The belt and suspenders plan for extension of stay

[Lacessit]

Seems awfully complicated to me. My plan is to spend down the 800,000 baht for living expenses, then transfer a lump sum to top up three-and-a-half months before my extension is due. As one can apply for the extension ahead of time, funds will only be tied up for about three months. I can live with that.

[fforest1]

15 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

In view of the aboveI I do not understand why documentary proof would not be enough to satisfy Thai Immigration because at the end the day a statement made by an individual even if stamped by a Consular Official does not amount to proof of anything.

Please tell me if I am missing something.

 

Yes what hat you are missing is the Embassy have no way of checking if your documents are genuine. They as far as I know are not linked too the Pension Centre to verify them and don’t have the manpower or want to pay for the manpower to check each individuals documents from their homeland,

Immigration have said if you cannot verify the documents 100% they are not acceptable.

if you cannot verify the documents 100% they are not acceptable.
 

So the embassy letters were just fine for the last 18 years and now they are not ok for 4 countries but they are still fine for all other countries?....?.....?

[gk10002000]

2 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

For heaven's sake just go the 400/800k route. So simple.

It is not so simple.  I think that 50% of the people are barely scraping by, and could not come up with 800k Baht or 25,000 USD.  Most people do NOT have that sort of cash laying around.  And some people would not like to, and I think properly so to tie up 25,000 USD in some Thai bank account when they could be earning 5% easily in any number of investments.  And some would prefer to not have to file the paperwork the USA requires if one has more than 10K USD in a foreign bank.  And many people would be uncomfortable having 25,000 USD in a foreign country where the courts and financial institutions are to some not very trustworthy. 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Seems awfully complicated to me. My plan is to spend down the 800,000 baht for living expenses, then transfer a lump sum to top up three-and-a-half months before my extension is due. As one can apply for the extension ahead of time, funds will only be tied up for about three months. I can live with that.

Yes, that is feasible but as I've been doing this for several years, I would suggest that people avoid cutting it as close at that. It's not uncommon for people to encounter mechanical issues in their transfer of funds to Thailand. I generally leave four months before one month before expiration of my current permission to stay for my big annual top up. Of course if you spend more than planned you can also do top ups later which is something that I've done as well as unexpected expenses are to be expected.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Jingthing

[a977]

9 hours ago, StevieAus said:

Maybe I am missing something throughout this whole debate but what I do not understand is the following.

I obtain a Retirement Extension and for the last few years have obtained a Statutory Declaration from the Australian Consulate verifying the amount of my private pension from Australia which exceeds the amount required for the Retirement Extension.

I have also produced extracts from my Thai bank account showing the amount being transferred to Thailand.

In addition I produce a statement from my Australian pension fund stating the monthly and annual amount paid.

In view of the above I do not understand why such documentary proof would not be enough to satisfy Thai Immigration because at the end the day a statement made by an individual even if stamped by a Consular Official does not amount to proof of anything.

Please tell me if I am missing something.

Have yesterday received email from Australian Embassy reconfirming their policy of not issuing SD even if you can supply all the documentation to prove what you are saying is true. I pointed out to them in my email that all they are doing is verifying my signature on all the documents including tax returns and pension statements and that I am the one who is liable should this not be true. I think too busy reading face book and twitter to be bothered standing up for their employers namely me as my tax pays their wages. Note did not see one Australian in the Embassy all Thais 

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, fforest1 said:

 

So the embassy letters were just fine for the last 18 years and now they are not ok for 4 countries but they are still fine for all other countries?....?.....?

Well actually they were not, but were being accepted by immigration, which was all that mattered. They never verified the income. Immigration have recently required the Embassies to only issue letters that truly confirm income has been verified, rather than SD, affadavit, whatever one calls it. Which simply means the retiree is confirming he is stating the truth.

Four Embassies have decided that to truly verify income is beyond their means and decided to withdraw the verification letter service. 

Other countries may yet follow suit, or perhaps their Embassies have the means to truly verify income. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by jacko45k

[superal]

9 hours ago, fforest1 said:

if you cannot verify the documents 100% they are not acceptable.
 

So the embassy letters were just fine for the last 18 years and now they are not ok for 4 countries but they are still fine for all other countries?....?.....?

Inconsistency at best . You would think that there would be a union of foreign embassies in Bangkok whereby these major visa changes , that have a serious impact on their fellow expat countrymen , could be discussed , all singing from the same hymn book and a clear picture of the future could be given . Instead we depend on this forum for information and god help any folk who living remotely and have no idea what is happening . 

The T.I. know where most of us reside and a simple statement should be posted to all concerned . Or is that too much to ask ?  I feel sympathy for the Danish folk and I am intrigued to understand the affirmation letter cancellation with immediate effect . Where does that leave them ? got to be some sad events caused by the action .

[Guest]

17 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I don't really consider that a rumor. Three embassy's will stop issuing them until January first and the letters are valid for 6 months from the date of issue according to immigrations written rule.

