EU agrees 'best possible' Brexit deal, urges Britons to back May

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, KiChakayan said:

 

 

Is this a reference to those magnificent English victories, Crecy, Poitiers and Crecy ("popularily" attributed solely to English bowmen), during the "Hundred Years War"?

 

Once again, extremely partial knowledge of English/European History makes its presence felt.

 

The end result of the war?:

 

Victory of France and its allies. • House of Valois retains the French throne; English and French monarchies remain separate • Agnatic primogeniture confirmed as the law of French royal succession • Strengthening of the French monarchy • House of Plantagenet is weakened, leading to the Wars of the Roses • English claims to the French throne de facto abandoned • Decline of chivalry • Decline of feudalism

Territorial changes

England permanently loses all of its previous continental possessions but gains the Pale of Calais

 

Still, decline of feudalism was a "good thing".

 

Hundred Years' War - Wikipedia

"When the war ended, England was bereft of its Continental possessions, leaving it with only Calais on the continent. The war destroyed the English dream of a joint monarchy"

 

Englands dream, not ....."theirs".

 

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Enoon

[Chelseafan]

7 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I am not sure what else to say; for those who felt that the UK had to leave the EU, I sincerely hope that you still feel it was worth it a few years down the road.

 

 

I think those who wanted to leave the EU wanted to LEAVE the EU, not this half way baked plan. It doesn't satisfy either the remainers or the Brexiteers.

I think May & the EU leaders have played us like fools.

 

The media are saying this won't get through parliament ? I'm not so sure especially when Labour realise that if they reject this deal then the alternative of a hard Brexit could be so much worse.

 

Well played Junker/May....well played.

 

[Chelseafan]

4 hours ago, grumbleweed said:

Still not learned that threatening the British is not something they respond kindly to. They'll more likely respond with "Okay bring it on, tossers"

Steady on old chap. "Tossers" is a very strong word

 

To say we're miffed is about right.

[Chelseafan]

4 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Many of those who voted leave will be dead from old age in a few years anyway, so they will neither know nor care.

 

The referendum should have been restricted to people under the age of 60, simply because they will be the ones most affected by it.

And those over 40 who have life experience and are able to make an informed decision rather than a rash one.

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Chelseafan

[evadgib]

10 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

I think those who wanted to leave the EU wanted to LEAVE the EU, not this half way baked plan. It doesn't satisfy either the remainers or the Brexiteers.

I think May & the EU leaders have played us like fools.

 

The media are saying this won't get through parliament ? I'm not so sure especially when Labour realise that if they reject this deal then the alternative of a hard Brexit could be so much worse.

 

Well played Junker/May....well played.

 

I haven't yet heard what the likes of Davis or JRM make of it.

[Chelseafan]

2 hours ago, the guest said:

It did get the best possible deal, what did you expect from the EU? It said from the very beginning that the UK could not 'cherry-pick' the parts it wants from the cornerstone of EU directives, in order for that to happen you must be in the EU. The UK chose to leave, so it got the best deal under the circumstances.

If the UK was going to seriously negotiate then send in people who are skilled negotiators. Politicians have their own agenda and Civil servants do what they can to slow down processes.

[evadgib]

9 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Steady on old chap. "Tossers" is a very strong word

 

To say we're miffed is about right.

Yeah, but he understandably upgraded after seeing your screen name ????

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

Knocked into a cocked hat by the % of brexiters posting on these boards who live happily in mixed race relationships ????

This might explain it for you:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/opinion/sunday/alt-right-asian-fetish.html

[dunroaming]

2 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

I think those who wanted to leave the EU wanted to LEAVE the EU, not this half way baked plan. It doesn't satisfy either the remainers or the Brexiteers.

I think May & the EU leaders have played us like fools.

 

The media are saying this won't get through parliament ? I'm not so sure especially when Labour realise that if they reject this deal then the alternative of a hard Brexit could be so much worse.

 

Well played Junker/May....well played.

 

It is estimated by the NIESR that with May's deal the UK economy will drop by 3.9% or £100 billion a year.  That alone should be enough to vote it down.

 

I think that Labour will vote against this in the house along with most other parties.  If it comes to a no deal scenario then there would be calls for a general election and then Labour (even with Corbyn at their head) would win hands down.  If (when) the deal is rejected May's options are going to be very limited indeed.

[Bluespunk]

3 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

 A ten year old would have negotiated a better deal than this. Utterly  pathetic. Only one way to go now, a no deal hard Brexit.

I think that there are many who would disagree that there is only one way to go. 

