Income statement letters from embassies no longer required, confirms Phuket Immigration

[Olmate]

6 minutes ago, xylophone said:

The stat dec clearly stated it was just that and not verified and it was accepted by TI

 

That is the puzzling bit in all of this IMO because the letters I got from 2 different embassies stated on the letter that this letter was not "proof" (in so many words) and this letter was always accepted by immigration, so what changed??

 

Were they just accepting it without really knowing what it said, until someone pointed this out this was not "proof" of anything, hence the new requirement being asked of the embassies????

Don’t think so, when on many occasions people have been asked for supporting evidence,and not just recently.Common to hear “Get your letter and supporting statements, you may be asked”Indicates TI staff doing such extensions were well aware. 

[luckyluke]

The Austrian Consulate in Pattaya issue and sign a Letter of Income  stating that I have a monthly  income of xxxx Euro or xxxxxx ThB, so not that I declare so (Affidavit).

In my case, I provide a document from the Belgian Office of Pension, and a document from my Belgian bank showing the monthly incomes.

 

I suppose by declaring and signing this document the Consulate is taken the responsibility if something may be incorrect.

However I don't think there is a  way for a country to legally pursuit an embassy/consulate.

[crees]

Trat Immigration does not accept anything but a Income verification letter from your Embassy. Maybe they will be informed of the new requirement in the future … but turned my Bangkok Bank Statement down yesterday and said they have to have an Embassy Income Verification letter or they will not take my re-newel papers.  

Edited December 2, 2018 by crees
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[Olmate]

2 minutes ago, crees said:

Trat Immigration does not accept anything but a Income verification letter from your Embassy. Maybe they will be informed of the new requirement in the future … but turned my Bangkok Bank Statement down yesterday and said they have to have an income verification letter or they will not take my re-newel papers.  

Which Embassy, if your quick you can still do that

[luckyluke]

13 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Which Embassy, if your quick you can still do that

If you are American, Australian, British.

For the Danes too late.

For the other nationalities nothing changed ( so far ).

[meinphuket]

On November 22, 2561 BE at 10:59 PM, fforest1 said:

Their are 195 countries in the world....4 have said no more letters.....Sense no embassy can 100% guarantee income from all their citizens that means they would ALL have to stop issuing the letter..... 191 embassies who after a few months now have said nothing......Yes some more embassies I am sure will say no more letters but that will still leave a shit ton of embassies who will continue to issue them.....Some thing stinks about this whole thing....

Thailand does not host 195 countries' diplomatic missions.

[luckyluke]

There are 84 embassies/consulates in Bangkok.

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I'm curious as to "the proof" that was required by other embassies. As I stated above, for Australians there was no proof. You could state anything you wanted (BTW I personally have never done one). Yes it was a stat dec, but zero ramifications if Thai imm rejected it.

What docs where required by other embassies. I mean what was seriously examined by embassy and not just a tick/stamp here, with comment NEXT.

German embassy;- passport, letter from the pension provider/s, bank statements. looked at, yes. Your info recorded into their computer for future reference.

[JackThompson]

12 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

And according to some other embassies' staff, UK and US embassies overreacted when Thai Immigration reminded them that they were supposed to verify the amount declared on their letters...

We may never know the truth, except if TI clearly declares/publishes that it has changed the requirements about these letters.

Now, thanks to the embassies acting first, they don't have to.  That is the part of this episode, where the embassies deserve full-blame.

 

3 hours ago, luckyluke said:

And still there are some who expect that therefore it is to T.I. to modify their directives. 

No, but they needed to make a public-statement that the letters they had been accepting without issue for years  are not going the be accepted any more at some point in the future.  To be civilized, that would have a "beginning on" date at least a year-out from the announcement's publication.

 

3 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Interesting debate above. As for Australian embassy.... the "verification letter" from embassy was basically a stamp on the stat dec made by the au passport holder. Zero "proof of funds" was required. In essence turn up to embassy state that you receive ###baht per month. Total nonsense. The embassy can't/won't check the varsity of statement and nor can Thai immigration. That "proof of funds" was a doomed idea. 

