Cabbage pesticide level in Thailand ? Is this vegetable more or less poisoned ?

[pehice]

hello, anybody growing cabbage ? do you know if this is a vegetable that needs lots of pesticides ? or it quite safe to eat ?

 

 

Thank you.

[KittenKong]

If you are worried about pesticides and other chemicals then I would suggest that SE Asia should be near the bottom of your list of suitable countries to live in.

 

Besides which a lot of veg here seems to come from China, which is probably even worse.

[drtreelove]

Any leafy greens will be vulnerable to chewing and sucking insect pest infestation and therefore require protection from pests.  The form of protection varies with the grower, from old school chemical farming to organic and less toxic alternatives.  You can seek out farmers markets and talk directly to growers about methods and materials, and you can buy "hygienic" and "organic" even in major supermarkets, with better chances of getting clean and healthy food.  If you buy without scrutiny in open market places you have more chance of getting toxic pesticide residues as well as other contaminants from roadside pollution etc.  Washing your food well to prep for cooking will cut down on exposure considerably. 

 

Harsh chemical insecticides of the older generation are common, like organo phosphates and carbamates.  But even some chemical growers in the know use less toxic newer generation alternative pesticides like pyrethroids and neonicotinoids. But these too, even though they are less toxic for mammals, have environmental concerns.  So the growers that you want to seek out for your food source, are those who know and use organic program compatible bio-pesticides that are non-toxic and biodegradable.  Few organic growers know and practice "high-nutrient-density" soil fertility management and integrated pest management, but there are some around and that is the ultimate food source.  

[drtreelove]

Bangkok Farmers Market operates weekly at rotating locations. 

http://www.bkkfm.org/

 

Chiang Mai Organic Farmers Market: 

[owl sees all]

To be honest, after farming in Isaan for the last 10 years I'm not sure what you could safely eat unless you were sure of its source.

 

Farmers up here are pesticide, fungicide and chemical fertilizer crazy. Bio-alternatives have not made any significant headway in Isaan; as yet.

 

The thing is that, the chemicals, that are spread everywhere, eat into the farmer's profit big time. Thais seem reluctant to listen to new ideas or change their ways and practices.

 

 

[cooked]

I gave up trying to grow cabbages , melons and the like when I saw the stunted, grotesque results when I didn't treat with pesticides. (I may try again). I now buy in the markets or supermarkets, and am hoping that the good stuff in the vegetables will help my body to fight off the effects of the chemicals and heavy metals they most likely contain.

I don't plan on living for ever although that has worked up to now, and at the age of 70 I assume that whatever I'm going to die of has already irrevocably set up its own agenda.

Switzerland could afford to introduce organic foods into the market long ago and I have seen with my own eyes how these farmers were using chemicals ... and not "organic resources"..at night. So I'm not going to spend a premium here in Thailand for so called organic vegetables.

[drtreelove]

2 hours ago, owl sees all said:

To be honest, after farming in Isaan for the last 10 years I'm not sure what you could safely eat unless you were sure of its source.

 

Farmers up here are pesticide, fungicide and chemical fertilizer crazy. Bio-alternatives have not made any significant headway in Isaan; as yet.

 

The thing is that, the chemicals, that are spread everywhere, eat into the farmer's profit big time. Thais seem reluctant to listen to new ideas or change their ways and practices.

 

 

I understand the negative viewpoint; it is surely a reality and matter of concern, if that's as far as you can see. 

 

But there are good things going on and growers who care and know and are trying to do the right thing.  I recently visited a 120 rai organic farm in Chiang Mai province and saw real soil building (up to 5% sustained soil organic matter content) and chemical pesticide free, profitable production.  And there are many more if you seek them out. There are growers from Issan on this forum who you shouldn't place in that dim context. 

 

Another member recently posted about a successful program he manages to reverse and revive HLB (citrus greening) disease infected citrus trees with a comprehensive organic program. 

 

CLW's masters degree project may become a benchmark for organic methods and materials for Thai vegetable growers. 

 

It's always best and most dependable to grow your own if you have the land and resources.  There is plenty of information available.  It's the reason that this sub-forum was formed almost 10 years ago, to share information on organic and small scale farming/gardening.  Let's keep it positive, pass the word, and keep it growing!  

UN Tropical Organics.pdf

[grollies]

1 hour ago, drtreelove said:

I understand the negative viewpoint; it is surely a reality and matter of concern, if that's as far as you can see. 

 

But there are good things going on and growers who care and know and are trying to do the right thing.  I recently visited a 120 rai organic farm in Chiang Mai province and saw real soil building (up to 5% sustained soil organic matter content) and chemical pesticide free, profitable production.  And there are many more if you seek them out. There are growers from Issan on this forum who you shouldn't place in that dim context. 