[dunroaming]

Over the months and now years of chewing the fat over Brexit  many predictions have been made by both camps.  "They need us more than we need them" and "they will do a deal at the last moment" look like being somewhat off the mark.  I thought that leaving would probably weaken the EU to such an extent that they would virtually collapse and I was certainly way off with that.  They have been bruised by Brexit and with pressure from some of the 27 I believe they will have to do some re-thinking of EU policies but they ain't going to fold any time soon.

 

What we have now is the worst scenario of all.  A seriously bad deal that let's down remainers and leavers alike, which we are told is the only deal on the table. A country bitterly divided and a shower of complete inadequate fools in charge of the country.  Sad times in Blighty.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

Over the months and now years of chewing the fat over Brexit  many predictions have been made by both camps.  "They need us more than we need them" and "they will do a deal at the last moment" look like being somewhat off the mark.  I thought that leaving would probably weaken the EU to such an extent that they would virtually collapse and I was certainly way off with that.  They have been bruised by Brexit and with pressure from some of the 27 I believe they will have to do some re-thinking of EU policies but they ain't going to fold any time soon.

 

What we have now is the worst scenario of all.  A seriously bad deal that let's down remainers and leavers alike, which we are told is the only deal on the table. A country bitterly divided and a shower of complete inadequate fools in charge of the country.  Sad times in Blighty.

 

 

My prediction from the start was that the U.K. would wind up with a deal that in exchange for access to the EU markets the U.K. will be subject to EU laws/Regulations ( with no say in those laws and regulations) and the U.K. will pay large annual subscriptions to the EU.

 

The post Brexit period will be marked by the U.K. being ‘raped’ by the US in a US/U.K. trade deal.

 

Top of the US hunting list, the NHS and U.K. farming.

 

Enjoy.....[edit]...<deleted>

[anon676545345]

Well one thing this referendum has shown is how utterly stupid people are. Two years of arguing over the result of a ‘referendum’ who’s result had been decided in 2002 during a conservative think tank in the US. 

 

The UK will leave in name only and be used as a bridge between the EU and NAFTA. Do as much shouting as you want your votes didn’t count, never did never will. 

[foxboy]

I thought the Brexit camp won the referendum....? Why does it not feel like it with this 'best possible deal' ??

[the guest]

I just hope you're not holding onto UK pounds, if this goes belly-up, expect the currency to take a huge nosedive if the vote goes against the deal on 12th December.

[bkkcanuck8]

9 hours ago, vogie said:

Great take on democracy, I use similar democracy in my kitchen, only Thais can do do the washing up. The reasoning is they are smaller than me, therefore nearer the sink and less likely to injure their back when bending over.

Well, did I not hear there were some Britons that were ineligible to vote because they took advantage of the free movements clause for too long?  Basically, those that were to be most affected were excluded?  Yes, restricting such a future affecting change in relationship should not be restricted ... period.  (not that I support overturning the prior referendum because of it though).  I do think that there should be another referendum on the final deal... it is definitely not what many voted for or against... 

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, the guest said:

I just hope you're not holding onto UK pounds, if this goes belly-up, expect the currency to take a huge nosedive if the vote goes against the deal on 12th December.

If I had to gamble I would wait until after May's deal is rejected and then the pound will probably fall quite a bit and then buy sterling.  That is if you don't believe that we well end up with a no-deal.  If Brexit is scrapped or the vote goes back to the people then the pound will soar.  I know it's a gamble but I think I might have a modest punt at that.

[Baerboxer]

17 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...There is no Plan B," said Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte. "If anyone thinks in the United Kingdom that by voting No something better would come out of it, they are wrong."

The only Plan B was preparing a possible no-deal scenario in which Britain crashes out on March 29 into legal limbo, roiling Europe's economy, a senior EU official said..."

 

I suspect that the above is correct; the only choices now are this deal and a 'Hard' Brexit, neither of which seem like a good idea. Unfortunately, the UK is now in a position where it needs to choose which is the proverbial 'least worst' option.

 

I look at the whole situation with regret. Try as I might, I can't imagine any future where the UK is 'larger', more 'powerful' or more 'influential', rather I see a future where the UK is smaller, weaker and diminished.

 

I am not sure what else to say; for those who felt that the UK had to leave the EU, I sincerely hope that you still feel it was worth it a few years down the road.

 

 

 

Macron is correct when he says that Brexit showed that the EU needed reform.

 

Only Britain should have stayed part of the EU and helped lead and shape that reform. 

