk of truce

https://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL5N1V00I5

 

Israel Strikes Gaza After a Rocket Is Fired

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-rocket-hamas.html

 

And here's one from just three days ago...

 

Blaze Starts in Israeli Greenhouse Near Gaza After Palestinian Breaches Border Fence

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/.premium-palestinian-breaches-gaza-border-fence-and-sets-israeli-greenhouse-on-fire-1.6636867

 

Cherry picked off topic headlines and deflection. That do not deny that fact that the OP was an Israeli initiated incursion and assassination in the middle of ceasefire negotiations.

Greenhouses can be replaced. 7 Palestinian and one Israeli soldier's life can't.

 

Can you imagine the uproar if a group of Palestinians had crossed into Israel and killed 7 Israelis. But somehow Gazans are supposed to accept this.

 

Looks like the situation is escalating just as Israel planned.

Edited November 12, 2018 by dexterm

[bendejo]

Saw a news clip about a direct-hit on a bakery.  In another incident a bus was hit.  I don't watch this situation closely, but it seems their aim is improving.  Greatly.  Up until now it's seemed "fire in that direction" was their strategy.

Could it be they now have heat-seeking missiles?  Or is it just the law of averages catching up with relatively random targeting?

 

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

Cherry picked off topic headlines and deflection. That do not deny that fact that the OP was an Israeli initiated incursion and assassination in the middle of ceasefire negotiations.

Greenhouses can be replaced. 7 Palestinian and one Israeli soldier's life can't.

 

Can you imagine the uproar if a group of Palestinians had crossed into Israel and killed 7 Israelis. But somehow Gazans are supposed to accept this.

 

Looks like the situation is escalating just as Israel planned.

 

No, cherry-picking would be what you attempted in your original post - an assertion that the conflict (or even it's current instance) starts from an arbitrary point of your choosing.

 

The point was nothing to do with denying the Israeli action (although, it is doubtful if it's goal was to assassinate anyone, seems like an intel op gone wrong). Rather, it was to highlight that such "breaches" are not limited to one side, and that the Palestinians had done so on numerous occasions as well.

 

Obviously, you'll try to deny and minimize that.

 

Nobody said anything about "Gazans are supposed to accept this", other than yourself. Try for better strawmen, please.

 

As for your last line - not expecting you to actually back your nonsense assertions, but "planned"? Do tell.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, bendejo said:

Saw a news clip about a direct-hit on a bakery.  In another incident a bus was hit.  I don't watch this situation closely, but it seems their aim is improving.  Greatly.  Up until now it's seemed "fire in that direction" was their strategy.

Could it be they now have heat-seeking missiles?  Or is it just the law of averages catching up with relatively random targeting?

 

 

 

I don't think the Palestinian rockets are much improved (as in guidance systems etc.), more a numbers game. The bus was hit by an anti-tank missile, a whole different level.

 

[bendejo]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

don't think the Palestinian rockets are much improved

Thinking bakery, heat....

And suddenly they are actually hitting things.

 

Same with the Houtis in Yemen.  They keep firing at Saudi, helter-skelter.  A few weeks ago they hit something of consequence for a change and it made the news.

Keep an eye on new armaments coming it.  Well, it's got my attention...

 

 

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, bendejo said:

Thinking bakery, heat....

And suddenly they are actually hitting things.

 

Same with the Houtis in Yemen.  They keep firing at Saudi, helter-skelter.  A few weeks ago they hit something of consequence for a change and it made the news.

Keep an eye on new armaments coming it.  Well, it's got my attention...

 

 

 

There were actually more hits, mostly in residential areas. Going by figures, it's pretty much the same as previous rounds. So far, 200-300 rockets launched which usually gets spread over a longer period of time, hence the perception maybe different.

 

Heat-seeking guided rockets? Yeah...sure. Not these, anyway. They could, conceivably, have somewhat better intel, extended range and include some modifications to approve accuracy, but not on the level suggested.

