Health entitlement uk

[Geoffreyt]

As a UK pensioner resident in Thailand for 15 years planning a 2 month holiday in UK next year am I entitled to free  NHS treatment or will I be expected to pay?  I am a fit and healthy 85 year old but because of my age cannot get travel insurance.  Advice would be appreciated.

[Oxx]

You would have to pay.  To add insult to injury, you'd be charged at 150% of the NHS national tariff.

 

Of course, how would they know you're an expat?

[steve187]

32 minutes ago, Oxx said:

You would have to pay.  To add insult to injury, you'd be charged at 150% of the NHS national tariff.

 

Of course, how would they know you're an expat?

no doctors records etc. but would only be required for non urgent cases only.as the op would be entitled to emergency treatment, as is everyone.

[BritManToo]

12 hours ago, Geoffreyt said:

As a UK pensioner resident in Thailand for 15 years planning a 2 month holiday in UK next year am I entitled to free  NHS treatment or will I be expected to pay?

Depends how daft you are.

If you walk in and announce you've just spent 15 years abroad, then you'll probably have to pay.

If you walk in like any other patient, they won't ask.

 

If they mention you don't appear to be on any doctors list, why is that? at 85 the obvious reply is "I can't remember".

[Moonlover]

As you've already read, us lowly expats are now required to pay again for the treatment that we have already paid for.

 

However, unlike some parts of the world, doctors in the UK do actually honour the hypocritic oath that they all swear to, so you will not be refused treatment.

 

If you are presented with a bill you pay a small amount on account and agree to pay back the rest over, say, 20 years. Remember the old saying about blood and stones.

 

That should keep them happy!

Edited November 22, 2018 by Moonlover

[theoldgit]

5 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

As you've already read, us lowly expats are now required to pay again for the treatment that we have already paid for.

And if you're still a current tax payer, are still paying for.

 

This u-turn on a previous policy relies on the fact that our fellow countrymen don't give two hoots about how expats are treated, if they had their way we wouldn't be receiving pensions either, Ministers rely on this apathy, as they do with the frozen pensions travesty.

 

You are entitled to NHS cover immediately on setting foot on British soil if you can satisfy the authorities that you have returned to the UK permenantly, as many are doing now with the freefall in the value of the GBP, as the OP is returning for two months he may wish to explore this route. 

[Oxx]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

doctors in the UK do actually honour the hypocritic oath that they all swear to

 

I think you meant "Hippocratic Oath".  

 

Not all medical schools in the UK still use it.

[Moonlover]

2 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

I think you meant "Hippocratic Oath".  

 

Not all medical schools in the UK still use it.

Oh yes, sorry. Perhaps I was confusing it with the hypocrisy of 'show us your money first or we won't touch you'.

 

At least That won't happen in any UK NHS hospital where they think 'treatment first, money (if applicable) later.

 

I'm surprised at your comment though. I thought that Hippocratic Oath was universal. You live and learn.

 

ML

 

[simoh1490]

A&E  emergency care will be available to you free of charge, anything after that will require payment else you'll need to convince the NHS you've returned for good and that may not be easy. I returned to the UK in July having bought a flat there and registering for Council Tax and all the utilities, I even got back onto the Electoral Roll. Once all those things were complete I registered with a doctor but I made it clear I was only going to be in the UK for six months out of every twelve. The doctor's surgery had no problem registering me and I had a preliminary consultation with the doctor and had routine meds. prescribed, I was however required to produce two forms of proof of address and a Council Tax bill beforehand. I offered to pay for my routine meds by buying a one year subscription for £120, this was noted but ignored. I'm currently back in Thailand until April next year but when I go back I think I will pay for my meds. on an annual basis because I think that's the right thing to do, what might happen if I need anything more than just routine stuff from the doctor and say had to go into hospital for some reason I'm unsure, I should be OK but for sure I'm going to come under greater scrutiny.

[rodentwarrior]

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

A&E  emergency care will be available to you free of charge, anything after that will require payment else you'll need to convince the NHS you've returned for good and that may not be easy. I returned to the UK in July having bought a flat there and registering for Council Tax and all the utilities, I even got back onto the Electoral Roll. Once all those things were complete I registered with a doctor but I made it clear I was only going to be in the UK for six months out of every twelve. The doctor's surgery had no problem registering me and I had a preliminary consultation with the doctor and had routine meds. prescribed, I was however required to produce two forms of proof of address and a Council Tax bill beforehand. I offered to pay for my routine meds by buying a one year subscription for £120, this was noted but ignored. I'm currently back in Thailand until April next year but when I go back I think I will pay for my meds. on an annual basis because I think that's the right thing to do, what might happen if I need anything more than just routine stuff from the doctor and say had to go into hospital for some reason I'm unsure, I should be OK but for sure I'm going to come under greater scrutiny.

Why did you bother to mention the 6 months abroad thing?  Are you still a UK registered tax payer, or have you gone offshore for tax purposes?  I haven't lived in the UK for 15 years, but I still maintain a house there, pay all the utility bills etc, and I've never mentioned to any authority that I don't actually live there, why would I?  I am still a citizen of the UK, and have not become a tax exile in any case.  I have bank accounts in the UK and where I live now.  In a few years I will get my pension paid directly into my UK Bank account, and it will be index linked, not frozen. 