 

Another member recently posted about a successful program he manages to reverse and revive HLB (citrus greening) disease infected citrus trees with a comprehensive organic program. 

 

CLW's masters degree project may become a benchmark for organic methods and materials for Thai vegetable growers. 

 

It's always best and most dependable to grow your own if you have the land and resources.  There is plenty of information available.  It's the reason that this sub-forum was formed almost 10 years ago, to share information on organic and small scale farming/gardening.  Let's keep it positive, pass the word, and keep it growing!  

UN Tropical Organics.pdf

Have you got a link to the member posting about HLB please.

[drtreelove]

4 hours ago, grollies said:

Have you got a link to the member posting about HLB please.

It may have been only in his PM to me and resulting email conversation.  I'll send you that contact info. 

It was the first I'd heard of a successful "curative" program, with 15 years of field-trials in China, before and after photos to back it up.  There was no peer reviewed science available but that is not necessary to get my attention.  The focus on moving away from soil biology destruction from harsh chemical imputs, with comprehensive soil building work and IPM methods sounded believable to me. 

 

I don't believe the claims of HLB cure with stem injection of anti-biotics.  Maybe temporary suppression, but not long term cure, and surely not affordable to do continued repeated treatments. There will be serious side-effects from tissue necrosis associated with repeated injection sites. 

 

Trying to cure advanced plant pest and disease conditions is always a challenge. Prevention of course is the best way to go. In the case of HLB that means never letting an active psyllid vector infestation and bacterial infection get started.  I have suggestions for a comprehensive preventive organic program if you are interested.  Don  

[grollies]

19 minutes ago, drtreelove said:

It may have been only in his PM to me and resulting email conversation.  I'll send you that contact info. 

It was the first I'd heard of a successful "curative" program, with 15 years of field-trials in China, before and after photos to back it up.  There was no peer reviewed science available but that is not necessary to get my attention.  The focus on moving away from soil biology destruction from harsh chemical imputs, with comprehensive soil building work and IPM methods sounded believable to me. 

 

I don't believe the claims of HLB cure with stem injection of anti-biotics.  Maybe temporary suppression, but not long term cure, and surely not affordable to do continued repeated treatments. There will be serious side-effects from tissue necrosis associated with repeated injection sites. 

 

Trying to cure advanced plant pest and disease conditions is always a challenge. Prevention of course is the best way to go. In the case of HLB that means never letting an active psyllid vector infestation and bacterial infection get started.  I have suggestions for a comprehensive preventive organic program if you are interested.  Don  

I'd be very interested in organic prevention measures. I've had some success clearing my citrus of canker and gummosis and I think there is some HLB around too. TIT and we are subject to most disease and pests, my take is that it's best to try and live with it and improve tree health to give them a chance to fight off disease. Pests have been a long battle but banning chemical pesticides has resulted in more predators like dragonfly, lizards and preying mantis around the place.

[fruitman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pest-repelling_plants

 

Myself i'm testing peppermint to repel mosquito's..so far it works pretty good but i'm still testing it. I just have some plants near me outside. Also basil and rosemary.

 

For cabbage there are good other companion plants...catnip and so.

 

Don't know if the farmers in Isan have ever tried it but in the West it's used a lot to grow cabbages.

[vinegarbase]

On 11/28/2018 at 6:00 PM, grollies said:

I'd be very interested in organic prevention measures.

Neem!

 

The Neem tree grows in Thailand. Find one and strip a bunch of leaves. Pound and grind the leaves in a mortar and pestle like they use for making somdam and then soak it in hot water. Strain the water and put it in a backpack or hand sprayer depending on how much you need and spray it on anything you need to keep pests away from. 

[grollies]

On 12/5/2018 at 10:02 PM, vinegarbase said:

Neem!

 

The Neem tree grows in Thailand. Find one and strip a bunch of leaves. Pound and grind the leaves in a mortar and pestle like they use for making somdam and then soak it in hot water. Strain the water and put it in a backpack or hand sprayer depending on how much you need and spray it on anything you need to keep pests away from. 

Yep, I do neem already. Managed to find a supplier. 

[nervona81732]

Grollies

22 hours ago, grollies said:

Yep, I do neem already. Managed to find a supplier. 

I live in Issan. Could I get a link or contact number for your supplier of NEEM?

[NotYourBusiness]

1 hour ago, nervona81732 said:

Grollies

I live in Issan. Could I get a link or contact number for your supplier of NEEM?

Until about 2 years ago, I would see bottles of Neem concentrate in the garden aisle of larger Tesco or Big C. Sadly these areas of the store are slowly disappearing.

