Report on Buriram Imm Office Extension of Stay & Income Requirements

[UniqueWord]

FWIW, here's a summary of my visit to Buriram Immigration 22 Nov 2018.

I was there for my 90-day report and at the same time asked the IO about the financial
requirements for renewing my Marriage Extension on 9 May 2019.  Currently I have a British
Passport and have used the Income Letter method in the past.  The IO was fully aware that
these Letters were no longer being issued by UK/US/AUS and Danish Embassies, with
different effective dates; the BE Notice on the subject was taped to the side of one of the
display consoles and clearly visible to all customers.

 At first the IO said that a Letter from my Thai Bank with a Statement showing foreign income
deposits for the prior 12 months in excess of 40K THB/month would be acceptable, but after
consultation with a more senior Officer, he changed that to say that only a Statement which
showed 400K THB deposited in the Bank for at least the prior 2 months would be
acceptable.  The IO to whom I spoke was a 2-striper, but the more senior Officer was not in
uniform so his rank is unknown.  The IO explained that the income which I could prove to be
deposited every month in a Thai Bank was no longer useful for Immigration because we
spent it; they want to see evidence of money in a Bank.

Because I have dual citizenship UK & Canadian, I then asked about changing my Passport to
be Canadian.  Again after consulting the senior Officer he said it was not possible to transfer
the Extension to a passport with a different nationality.  In this case I would have to leave
Thailand and re-enter with the new passport and a new Visa and start the process over
again.  When I asked him about  changing to Canada, he asked in return if the CE were
better placed to verify my income than the BE, and if the CE would be continuing the service.  
I said I had no idea on both issues.  He was clearly skeptical on the subject.

During this Q & A session, Mrs UW was present and took an active role in ensuring there
were no misunderstandings.  At the end of the meeting, the IO suggested a path forward
might be to borrow the 400K from family or friends for only the required 2 months.  There was
no hint or suggestion of the use of an Agent, or a simple one-time 'processing fee' over the
normal Extension fee of 1,900 THB.

This report is for information; I'm not drawing any conclusion, except to speculate that
Immigration still have no clear idea on how to handle the 'income' part of the requirements.  
What I was told at Buriram Imm Office is clearly at odds with the notice from the BE, and if I
understand correctly, Thai Immigration Law.

Sadly, at this juncture, although I have had a legal income stream for the last decade and can prove that my Thai Bank account is credited every month with a Foreign Transfer of significantly more than 40K THB/month I can see no clear path forward that does not involve either the use of an Agent, the artifact of short-term loans, or 'under the table' payments that are illegal.

Or the option of trusting the Canadians will not bow to the 'winds of change' and starting over again with a Canadian passport.

We live in Interesting Times.

Cheers, UW.

[ubonjoe]

Asking a local office about using proof of the funds being transferred into the country will not give any reliable answer at this time. Until the Immigration Bureau announces a change in the rules they will just tell you what the current policy is.

[Robins]

There's no reason to think Burriram or Immigration in general are going to back down from the 400,000/800,000 in the Thai bank requirement. I don't blame them in a way, anything else is too easy for the scammers to fake but it was imposed too suddenly.  I'm 60 and didn't even have a savings account until I opened one at a Thai Bank last week. (at 60 what do I have to save for?) 

I'm desperately trying save cash as quickly as I can, and hope to get one more year under the old system by getting an income verification letter on the last day (31st December at America Embassy).  You may want to do the same at your embassy if buying more time will help. 

 

Sad, my income from a police retirement works out to 129,000 Baht a month, nearly twice the requirement but scraping 800,000 Baht together with 5 months notice is nearly impossible.    It's not what they did, but how suddenly they did it with no notice that is going to wreck many people's lives.  

Edited November 24, 2018 by Robins
spelling

[BertM]

44 minutes ago, Robins said:

There's no reason to think Burriram or Immigration in general are going to back down from the 400,000/800,000 in the Thai bank requirement. I don't blame them in a way, anything else is too easy for the scammers to fake but it was imposed too suddenly.  I'm 60 and didn't even have a savings account until I opened one at a Thai Bank last week. (at 60 what do I have to save for?) 

I'm desperately trying save cash as quickly as I can, and hope to get one more year under the old system by getting an income verification letter on the last day (31st December at America Embassy).  You may want to do the same at your embassy if buying more time will help. 

 

Sad, my income from a police retirement works out to 129,000 Baht a month, nearly twice the requirement but scraping 800,000 Baht together with 5 months notice is nearly impossible.    It's not what they did, but how suddenly they did it with no notice that is going to wreck many people's lives.  

