Copy shop next to Jomtien IO is "certifying" Income documents

[NoshowJones]

On 11/28/2018 at 11:02 AM, mercman24 said:

i see there is even a farang guy advertising his business, *not got 800,000 ? no problem * i repeat i was offered an OFFICIAL  stamp for 16,000 baht 3 weeks ago by the immigration officer at the desk, when i went for my 90 day

What do you mean an OFFICIAL stamp? Is this in place of not having to have 800.000 Baht in your'e bank account.

We all know about the corruption here, and I am not condoning or condemning it.

If you can use it to your'e advantage then why not?

This IO at the desk was not working alone, his bosses will be in on it too.

[NoshowJones]

On 11/28/2018 at 11:58 AM, Dmaxdan said:

Is Big Joke aware of this. He is the one to ask if this is legit or not. Anyone got his number?

Do you think Big Joke is going to be able to stop certain income streams all over Thailand?

[Psychic]

13 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

THAILAND CRIMINAL CODE

Section 267. Lying to Government Official

 

Whoever causes an official in the execution of their duty to make any false entry in the public or official document for the aims to be used as evidence, shall be imprisoned not more of three years or fined not more of six thousand Baht, or both.

Guess you could pay an agent to get the 6000 baht option.

????

[JLCrab]

10 minutes ago, Psychic said:

Guess you could pay an agent to get the 6000 baht option

That presumes they didn't get him first.

[JackThompson]

36 minutes ago, john smith said:

Ignoring the legality or possibly lack of legality that this thread is discussing do those posting really not know that police and immigration monitor sites such as this? I believe that loose lips sink ships is an appropriate phrase.

There are public-ads offering "money free extensions" - so nothing is being revealed.  Given the preferential treatment of agent-submitted applications, this appears to be what Immigration prefer to see, vs honest-applicants.  But ...

 

52 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Sacrificial sheep are not unknown.

That's the greatest risk.

 

44 minutes ago, sgoodes said:

I was given a price of 38k to do it from a certain visa agent which I wont name as it's all new to me and I wouldnt intentionally damage anyone's rep

You would be getting a "Non-O" stamp plus a 1-year extension based on retirement (guessing retirement - over 50 and not married to a Thai?). 

 

I think the lower price you heard about was just for the 1-year retirement-extension.  In recent threads 13K was quoted for the 1-year part.  Another 10K+ or so for the Non-O stamp would fit.

[NoshowJones]

On 11/28/2018 at 2:16 PM, Lacessit said:

Some are also making it sound as if it as easy as shelling peas. Take nothing for granted here, haven't you learned that yet?

How true, no way will I ever put 800.000 or 400.000 in a Thai bank, being a motorcyclist who enjoys road trips, I will get the ME  visa based on marriage to a Thai the usual way at Savakkhanet, it lasts for up to 15 months.

[thailand49]

9 hours ago, balo said:

I don't believe this information at all. I have used that copyshop many times , to do copies. Never seen anyone certifying documents. 

 

 

You got to be living in fantasy land!  Everyone thinks it is got to be certified like a piece of paper the Embassy gives out!  Does anyone understand what corruption, or even how a crime is committed?  You don't leave a paper trail! it is slip and slide verbal! 

For years whenever I go to Jomtien I'm pretty much the first one outside in line, waiting I see the same thai girl and guy go in all the time like they weren't bearing gifts, they head over to desk 6, even before they are open the guy is there stamping and stamping but I guess all the straight never break the law poster think he is backlogged or just the greatest TO ever starting early his shift!

You want anything need anything go to the guy with the funny haircut desk #2 anyone ever wonder why he just sits? Everyone in that office is related in some form. The ones in uniforms are officially hired everyone else is contracted out and blood is thicker than water no one is going to snitch?

[yodsak]

1 hour ago, sgoodes said:

I'm in the process of starting the ball rolling converting a METV to Non O "A" and I was given a price of 38k to do it from a certain visa agent which I wont name as it's all new to me and I wouldnt intentionally damage anyone's rep.