 

Although you have to laugh when he adds that Paris will hold anyone to EU rules and regulations when France have been one of the biggest cheats in the EU!

[Chelseafan]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Macron is correct when he says that Brexit showed that the EU needed reform.

 

Only Britain should have stayed part of the EU and helped lead and shape that reform. 

 

Although you have to laugh when he adds that Paris will hold anyone to EU rules and regulations when France have been one of the biggest cheats in the EU!

We're in the EU now and have very little say on how the EU is shaped.

 

[brucec64]

13 hours ago, vogie said:

It said on the news dick that if the deal is voted down that there will be another vote on it, it would not surprise me if it was passed on the second vote with Mrs May standing on the steps of parliament waving her agreement and chanting deal in our time.



So why can Parliament keep voting until they get the result they want, but a second referendum is not possible?

[bkkcanuck8]

1 hour ago, Chelseafan said:

We're in the EU now and have very little say on how the EU is shaped.

 

No, the UK has been one foot in one foot out forever -- that position tends to lead to not being taken as seriously.  If the UK jumped in with both feet but with a negotiated position to fix for some regulatory reform... they would be taken more seriously.  The parliamentary reform has never been pushed by any EU government because if it were democratically reformed -- the local regional/state governments fear they would lose power to the new federal state.  This self-interested fear has restricted the push to do parliamentary reform.

[Chomper Higgot]

16 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Much appreciate the link.

 

Politicians really do believe that the electorate is entirely stupid ☹️.

The Brexit referendum result gave them good cause to form that opinion.

[Mike Teavee]

8 hours ago, dunroaming said:

If I had to gamble I would wait until after May's deal is rejected and then the pound will probably fall quite a bit and then buy sterling.  That is if you don't believe that we well end up with a no-deal.  If Brexit is scrapped or the vote goes back to the people then the pound will soar.  I know it's a gamble but I think I might have a modest punt at that.

I agree so have opened up a Sterling account alongside my normal account so I can get exposure to GBP without any transaction costs (Rate is usually OK, though when sterling takes a big hit it can be "slow" to reflect)

 

NB I work in Singapore so have done this with CItibank here but I do know that Bangkok Bank will give you a GBP account if you wanted to do the same in Thailand.

 

[vogie]

5 hours ago, brucec64 said:

So why can Parliament keep voting until they get the result they want, but a second referendum is not possible?

A second referendum is possible, but neither main party have showed any interest in having one, you might get a loose cannon like Kier Starmer wanting one, but generally no. The only party that advocates another referendum is the LibDems and looked what happened to them in the General Election.

[stephenterry]

As one poster wrote, Brexit is a folly. Never a truer statement, and no government could ever turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. May's deal is a botched up version of honouring the referendum result, but it's a hell of a better deal than no deal, which parliament would never approve, because it would ruin the economy and the pound.  Of course, the best deal would have been to stay in the EU where the UK could have been able to champion reform. Now, too much water has passed under the bridge for that to be a realistic option. 

[Chelseafan]

8 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

No, the UK has been one foot in one foot out forever -- that position tends to lead to not being taken as seriously.  If the UK jumped in with both feet but with a negotiated position to fix for some regulatory reform... they would be taken more seriously.  The parliamentary reform has never been pushed by any EU government because if it were democratically reformed -- the local regional/state governments fear they would lose power to the new federal state.  This self-interested fear has restricted the push to do parliamentary reform.

The UK always had an overriding Veto which gave it a position of strength, now many decisions are made by a majority.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Chelseafan

[dunroaming]

4 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

The UK always had an overriding Veto which gave it a position of strength, now many decisions are made by a majority.

The UK was instrumental in much of the EU's evolvement over the years while rejecting the bits it didn't like such as Shenzhen and the eurozone. They were never a "victim".

[KiChakayan]

50 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

The UK was instrumental in much of the EU's evolvement over the years while rejecting the bits it didn't like such as Shenzhen and the eurozone. They were never a "victim".

What could you expect from wingeing Poms? Now those who got their "Brexit" are still at it...

[dunroaming]

18 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

What could you expect from wingeing Poms? Now those who got their "Brexit" are still at it...

Well speaking as a whinging Pom, we didn't all vote for Brexit.  And speaking as a European I shall be very unhappy when it happens!

[Chelseafan]

4 hours ago, dunroaming said:

The UK was instrumental in much of the EU's evolvement over the years while rejecting the bits it didn't like such as Shenzhen and the eurozone. They were never a "victim".

I never said we were.