Mr. Robins,

You should be fine (cross fingers) if you are renewing your extension in May or Jun 2019 with the income affidavit (which is supposed to be good for 6 mths from the date of issuance) and with your retirement statement as supporting documentation. If successful, that will give you over a year to accumulate the 800k for the next year's renewal in 2020 if needed. Let's hope in the next 6 mths, TI will announce/clarify the rules on the monthly income method going forward. Take care...  

Edited November 24, 2018 by BertM

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, Robins said:

I'm desperately trying save cash as quickly as I can, and hope to get one more year under the old system by getting an income verification letter on the last day (31st December at America Embassy).  You may want to do the same at your embassy if buying more time will help. 

 

Sad, my income from a police retirement works out to 129,000 Baht a month, nearly twice the requirement but scraping 800,000 Baht together with 5 months notice is nearly impossible.    It's not what they did, but how suddenly they did it with no notice that is going to wreck many people's lives.  

Reading your post, I realized this will be a hard-winter and coming year for many Thai businesses, as thousands of "regular customer" expats stop spending on anything but bare-minimum survival, as they try to save up useless "stuck-in-the-bank money" from their regular incomes, to qualify for a future extension.  In most cases, the money will never move (these folks living on income), so it is being sucked directly out of the Thai economy. 

 

Hopefully immigration-central releases some clear and good-news info soon, so this rough-period for Thai businesses can end as soon as possible.

[Robins]

^  ^^   I solved my problem tonight in a way I didn't think possible; the California Bank which receives and processes my pension checks every month approved a $25000 online loan request in less than 2 hours.  I then called them and all is good.  I didn't think they would approve it with me in Thailand but they did and are even letting me sign the loan papers electronically by e mail. 

I feel so relieved.   Those on pensions may want to check with their banks at home as a possible source of all or some of the required sum.  

 

[wayned]

16 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Asking a local office about using proof of the funds being transferred into the country will not give any reliable answer at this time. Until the Immigration Bureau announces a change in the rules they will just tell you what the current policy is.

Are you admitting that the posting on the USE website that you referred me to that Thai Immigration will begin accepting documents of proof of income effective 26 October is total BS in a vain attempt by the US Administration to wipe their hands of the issue and make them look good!  Much like most of the information released by the current administration.

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, wayned said:

Are you admitting that the posting on the USE website that you referred me to that Thai Immigration will begin accepting documents of proof of income effective 26 October is total BS in a vain attempt by the US Administration to wipe their hands of the issue and make them look good!  Much like most of the information released by the current administration.

I have only it was something immigration told the US and UK embassies and I have never said that immigration would begin doing anything.

I wrote what I have written numerous times in my post that "Until the Immigration Bureau announces a change in the rules they will just tell you what the current policy is".

[mikosan]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I have only it was something immigration told the US and UK embassies and I have never said that immigration would begin doing anything.

I wrote what I have written numerous times in my post that "Until the Immigration Bureau announces a change in the rules they will just tell you what the current policy is".

You're a man with his finger on the pulse in these matters, Ubonjoe.  Do you think that TI will revise/review their requirements in the foreseeable future.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, mikosan said:

Do you think that TI will revise/review their requirements in the foreseeable future.

Yes I do or at least a clarification of what will be accepted without proof of income from an embassy. No sure how long it will take them though.

[wwest5829]

On 11/24/2018 at 12:42 PM, Robins said:

There's no reason to think Burriram or Immigration in general are going to back down from the 400,000/800,000 in the Thai bank requirement. I don't blame them in a way, anything else is too easy for the scammers to fake but it was imposed too suddenly.  I'm 60 and didn't even have a savings account until I opened one at a Thai Bank last week. (at 60 what do I have to save for?) 

I'm desperately trying save cash as quickly as I can, and hope to get one more year under the old system by getting an income verification letter on the last day (31st December at America Embassy).  You may want to do the same at your embassy if buying more time will help. 

 

Sad, my income from a police retirement works out to 129,000 Baht a month, nearly twice the requirement but scraping 800,000 Baht together with 5 months notice is nearly impossible.    It's not what they did, but how suddenly they did it with no notice that is going to wreck many people's lives.  

Unless the law is changed the income method is as viable as the large deposit. We will wait and see. I am OK until next extension request in July 2019. By that time the smoke should have cleared.

[wwest5829]

17 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Reading your post, I realized this will be a hard-winter and coming year for many Thai businesses, as thousands of "regular customer" expats stop spending on anything but bare-minimum survival, as they try to save up useless "stuck-in-the-bank money" from their regular incomes, to qualify for a future extension.  In most cases, the money will never move (these folks living on income), so it is being sucked directly out of the Thai economy. 