I thought it was a bit steep but then I thought it was the going rate as there's the 800k that they will assist with. I have the money plus approx 275k per month income but I'm reluctant to have that money sitting in my K Bank account so they'll sort that and maybe next year I'll do it.

I also got told by a bloke that there's a small place opposite Sweethearts that will do the same for around 14k.

It's all a bit confusing as I always leant towards if sounds too cheap then it may be dodgier than the dearer ones.

Who knows. More homework for me I guess.

go to the one opposite sweethearts,  cheap ,efficient and well established

[marcusarelus]

23 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

How true, no way will I ever put 800.000 or 400.000 in a Thai bank, being a motorcyclist who enjoys road trips, I will get the ME  visa based on marriage to a Thai the usual way at Savakkhanet, it lasts for up to 15 months.

I can understand that.  Had you put money in a Thai bank in 2015 it was worth 55 baht and today it is worth 42 baht. 

 

You are way too smart for that.  I can see. 

 

Keep your money in a Brit bank. 

[cyberfarang]

9 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

You got to be living in fantasy land!  Everyone thinks it is got to be certified like a piece of paper the Embassy gives out!  Does anyone understand what corruption, or even how a crime is committed?  You don't leave a paper trail! it is slip and slide verbal! 

For years whenever I go to Jomtien I'm pretty much the first one outside in line, waiting I see the same thai girl and guy go in all the time like they weren't bearing gifts, they head over to desk 6, even before they are open the guy is there stamping and stamping but I guess all the straight never break the law poster think he is backlogged or just the greatest TO ever starting early his shift!

You want anything need anything go to the guy with the funny haircut desk #2 anyone ever wonder why he just sits? Everyone in that office is related in some form. The ones in uniforms are officially hired everyone else is contracted out and blood is thicker than water no one is going to snitch?

I`m saying this whole story is fantasy unless someone else has used this so-called service and can confirm this is true. Otherwise I`m still calling bull on this.

[tropo]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

How true, no way will I ever put 800.000 or 400.000 in a Thai bank, being a motorcyclist who enjoys road trips, I will get the ME  visa based on marriage to a Thai the usual way at Savakkhanet, it lasts for up to 15 months.

I can understand that.  Had you put money in a Thai bank in 2015 it was worth 55 baht and today it is worth 42 baht. 

 

You are way too smart for that.  I can see. 

 

Keep your money in a Brit bank. 

That's a meaningless comparison. I'm sure most who deposited 800/400k in 2015 would have used it up in a year and sent more in 2016, 2017 and 2018... all at different exchange rates. Either way, when it comes to exchange rates it's more about being lucky than being smart.

[Kalasin Jo]

On 11/28/2018 at 5:33 AM, dcnx said:

Exactly. Foreigners love to call things shady or unethical here, but it’s just how they do business.

 

I read so many posts of guys struggling with their visa or whatever government thing they are dealing with and it’s always because they are trying to do things the proper way.

 

News flash, look around you, NOTHING is done the proper way here. Thais know this and and act accordingly. But for whatever reason many foreigners draw the line and refuse to participate in doing things the Thai way, while at the same time doing everything they can do be as Thai as possible.

 

Thais take short cuts. They bribe people. They cheat every chance they get. It’s the glue that holds this broken society together. The sooner people understand this and play their game by their rules, the easier their life will become. Or do it the hard way and swim upstream for the rest of your life. Up to you.

Indeed. My Thai wife recently sold some land. At the Land Office an official raised problem after problem, each was dealt with until it came to : your ID photo not look like you, photo have more pale skin. Not you, no can do. At this point my wife asked so how much do you want to make this problem go away? 7k paid and all smiles again, sale registered. Later my wife said, this is normal. They pick on someone and make problems until you cough up some extra money, in cash of course, no receipt.