 

The Yemen situation is different - for one thing, they are shooting missiles (at least those targeting further areas), and anyway, they hit a whole lot more often than the Saudis admit. It made the headlines when they managed more obvious targets, that's all.

 

The "new armaments" in this instance would be the anti-tank missile (supposedly Russian made Kornet) fired on the Israeli bus. Not "new" as such, but more with regard to the willingness to use such means.

[dexterm]

It was not in Hamas' interest to escalate this situation, but it is in Israel's.

 

1. Netanyahu has just been pilloried by his political opponents for allowing a $15m Qatari donation into Gaza, in an attempt to prop up the economy which reinforces Hamas's ceasefire efforts. Clearly there isn't going to be allowed through any more of the $90m promised with the current hostilities.

 

2. Gazans have recently gained worldwide sympathy while Israel has been on the back foot, after killing over 200 Palestinians and injuring 18,000 protesting their right to return to their homeland. That's another headache for Netanyahu that he could make disappear under the fog of war by escalating the OP situation.. 

 

3. In response to Israel assassinating 7 Palestinians and the IAF firing over 40 missiles to cover the Israeli retreat, Hamas responded with only 17 rockets, 3 of which were shot down. So Israel upped the ante again.

Israel now has the escalation it wanted.

 

Remember who fired the first shots, but all that will be lost as Israeli apologists regurgitate the usual obfuscatory "We are defending ourselves against rocket attacks blah blah."

Edited November 13, 2018 by dexterm

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, dexterm said:

It was not in Hamas' interest to escalate this situation, but it is in Israel's.

 

1. Netanyahu has just been piloried by his political opponents for allowing a $15m Qatari donation into Gaza, in an attempt to shore up the economy which reinforces Hamas's ceasefire efforts. Clearly there isn't going to be allowed through any more of the $90m promised with the current hostilities.

 

2. Gazans have recently gained worldwide sympathy while Israel has been on the back foot, after killing over 200 Palestinians and injuring 18,000 protesting their right to return to their homeland. That's another headache for Netanyahu that he could make disappear under the fog of war by escalating the OP situation.. 

 

3. In response to Israel assassinating 7 Palestinians and the IAF firing over 40 missiles to cover the Israeli retreat, Hamas responded with only 17 rockets, 3 of which were shot down. So Israel upped the ante again.

Israel now has the escalation it wanted.

 

Remember who fired the first shots, but all that will be lost as Israeli apologists regurgitate the usual obfuscatory "We are defending ourselves against rocket attacks blah blah."

 

More of your usual contrived misleading nonsense. Let's take it from the top:

 

1. Like Netanyahu, Hamas was heavily criticized by political rivals (the PA, the Islamic Jihad, and various smaller outfits) for accepting a de-facto ceasefire, in return for economic gains (the money from Qatar, for example). Additionally, Hamas is made out of several factions, the crudest differentiation being the Political and the Military wings. Each got a different focus and somewhat different interests, and that's on top of personal rivalries involved.

 

2. Following your "logic" it seems you try to claim that Netanyahu would address supposed "worldwide sympathy" for the Palestinians, by initiating a war - which would in turn create more negative PR for Israel? And, of course, that would be the same Netanyahu who went along with attempts to calm things down (Qatari funds, more oil and gas entering the Gaza Strip).

 

3. Israel did not "assassinate" in this case. The Israeli force was on a covert mission, got discovered, and a firefight ensued. As for your understanding of Hamas reactions - let me refer you back to the first comment. The "upped the ante" nonsense relies on the bogus assertion that both sides are supposed to militarily engage on equal terms.

 

4. If Israel, as a whole, wanted an escalation, it wouldn't have gone for the ceasefire efforts to begin with. Your simplistic narrative implies that there's a unified position and a well-laid out plan, the usual ingredients of conspiracy theory.