 

People who 'burn their boats' and officially abandon the UK, are 'cutting their nose off to spite their face'.  If you have a UK Passport, and you haven't put your big foot in it, you will get the treatment a taxpayer deserves.  You're not a health tourist this is your entitlement, and you have paid for it.

[Oxx]

10 minutes ago, rodentwarrior said:

In a few years I will get my pension paid directly into my UK Bank account, and it will be index linked, not frozen. 

 

And you will be a criminal.

 

It would hardly be beyond the wit of the authorities to use entry/departure records to work out who is and who isn't resident in the UK.  And when that day comes, you'll be caught out, along with all the other cheats.

[rodentwarrior]

13 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

And you will be a criminal.

 

It would hardly be beyond the wit of the authorities to use entry/departure records to work out who is and who isn't resident in the UK.  And when that day comes, you'll be caught out, along with all the other cheats.

Actually UK pensions are not frozen in my current location.  I am not cheating anyone.  Get a grip!  I paid for my pension, it is my entitlement when I reach 66.  Residency is not determined by actually being in a Country, a UK citizen is a UK citizen, unless that person decides otherwise.  A legal and valid UK Passport is the deciding factor.

Edited November 22, 2018 by rodentwarrior

[steve73]

3 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

A&E  emergency care will be available to you free of charge, anything after that will require payment else you'll need to convince the NHS you've returned for good and that may not be easy. I returned to the UK in July having bought a flat there and registering for Council Tax and all the utilities, I even got back onto the Electoral Roll. Once all those things were complete I registered with a doctor but I made it clear I was only going to be in the UK for six months out of every twelve. The doctor's surgery had no problem registering me and I had a preliminary consultation with the doctor and had routine meds. prescribed, I was however required to produce two forms of proof of address and a Council Tax bill beforehand. I offered to pay for my routine meds by buying a one year subscription for £120, this was noted but ignored. I'm currently back in Thailand until April next year but when I go back I think I will pay for my meds. on an annual basis because I think that's the right thing to do, what might happen if I need anything more than just routine stuff from the doctor and say had to go into hospital for some reason I'm unsure, I should be OK but for sure I'm going to come under greater scrutiny.

If they're routine meds you should be able to get them much cheaper in T/L.

E.g. I occasionally take Omeprazole for acid indigestion.. Last time in the UK (3 years ago) I paid around 10 quid for 6 (or may have been 6 quid for 10) off prescription, for use during my stay there.  In one of the larger pharmacies in BKK, I recently bought the same (generic) for just 90bt for 100. 

Not so easy to get opiates here though..!!!

[BritManToo]

34 minutes ago, Oxx said:

It would hardly be beyond the wit of the authorities to use entry/departure records to work out who is and who isn't resident in the UK.  And when that day comes, you'll be caught out, along with all the other cheats.

 

UK doesn't keep such details. To do so they'd currently need to be linked to all EU borders (They aren't).

And criminals get free health care, dental care plus free room and board, better than a OAP care home.

Edited November 22, 2018 by BritManToo

[rodentwarrior]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

UK doesn't keep such details.

And criminals get free health care, dental care plus free room and board.

As do all the illegal immigrants, that's part of the attraction of the UK and why these people cross plenty of EU Countries to get there.

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, rodentwarrior said:

Why did you bother to mention the 6 months abroad thing?  Are you still a UK registered tax payer, or have you gone offshore for tax purposes?  I haven't lived in the UK for 15 years, but I still maintain a house there, pay all the utility bills etc, and I've never mentioned to any authority that I don't actually live there, why would I?  I am still a citizen of the UK, and have not become a tax exile in any case.  I have bank accounts in the UK and where I live now.  In a few years I will get my pension paid directly into my UK Bank account, and it will be index linked, not frozen. 

 

People who 'burn their boats' and officially abandon the UK, are 'cutting their nose off to spite their face'.  If you have a UK Passport, and you haven't put your big foot in it, you will get the treatment a taxpayer deserves.  You're not a health tourist this is your entitlement, and you have paid for it.

I became non-UK resident in 2004 when I moved to Thailand, I did that because it was beneficial to me financially plus it was the correct thing to do legally - was required to inform the pensions people I was living offshore so that meant telling the tax people also, people who don't do that are simply scamming the system and deserve to be caught and penalised. But now I've bought property there once again I am quite happy to be tax resident once again, in fact, resident for all purposes.

[simoh1490]

43 minutes ago, steve73 said:

If they're routine meds you should be able to get them much cheaper in T/L.

E.g. I occasionally take Omeprazole for acid indigestion.. Last time in the UK (3 years ago) I paid around 10 quid for 6 (or may have been 6 quid for 10) off prescription, for use during my stay there.  In one of the larger pharmacies in BKK, I recently bought the same (generic) for just 90bt for 100. 

Not so easy to get opiates here though..!!!

Generic rouvestation in Thailand costs me 1,200 baht for one month; Dexilent costs me 2,000 baht a month - that's 3,200 per month or £78 per month. A one month NHS meds. supply coupon costs £120 per year.