The letters were not a problem to Thai Immigration for decades.  And not "nonsense" for the vast majority, who are unwilling to commit a felony-offense (similar to the USA, in this respect).  If they thought it was being abused, they could have made referrals for prosecution.

[Pattaya46]

16 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Quote

And still there are some who expect that therefore it is to T.I. to modify their directives.

No, but they needed to make a public-statement that the letters they had been accepting without issue for years  are not going the be accepted any more at some point in the future.

That would mean they had thought at one point to not accept these letters, but we have zero proof of that, and I really doubt about it.

Very probably they just wanted these embassies to be a bit more strict in the verification of the amount they wrote on their letter; they no wanted them to stop a system who - except this verification point - was working well and good for everyone for years.

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

was working well and good for everyone for years

And so easy for the Immigration officers :

1 document from a bank with one amount.

or

1 document from an embassy/consulate with

one/two amounts.

 

[onera1961]

26 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

No, but they needed to make a public-statement that the letters they had been accepting without issue for years  are not going the be accepted any more at some point in the future. 

How can they make a blanket statement that they are not going to accept those letters in the future, affecting citizens of all other countries that still have no problems issuing income letters? 

 

 

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

No, but they needed to make a public-statement that the letters they had been accepting without issue for years  are not going the be accepted any more at some point in the future.

My guess would be that, if they felt that they needed to make a statement, they would have made a statement.

[luckyluke]

As already mention before in one or another topic here on T.V.;

if T.I. eventually will amend their directives, it will to suit them, not to suit the expats or some nationalities in particular.

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

How can they make a blanket statement that they are not going to accept those letters in the future, affecting citizens of all other countries that still have no problems issuing income letters? 

They would need to state specific criteria of what would be required, so that every embassy could respond with "we can" or we cannot" - and all expats would know exactly where they stood.

 

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

My guess would be that, if they felt that they needed to make a statement, they would have made a statement.

Well, since several embassies folded their cards, it appears they don't have to.  We will see how Canadians fare next year.

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Well, since several embassies folded their cards,

Folded their cards? That's an interesting choice of words. You might also say 

 

"Since several embassies would no longer tolerate the BS from Thai IMM ..."

Edited December 2, 2018 by JLCrab

[stud858]

Does Thailand have a foreign affairs or immigration minister? Does anyone know the name of such minister? 

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Does Thailand have a foreign affairs or immigration minister? Does anyone know the name of such minister? 

Google "Thailand Ministry of Foreign Affairs."

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Does Thailand have a foreign affairs or immigration minister?

They have a minister of Foreign Affairs but he only has authority over embassies and consulates who issue visas.

Info is here: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/organize/49162-Minister-of-Foreign-Affairs.html

There is no minister directly over the Immigration Bureau since it part of the Royal Thai police. The ministry of interior is responsible for doing ministerial orders for immigration requirements.

[stud858]

16 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Google "Thailand Ministry of Foreign Affairs."

Cheers champ.

Mr. Don Pramudwinai is the
Minister of Foreign Affairs of Thailand. Stated on their website.

It states that an original income certificate is required for 65k a month or 800k.

No mention of affidavits.

if Imm. Officers are using different rules I would contact the Minister and ask for confirmation. 

 

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, stud858 said:

It states that an original income certificate is required for 65k a month or 800k.

No mention of affidavits.

That is to get a non-oa visa applied for at a embassy or official Thai consulate.

There are different rules for visas than those for extensions of stay that immigration issue.

[stud858]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is to get a non-oa visa applied for at a embassy or official Thai consulate.

There are different rules for visas than extension of stay that immigration issue.

Section 5.4 gives details on the extensions and it states income certificates can be used, but to show 800k. And not the 65k in this instance.