 

5. I get it that you'll push the "first shots" canard, disregarding previous instances linked above. And to borrow from your previous post - do you somehow expect Israel to simply accept rockets launched at their towns? So far the only "apologist" going on about "only defending ourselves" is you.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, bendejo said:

Saw a news clip about a direct-hit on a bakery.  In another incident a bus was hit.  I don't watch this situation closely, but it seems their aim is improving.  Greatly.  Up until now it's seemed "fire in that direction" was their strategy.

Could it be they now have heat-seeking missiles?  Or is it just the law of averages catching up with relatively random targeting?

 

 

 

Ok, checked local news, and its not a "bakery", but more like a food factory (think Mama Noodles etc.). Rocket managed to hit industrial size gas tanks, hence the massive fire.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Morch

[bendejo]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Ok, checked local news, and its not a "bakery", but more like a food factory (think Mama Noodles etc.). Rocket managed to hit industrial size gas tanks, hence the massive fire.

Figures, the article I read was from Fox.

 

 

[dexterm]

26 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

More of your usual contrived misleading nonsense. Let's take it from the top:

 

1. Like Netanyahu, Hamas was heavily criticized by political rivals (the PA, the Islamic Jihad, and various smaller outfits) for accepting a de-facto ceasefire, in return for economic gains (the money from Qatar, for example). Additionally, Hamas is made out of several factions, the crudest differentiation being the Political and the Military wings. Each got a different focus and somewhat different interests, and that's on top of personal rivalries involved.

 

2. Following your "logic" it seems you try to claim that Netanyahu would address supposed "worldwide sympathy" for the Palestinians, by initiating a war - which would in turn create more negative PR for Israel? And, of course, that would be the same Netanyahu who went along with attempts to calm things down (Qatari funds, more oil and gas entering the Gaza Strip).

 

3. Israel did not "assassinate" in this case. The Israeli force was on a covert mission, got discovered, and a firefight ensued. As for your understanding of Hamas reactions - let me refer you back to the first comment. The "upped the ante" nonsense relies on the bogus assertion that both sides are supposed to militarily engage on equal terms.

 

4. If Israel, as a whole, wanted an escalation, it wouldn't have gone for the ceasefire efforts to begin with. Your simplistic narrative implies that there's a unified position and a well-laid out plan, the usual ingredients of conspiracy theory.

 

5. I get it that you'll push the "first shots" canard, disregarding previous instances linked above. And to borrow from your previous post - do you somehow expect Israel to simply accept rockets launched at their towns? So far the only "apologist" going on about "only defending ourselves" is you.

1. Your usual spin and deflections. Netanyahu relies on his coalition to stay in power. Hamas doesn't.
2. Netanyahu blows with the wind. He got egg on his face for allowing Qatari donations. If his Israeli colleagues want war, he will gladly make amends by bowing to their demands.
3. Says only you and the IDF. When Israel has drones and informants what intelligence could be so important as to risk a firefight ending in the OP conflagration.
4. Israel can't be seen to undermine a ceasefire that was being negotiated in earnest, but it can react to a pretext.

5. Reread the OP. It was Israeli soldiers that entered Gaza and killed 7 Palestinians undermining the current ceasefire, not the other way around.

[JimmyJ]

4 hours ago, bendejo said:

Saw a news clip about a direct-hit on a bakery.  In another incident a bus was hit.  I don't watch this situation closely, but it seems their aim is improving.  Greatly.  Up until now it's seemed "fire in that direction" was their strategy.

Could it be they now have heat-seeking missiles?  Or is it just the law of averages catching up with relatively random targeting?

 

 

 

"Could it be they now have heat-seeking missiles?"

No. They are still homemade advanced fireworks only.

 

"Or is it just the law of averages catching up with relatively random targeting?"

Yes. The targeting is "random" because they can only loosely be called "missiles".

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by JimmyJ

[JimmyJ]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

It was not in Hamas' interest to escalate this situation, but it is in Israel's.

 

 

2. Gazans have recently gained worldwide sympathy while Israel has been on the back foot, after killing over 200 Palestinians and injuring 18,000 protesting their right to return to their homeland. That's another headache for Netanyahu that he could make disappear under the fog of war by escalating the OP situation.. 