 

Hopefully immigration-central releases some clear and good-news info soon, so this rough-period for Thai businesses can end as soon as possible.

Yes, we need clarification of how to verify the monthly income but there has been no suggestion the the Kingdom of Thailand is changing the current income requirements as stated by Foreign Affairs, the worldwide Thai Embassy postings nor Thai Immigration.

[ReMarKable]

If the USA, UK, etc cannot verify income, how can Thailand?

[wayned]

8 hours ago, ReMarKable said:

If the USA, UK, etc cannot verify income, how can Thailand?

They cant!  And in addition any documentation submitted by the applicant will be in their native language which would be impossible and unrealistic to think that the Immigration Officers could understand them. 

 

I only can see that TI come up with a system that they will require the applicant to have the monthly payments deposited into a Thai bank account and that they would accept a copy of the bankbook as proof with some requirement that the book shows deposits for some predetermined period of time hopefully grandfathered at the start of the program.   I can show deposits on my US SSA account on a monthly basis back to January 2007.  My private pension goes back to 2000 but would be more difficult to show as it goes into a joint account that is used daily via internet banking and the bankbook hasn't been updated since October 2011.

[ReMarKable]

11 hours ago, wayned said:

They cant!  And in addition any documentation submitted by the applicant will be in their native language which would be impossible and unrealistic to think that the Immigration Officers could understand them. 

 

I only can see that TI come up with a system that they will require the applicant to have the monthly payments deposited into a Thai bank account and that they would accept a copy of the bankbook as proof with some requirement that the book shows deposits for some predetermined period of time hopefully grandfathered at the start of the program.   I can show deposits on my US SSA account on a monthly basis back to January 2007.  My private pension goes back to 2000 but would be more difficult to show as it goes into a joint account that is used daily via internet banking and the bankbook hasn't been updated since October 2011.

I believe you are correct.  What I believe might be added to the mess is Bank verification of the total number of deposit's and their sum to your account from your home country per year.  It of would of course cost some small amount to get the bank verification stamped.

[gk10002000]

So just imagine if for one month, one did not have 65,000 baht transferred, but instead once every three months one had 3x65,000 baht transferred in as proof of income.  Again a BS system because this in no way is proof of any reliable steady future income.  Really needs to be some way worked out where a farang brings proof of income, pension, dividends, whatever and that gets certified by somebody that the Thais designate or trust and that understands by some pre agreed upon criteria and examples what proof of income is.   I would be happy to assist in making up such guidelines.   Example:  USA Social security benefits:  I believe the SSA generates a letter and one can log in to the website in front of an officer showing it is the actual person, or getting such a letter notarized etc.  I am sure the UK and other countries have some income letter.  Military pensioners I am sure the US Military pay records produces something in the way of retirement pay.  I am ex military but separated and not retired so not sure exactly how military pensions can be proved.  I suggest bank statement listing deposits would be suffice?  Stock and Fund dividend income. To me, these are as reliable sources as some government and private pensions!  My Etrade broker can supply a letter asserting the future expected income from the equities I hold.  And can also provide all past income transactions.  Tax returns like the USA 1040 might be useful as proof of past income, but don't really prove future income, but could be presented as an example for say rental or property or royalty income.    Perhaps a 3rd party agency for some nominal fee could accept these documents and an in person interview and then they would or could issue a proper letter to the Thai officials that they would then agree to.  This would certainly be more reliable than just an oath and affirmation that current embassies do.  Or the Embassies themselves could in coordination with the Thais only issue the income letters, if they follow some sort of verification process along the lines I just listed.  That would be the more logical approach and easiest to implement since the foreign embassies would know and understand the income methods and proofs that would exist in those home countries better than any Thai or 3rd part agency. This is all relatively simple to do, if some agreements are reached. 

[Deerculler]

We still don’t really know what triggered all this.

 

[Marius Brok]

On 11/24/2018 at 5:38 AM, ubonjoe said:

Asking a local office about using proof of the funds being transferred into the country will not give any reliable answer at this time. Until the Immigration Bureau announces a change in the rules they will just tell you what the current policy is.

Dear Ubonjoe,,

Is it possible to have a legalised income proof by the Royal Thai Embassy in your homeland, and this use at Immigration? 

[ubonjoe]

7 hours ago, Marius Brok said:

Is it possible to have a legalised income proof by the Royal Thai Embassy in your homeland, and this use at Immigration? 

I cannot answer your question since at this time the only proof of income immigration accepts is a letter from your embassy. 

In any case the Thai embassy would not legalize it until it was legalized by an entity in your home country.