[rodentwarrior]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

I became non-UK resident in 2004 when I moved to Thailand, I did that because it was beneficial to me financially plus it was the correct thing to do legally - was required to inform the pensions people I was living offshore so that meant telling the tax people also, people who don't do that are simply scamming the system and deserve to be caught and penalised. But now I've bought property there once again I am quite happy to be tax resident once again, in fact, resident for all purposes.

You seem to be confused.  It's not at all illegal to live abroad, but remain domiciled in the UK for tax purposes.  There is no scam involved.  There is no 'correct thing to do' with regards to this case.  You appear to have chosen a legal loophole so you could avoid UK Tax, to benefit yourself.  

 

I still pay tax in the UK, but I spend my valuable time as a permanent tourist, and I can enjoy the benefits of the NHS when it suits me.  I am breaking no Laws.  You need to lighten up.

Edited November 22, 2018 by rodentwarrior

[simoh1490]

23 minutes ago, rodentwarrior said:

You seem to be confused.  It's not at all illegal to live abroad, but remain domiciled in the UK for tax purposes.  There is no scam involved.  There is no 'correct thing to do' with regards to this case.  You appear to have chosen a legal loophole so you could avoid UK Tax, to benefit yourself.  

 

I still pay tax in the UK, but I spend my valuable time as a permanent tourist, and I can enjoy the benefits of the NHS when it suits me.  I am breaking no Laws.  You need to lighten up.

Domicile and tax residency are two totally different and separate things, tax residency can be changed according to the rules, domicile is much much harder and in many cases is only decided after you die. But we digress:

 

By electing to become not UK resident (for any purpose) in 2004 meant that I didn't have to pay UK tax on a lot of my earnings, especially useful since I have several pensions that arise offshore UK plus at the time I had substantial investments and cash which earned income - all legal, all kosher. But by declaring myself not UK resident meant that I wasn't eligible for annual cost of living increases on my UK state pension, it also meant that I was taxed by the US on my US SSc pension because I wasn't living in the UK (I know, it's odd). All of that was fine back then, today it's no longer fine and with low interest rates being maintained it's to my financial advantage to become UK tax resident and whilst at it, resident for all other purposes as well. That means I now get paid my annual cost of living increase (backdated) on my UK state pension, and I no longer pay US tax on my US SSc pension. 

 

As a bi-product of the above, I now spend six months each year in the UK, that means I am once again eligible for free NHS treatment because the NHS is a residency based system. Sooo, I do have six month long holidays but I also reside in the UK for six months, that means I'm playing by all the rules that exist today. If you have UK property etc and maintain a UK face, good luck with all of that and if you run into difficulty with the NHS at some point, or the state pension people, because you weren't actually living in the UK you'll know the reason why.

 

 

[i claudius]

 

And you will be a criminal.

 

It would hardly be beyond the wit of the authorities to use entry/departure records to work out who is and who isn't resident in the UK.  And when that day comes, you'll be caught out, along with all the other cheats.

No not a criminal,but a sensable guy who paid in and deserves his FULL pension, as for getting caught ,coming and going ,pigs will fly before that happens,they dont care that much.

And if they do catch him what will they do? I know of someone who was reported ,gave them a sob story and never heard any more.

 

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[theoldgit]

On 11/22/2018 at 2:25 PM, BritManToo said:

UK doesn't keep such details. To do so they'd currently need to be linked to all EU borders (They aren't).

Actually the UK does collect data from people leaving the UK, it’s collected by carriers, including Eurostar and ferry companies, and then passed onto the UKBA.

After embarkation controls were scrapped to save money there were complaints that the UKBA didn’t know who’d left the country.

The Government reintroduced collation of this data a few years ago but the onus was put onto carriers to collect the data rather than Border Force staff.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, theoldgit said:

Actually the UK does collect data from people leaving the UK, it’s collected by carriers, including Eurostar and ferry companies, and then passed onto the UKBA.

The carriers can't know your end destination though.

You might be staying in Europe (I have my EHIC), or flying on to the Philippines (pension).

Edited December 7, 2018 by BritManToo

[rodentwarrior]

On 11/22/2018 at 10:01 AM, simoh1490 said:

If you have UK property etc and maintain a UK face, good luck with all of that and if you run into difficulty with the NHS at some point, or the state pension people, because you weren't actually living in the UK you'll know the reason why.

 

 

 

The UK State Pension is available to all qualified citizens, regardless of where they live - FACT.

Some Countries, like LOS, are not within the framework with regard to annual increases, that is a FACT, but since I don't live in LOS it doesn't concern me, my state pension remains fully index linked in my current Country of choice, where I live as a tourist.

 

I remain a resident of the UK for tax purposes, regardless of where I spend my time.  There will be no difficulty whatsoever!

 

As a tax paying resident of the UK I remain fully entitled to use the NHS, a service I continue to help fund through income tax.

[Kwasaki]

On 11/21/2018 at 6:38 PM, Geoffreyt said:

I am a fit and healthy 85 year old

So what do you want the NHS for.