 

I see one listing on NanaGarden.com (Thai language)

 

https://www.nanagarden.com/search/neem

 

Also, insect pests are especially bad during the dry season, as nothing else is growing except your nice green juicy vegetables. Kaolin clay diluted in water and sprayed on leaves leaves a white film which both protects from heat stress and discourages insect pests and is totally benign. The kaolin is a fine but rugged abrasive and insects will stay away. Drip irrigation saves water and works best to keep the kaolin film on the leaves.

 

https://plantcaretoday.com/kaolin-clay.html

 

[connda]

Soak your vegetables and fruits in a baking soda and water solution for 15 minutes, wash, and then prepare.  Baking soda neutralizes a number of pesticides. 

[l4ml4m]

1 hour ago, connda said:

Soak your vegetables and fruits in a baking soda and water solution for 15 minutes, wash, and then prepare.  Baking soda neutralizes a number of pesticides. 

 

Correct, this is the BS that is repeated everywhere, but nobody has been able to explain me how it will break pesticide that is inside the fruits and vegetables. So it is clearly useless and ridiculous to believe that anything that one will do to clean fruits and vegs will work.

 

 

[rickudon]

I grow organically in Isaan during the cold/dry season. Not commercially, mainly for home use. I do not get much pest damage in the dry season (at least until end of January). Small seedlings do die off but once a reasonable size 90% will survive. Only pests i see on cabbages are snails and grasshoppers, no or very few caterpillars. Sometimes aphids can be a problem on some crops.

 

The main issue is some crops just struggle to survive, like most cucurbits suffer from small orange beetles which totally destroy the fruit and eventually the whole plant. The heat and sun also are an issue for some crops. This winter is too warm and i am expecting trouble. Most types of cabbages do well if the temperature stays under 32 C, just stop growing if hotter.  You do find some veg are a bit stunted, but i think the heat is the issue. You just experiment and find what will grow in your garden (although results vary from year to year, and season to season). 

 

I might have more success if i used chemicals, but they are expensive and i will not use them on principal.

[uffe123]

There isn't a single vegetable in Thailand that isn't sprayed with pesticide such as glyphosate, and other pesticides which are banned in Europe. Farmers are pesticide crazy. My cousin a farmer all his life just died from the affect of spraying pesticide

Glyphocate is toxic to human DNA even when diluted to concentrations 450-fold lower than used in agricultural applications.This effect could not have been anticipated from the known toxicological effects of glyphosate alone. The likely explanation is that the surfactant polyoxyethyleneamine within glyphocate dramatically enhances the absorption of into exposed human cells and tissue.

[drtreelove]

On 12/26/2018 at 7:21 PM, l4ml4m said:

 

Correct, this is the BS that is repeated everywhere, but nobody has been able to explain me how it will break pesticide that is inside the fruits and vegetables. So it is clearly useless and ridiculous to believe that anything that one will do to clean fruits and vegs will work.

 

 

Good point.  Washing to reduce pesticide contamination is only good for superficial contact sprays on the leaf or fruit surface and useless for systemic pesticides. 

[anon7854]

Quote

More than 110 species of natural enemies including insects predators, parasitic insects and pathogens associated with economic insect pests of sugarcane, cassava, corn, soybean and cotton were recorded. These natural enemies are considerable regulation factors for the control the population of these insect pests in term of natural biological control agents. Among these natural enemies, the pentatomid predator, E. furcellata; the hymenopterous paresites, T. chirotreae and C. flavipes; the green muscadine fungus, M. anisopliae and the green lacewings: P. ramburi and M. basalis have been utilized for augmentative biological control of many species of lepidopterous pest, sugarcane moth borers complex, sugarcane longhorn stem borer and the cassava mealybugs complex. The results from the utilization of these natural enemies gave most satisfaction control every area applied

 

People just need to be smarter than pests and not forget why they have a big brain in their skull. Spraying insecticides is probably the most retarded thing to do since it kills everyone (you included) Nature has everything under control except we're retarded and think we're gods ... in reality we have no clue.

[drtreelove]

10 hours ago, anon7854 said:

 

People just need to be smarter than pests and not forget why they have a big brain in their skull. Spraying insecticides is probably the most retarded thing to do since it kills everyone (you included) Nature has everything under control except we're retarded and think we're gods ... in reality we have no clue.

I disagree. This theory IMO is based on a very limited knowledge and view of what term "pesticides" means.  There are natural pest predators and parasitoids, biological controls and botanical pest repellents that don't kill anything by chemical action as you imply, but are in fact classified as "pesticides".  Used preventively, as a component in an integrated plant management program, including soil fertiliity and water management, demonstrate intelligent cooperation with natural systems.  

 

There is a whole new movement and new generation of products and progressive environmentally conscious thinking that many folks on the over-reactive bandwagon of negativity toward old school pesticide use are missing out on.  Even some of the big ag chemical companies are on to a tremendous amount of R&D on bio-pesticides and integrated, intelligent plant management.