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

Israel has done everything possible to try to goad the Palestinians into fighting back.

Their non-violent protests and Israel's brutal response has indeed gained the attention of the world  and worldwide sympathy for the Palestinian cause keeps increasing.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, dexterm said:

1. Your usual spin and deflections. Netanyahu relies on his coalition to stay in power. Hamas doesn't.
2. Netanyahu blows with the wind. He got egg on his face for allowing Qatari donations. If his Israeli colleagues want war, he will gladly make amends by bowing to their demands.
3. Says only you and the IDF. When Israel has drones and informants what intelligence could be so important as to risk a firefight ending in the OP conflagration.
4. Israel can't be seen to undermine a ceasefire that was being negotiated in earnest, but it can react to a pretext.

5. Reread the OP. It was Israeli soldiers that entered Gaza and killed 7 Palestinians undermining the current ceasefire, not the other way around.

 

1. There was, at no time, a serious political threat to Netanyahu's rule and coalition relating  the situation in Gaza. The current political balance within the coalition is strongly in Netanyahu's favor anyway. As for your take on Hamas - while it refreshing that you acknowledge the utter lack of democracy there, it isn't quite as simple as you portray. On most related issues, Hamas needs to come to terms with other organizations, mainly Islamic Jihad (which follows a more extreme agenda). Further, there are political considerations both within the Hamas, and with regard to the ongoing Palestinian schism. 

 

2. With regard to the criticism Netanyahu received, you're blowing things out of proportion. While the optics might be uneasy, there wasn't quite the public outcry you imply. Considering the majority of Israelis were not into another pointless war in Gaza, blowing with the wind would have meant going along with ceasefire efforts, despite optics.

 

3. Says me, says the IDF and so do many independent commentators. The Hamas, by the way, says the same - but don't let this disturb your nonsense. As for your grasp on intel matters, suffice to say you've just demonstrated lack of.

 

4. Your claim this being a contrived pretext by Israel, and that the Hamas negotiated "in earnest" - that doesn't account for the previously linked instances in which the Palestinian side took actions jeopardizing such efforts. Any of these could have served as passable "pretext", without the complications arising from the recent failed operation.

 

5. I read the OP. And my comments on your nonsense stand. The "first shots" bit only applies if one sets an arbitrary starting point. You didn't seem to have much complaints for the Palestinian side when they engaged in actions undermining ceasefire efforts.

[Morch]

41 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

 

"Could it be they now have heat-seeking missiles?"

No. They are still homemade advanced fireworks only.

 

"Or is it just the law of averages catching up with relatively random targeting?"

Yes. The targeting is "random" because they can only loosely be called "missiles".

 

 

I don't think you could make a "homemade advanced fireworks" which would fly that far and carry enough explosives. But do let us know if you manage it. Mind, some of them rockets support a range of dozens of miles, so better get started on that project.

 

The rockets (not missiles) used aren't guided, which is what makes their use against civilians an act of terrorism and an actual war crime. The key word here would be indiscriminate.

 

 

 

 

[Morch]

40 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

 

Exactly.

 

Israel has done everything possible to try to goad the Palestinians into fighting back.

Their non-violent protests and Israel's brutal response has indeed gained the attention of the world  and worldwide sympathy for the Palestinian cause keeps increasing.

 

You mean "goad" as in allowing Qatari funds to the Hamas, or increasing shipments of oil/gas entering the Gaza Strip? Or perhaps it was engaging in negotiations that "goaded" the Palestinians? But, of course, for some hyper-partisan nonsense merchants, the Palestinians are always "fighting back".

 

The protests being "non-violent" is rubbish. Plenty of evidence there, and even the Hamas/Islamic Jihad don't go that far in their denials.

 

 

[metisdead]

A nonsense post has been reported and removed. 

 

Another post containing links to non credible sources and not related to the current topic has been removed. 

 

An offensive troll post has now been removed. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by metisdead