Ofcourse I'm not expecting the Imm. Officers to follow the written law, but I think the immigration minister would like to know if confusion exists under his watch.

It might be worth contacting him....or not..and the website updated.

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Section 5.4 gives details on the extensions and it states income certificates can be used, but to show 800k. And not the 65k in this instance.

Ofcourse I'm not expecting the Imm. Officers to follow the written law, but I think the immigration minister would like to know if confusion exists under his watch.

What website are you quoting?

There no 5.4 on the immigration website for extensions based upon retirement.

See: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

What is written on the MFA website is not from any immigration rule. Just info that probably should not even be on that website.

[stud858]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

What website are you quoting?

There no 5.4 on the immigration website for extensions based upon retirement.

See: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

What is written on the MFA website is not from any immigration rule. Just info that probably should not even be on that website.

The mfa certainly needs to decide if they want to supply info it needs to be accurate. And i would think they have the power to be atleast involved and influence what is to be finally sorted regarding the income letter issue.  

Would be worth a try communicating with them imo. 

If they can't help. Sigh.

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

See bottom most section. 5.4

 

 

[Acharn]

On 11/23/2018 at 11:42 PM, Maverell said:

I  have been transferring cash from abroad every month into my Thai bank - never had a problem in 12 years. I cant understand why people who live here long term use an ATM card from a foreign bank and accept the outrageous costs involved.

What outrageous cost? I'm charged ฿220 per cash withdrawal. I assume it's true of all American banks, but my credit union is unable to transfer funds to any overseas destination except by wire transfer, which must be arranged by telephone each time at a cost of $30 per (~฿975). My credit union gives me an exchange rate within a few satang of the SCB TT rate. Overall it could be somewhat cheaper to make the wire transfer, but then I would have the hassle of calling the credit union and no way of knowing how long it would take for the money to reach my bank account. I think you must not bank in the United States. If I opened an account with the New York branch of Bangkok Bank I would have to go in person to the bank to make a withdrawal. No ATM cards allowed for those accounts in Thailand that the New York branch transfers the money to. There are other possibilities, but it may be they are not going to continue granting extensions based on monthly pensions anyway. Have to wait and see.

[Acharn]

For what it's worth, I was at the Nakhon Sawan Immigration Office this morning for my 90 day report and asked them. Their belief is that after January you must have the ฿800K. No way to verify the monthly income. They may not have yet received the updated policy, or the policy may be changed, but they said that I'm going to have to have the ฿800,000. When I said there was no way I could, they smiled sympathetically.

[Acharn]

22 hours ago, JLCrab said:

My guess would be that, if they felt that they needed to make a statement, they would have made a statement.

Do you remember when Thaksin appointed Purachai as Minister of the Interior? At that time the police, including Immigration, came under the Interior Ministry. Purachai was quite anti-farang, although then his kids were going to school in New Zealand and he now lives there. He didn't mess with visa extension rules, but he sure did with permanent residence and naturalization rules. No announcement was ever made. In fact it was quite difficult to even find out what had happened. Of course they do not feel a need to make an announcement.

[garyk]

1 hour ago, Acharn said:

For what it's worth, I was at the Nakhon Sawan Immigration Office this morning for my 90 day report and asked them. Their belief is that after January you must have the ฿800K. No way to verify the monthly income. They may not have yet received the updated policy, or the policy may be changed, but they said that I'm going to have to have the ฿800,000. When I said there was no way I could, they smiled sympathetically.

Personally I would not doubt it. But, in less than a month the reports will be coming in.

If I can get by with another year on the letter fine. If not fine.

Does not affect me either way. As I am not invested in Thailand.

I have an old pickup here and I signed it over to my Thai GF. So which ever the wind blows I am set. 800K in a Thai bank is not going to happen with me. Nor is the 65K / mo. coming into a Thai bank. Luckily I don't have to put up with it so I am happy either way.

[Formaleins]

Thailand, Hub of Optimism.