Is it possible to contact the Thai imm. office with email and get a reply, has anyone tried this with success and if so what is the emai address

[dick dasterdly]

19 hours ago, crazykopite said:

You could open a Foreign currency account and change monies when the rates are more favourable rather than have it all in Thai baht.

Thanks for that info., as it hadn't occurred to me that it would be possible to open a foreign currency account in Thailand.

 

This sounds sarcastic, but it's not intended that way!  I'm genuinely grateful to learn that this is possible and, as the foreign currency is in a Thailand bank, would still be accepted by IOs to support the 'money in bank' route for retirement extensions.

[ubonjoe]

55 minutes ago, jewell49 said:

Is it possible to contact the Thai imm. office with email and get a reply, has anyone tried this with success and if so what is the emai address

Chances are you would not get an answer since nothing has been stated by the Immigration Bureau so until they make formal announcement anything you get verbally or by email would be meaningless.

[Pib]

10 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

It is not so simple.  I think that 50% of the people are barely scraping by, and could not come up with 800k Baht or 25,000 USD.  Most people do NOT have that sort of cash laying around.  And some people would not like to, and I think properly so to tie up 25,000 USD in some Thai bank account when they could be earning 5% easily in any number of investments.  And some would prefer to not have to file the paperwork the USA requires if one has more than 10K USD in a foreign bank.  And many people would be uncomfortable having 25,000 USD in a foreign country where the courts and financial institutions are to some not very trustworthy. 

I liked your post and think it was on-target as to the main reasons some people do not want to go the Bt800/400K in a Thai bank method.  $25K/12.5K is not a small/insignificant amount of money.....I know I don't consider it as such.

 

However, with that being said, I have been using the Bt800K (approx $25K) in a Thai bank for my retirement extension of stay method for around 8 years now.  Fortunately I'm financially able to maintain Bt800K in a Thai bank account for retirement extension of stay and emergency money purposes.  For emergency money I mean need the money "today...right now...already in country money."  And of course it can be used for non-emergency, day-to-day living needs.

 

I've long got over and now comfortable with the safety of the money and it not earning more than around 0.5 to 2.5% depending on which type of Thai bank account it's kept in.    Would I be more comfortable with the money being in the US?  Yes.  But am I uncomfortable with the money being in Thailand?  No.  

 

If a person wants to they can possibly minimize the earnings loss by not keeping the full amount in Thailand year round....just top-up to the required amount at least 3 months before the day you apply for your extension.  Then after the extension is approved start spending down the money allowing you to leave your other money in the US.  Or maybe even send some of it back to the US for 8 to 9 months out of the year.  But of course sending it back to the US is going to incur an approx loss of around 1% in sending fees/exchange rate....and of course the fee to send it back over again. 

 

Sending it back and forth is probably not a good idea because the sending back & forth fees/losses nullify any earnings gain by keeping the money in the US.  But if a person is super uncomfortable in keeping the money in Thailand, then sending it back would give them peace of mind for around 9 months out of the year which beats feeling uncomfortable year-round.

 

As for the annual FBAR report to the US Treasury if you have over $10K in a foreign account, completion and online submission of that FBAR report is easy....it really is easy....I been doing it for 9 years.   Anyone who says it's a hard process tells me they have just never submitted an FBAR and talking crap.  Now of course if you have not been reporting/paying taxes on your US federal tax return for that money in a foreign account there is a possibly your FBAR submission might allow the IRS to spot you have not been paying all due taxes. 

 

And even if you have been reporting/paying taxes on your federal tax return for dividends/interest earning on that foreign account failure to submit the required FBAR comes with its own penalties such as possible fine or prison time....similar to federal tax evasion penalties.   

 

But if a person has nothing to hide, been paying their taxes, and since submission of a FBAR is really easy, then the FBAR reporting is really a non-issue.

 

Yeap, totally agree on the main reasons you listed....on-target.   Each person will need to decide for themselves if they are able and/or can financially use the money in Thai bank method if it comes down to being the only method available.  With embassy income letters going away for some nationalities (already gone for the Danish) and the number of nationalities affected probably increasing then it's a method many will have to come to terms with.  And like it or not they definitely need to be planning for it in case Thai Immigration does not provide an alternate monthly income method which does not require an embassy income letter.

 

 

 

 

    

[Bert Jones]

Sorry to sound so unsophisticated ... could someone please post a link to the type of foreign currency account available. If this is acceptable to TI, it may well be a better option for me. The uncertainty of the upcoming elections is putting me off depositing the 800k baht into a Thai bank account. I worry about getting it out again.

 

 

[Pib]

9 minutes ago, Bert Jones said:

Sorry to sound so unsophisticated ... could someone please post a link to the type of foreign currency account available. If this is acceptable to TI, it may well be a better option for me. The uncertainty of the upcoming elections is putting me off depositing the 800k baht into a Thai bank account. I worry about getting it out again.

 

 

All/most Thai bank offer Foreign Currency Deposit (FCD) accounts.  Just for example go to below Bangkok Bank link to review their FCD.  Other Thai bank FCD rules/fees will be very, very, very similar to what your read about a Bangkok Bank FCD.  

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Save-And-Invest/Save/FCD-Account-for-Non-residents

 

But keep in mind a FCD is "not" covered/protected under the Thailand Deposit Protection/Insurance Program.  Only account denominated in Thai baht are covered.

 

If the reason you want a FCD is for money exchange and/or repatriating the funds those are not really good reasons.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Pib

[Bert Jones]

Thank you very much Pib, that's what I'll do then...and I already have an account with BB. Thanks again....what a great source of information this site is.

[kannot]

18 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Most

Always  worrying, Id rather play safe and just deposit ( in my case) 400k in an account and forget it...............its  there to pay for my funeral so doubles as Immigration/funeral plan!!

[Pib]

Thank you very much Pib, that's what I'll do then...and I already have an account with BB. Thanks again....what a great source of information this site is.

Keep in mind a FCD is not covered under the Thailand Deposit Protection program.

[Lacessit]

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, that is feasible but as I've been doing this for several years, I would suggest that people avoid cutting it as close at that. It's not uncommon for people to encounter mechanical issues in their transfer of funds to Thailand. I generally leave four months before one month before expiration of my current permission to stay for my big annual top up. Of course if you spend more than planned you can also do top ups later which is something that I've done as well as unexpected expenses are to be expected.

You may be right. So far over 9 years, it has taken only one week maximum for the funds to transfer from my Australian credit union to Bangkok Bank. Usually 2-3 days. Possibly other banks may be slower.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Bert Jones said:

Thank you very much Pib, that's what I'll do then...and I already have an account with BB. Thanks again....what a great source of information this site is.

Go into just about any Bangkok Bank branch, and up on one of the walls will be a publicity blurb about Foreign Currency Deposits and the interest rates they are offering for various terms.

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You may be right. So far over 9 years, it has taken only one week maximum for the funds to transfer from my Australian credit union to Bangkok Bank. Usually 2-3 days. Possibly other banks may be slower.

I'm talking about more dramatic things like the banks/financial institutions in the home countries shutting off the transfer capability and/or closing accounts because they don't like people living abroad, etc. I think more common with Americans. 

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I'm talking about more dramatic things like the banks/financial institutions in the home countries shutting off the transfer capability and/or closing accounts because they don't like people living abroad, etc. I think more common with Americans. 

Banks in Australia are copping such a pasting in the current Royal Commission it's very unlikely they would go out on a limb that far. It would be a lawyers' feast.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Banks in Australia are copping such a pasting in the current Royal Commission it's very unlikely they would go out on a limb that far. It would be a lawyers' feast.

Interesting. U.S. banks are actually supported by law to be meanies to expats. It's called "know your customer" and it's hard for them to know customers living abroad, especially for decades. So yes my perspective is as an American that has had major hassles and closures with over half of the financial institutions I deal with due to living abroad issues. Obviously if you're doing a lot of transfers to Thailand over many years it's a major red flag clue that you live here.

 

For people with a high degree of confidence about the mechanics of their transfers always working, then they of course can afford to cut it very close. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Jingthing

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Interesting. U.S. banks are actually supported by law to be meanies to expats. It's called "know your customer" and it's hard for them to know customers living abroad, especially for decades. So yes my perspective is as an American that has had major hassles and closures with over half of the financial institutions I deal with due to living abroad issues. Obviously if you're doing a lot of transfers to Thailand over many years it's a major red flag clue that you live here.

 

For people with a high degree of confidence about the mechanics of their transfers always working, then they of course can afford to cut it very close. 

Interesting indeed. Where are your consumer and competition people?

A bit off topic, the limited warranties Amazon has on its products such as Kindles are overridden by Australian consumer law. And Amazon has accepted it. The alternative was to be banned from trading in Australia.

[luckyluke]

"or perhaps their Embassies have the means to truly verify income." 

 

Or maybe those embassies/consulates trust their citizens, assuming an insignifant % would eventually dare to falsify their income. 

 

Plus being confident that legally a government cannot do anything to an embassy/consulate if they find out that this embassy/consulate undersigned a document which content will later appear to be incorrect. 

 

Speculations of course. 

[Jumbo1968]

On 11/19/2018 at 9:34 PM, fforest1 said:

if you cannot verify the documents 100% they are not acceptable.
 

So the embassy letters were just fine for the last 18 years and now they are not ok for 4 countries but they are still fine for all other countries?....?.....?

A colleague has told me he has a joint account with his Thai ‘wife’ it was only a blessing for the 800000 and Immigration at Hua Hin accepted that, I thought it had to be a sloe Account ?