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, tropo said:

That's a meaningless comparison. I'm sure most who deposited 800/400k in 2015 would have used it up in a year and sent more in 2016, 2017 and 2018... all at different exchange rates. Either way, when it comes to exchange rates it's more about being lucky than being smart.

Not true at all.  An expat who arrived in 2015 and put 3 million in a Thai bank instead of a UK bank would have been been rewarded with an exchange rate of 55 baht to the pound.  One who arrived and used the income letter method and left his money in a UK bank would have lost the difference between 55 then and 42 now.  For example I moved all my money out of the West around 2004.  My trust in Thai banks has been handsomely rewarded. 

[Bill Miller]

On 11/28/2018 at 11:02 AM, mercman24 said:

i see there is even a farang guy advertising his business, *not got 800,000 ? no problem * i repeat i was offered an OFFICIAL  stamp for 16,000 baht 3 weeks ago by the immigration officer at the desk, when i went for my 90 day

Same deal I was offered two years ago.
So much for "Big Joke" and his pledge to end corruption in the TI, eh?

[tropo]

1 hour ago, cyberfarang said:

I`m saying this whole story is fantasy unless someone else has used this so-called service and can confirm this is true. Otherwise I`m still calling bull on this.

There are agents all over town doing exactly the same thing. It's all about the IO's that hold the rubber stamps. Why wouldn't they put agents at the most convenient location of all where they will get the most business. I would put money down the information is legit.

 

There was a report earlier on this thread by someone who was worried about the falling exchange rate and not being able to make the 65k threshold. An IO at the retirement desk #6 told him, "don't worry - we can fix that for 15k" (or words to that effect) ... and that was 4 years ago. There's nothing new going on here.

[Pattaya46]

9 minutes ago, tropo said:

There are agents all over town doing exactly the same thing. It's all about the IO's that hold the rubber stamps. //

Seems ridiculous. Why would they offer a service that nobody needs ??

Also this would kill their nice no-400/800k extension business.

I will not believe this story before I see one of these letters here...

Edited November 29, 2018 by Pattaya46

[jesimps]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

I can understand that.  Had you put money in a Thai bank in 2015 it was worth 55 baht and today it is worth 42 baht. 

 

You are way too smart for that.  I can see. 

 

Keep your money in a Brit bank. 

Your post is ok as long as you have a crystal ball, however, nobody knows which way the forex market is going to move, which is why very few of us want to send 800,000 equivalent over here. There are also many other reasons, for example I'd like to leave some money to my kids and grandchildren at home which I'll feel happier about if it's in a UK bank. As things stand, I'm making contingency plans. Due to the present circumstances re the monthly income thing, where people are stuck between a rock and a hard place, I wouldn't presume to judge anyone for taking the agent route. 

[tropo]

4 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Seems ridiculous. Why would they offer a service that nobody needs ??

I will not believe this story before I see one of these letters here...

The service is about facilitating retirement extensions. The certification of income letters was probably just a misunderstanding.

[Psychic]

1 minute ago, tropo said:

The service is about facilitating retirement extensions. The certification of income letters was probably just a misunderstanding.

What exactly do you mean by "facilitating retirement extensions"?

 

With proper paperwork, including income letters from every embassy except Denmark these are among the easiest extensions available.

 

Usually can be done on the same day.

 

I believe most embassies require you to apply personally for an income letter so I don't understand what kind of " facilitation" they offer.

 

Is there some method of income verification that agents are privy to that is permitted under Thai law that we don't know about?

 

I believe a bank will only give me a balance statement on my account, not a third party.

 

I'm confused about how these agents "facilitate" extension applications.

 

Can you please explain the service they provide that demands the payment of one or two times the usual Thai monthly salary?

 

I would like to get the wife a job there if she meets their qualifications.

[marcusarelus]

28 minutes ago, tropo said:

All meaningless. We're talking about 800k for retirement extensions, and you're suggesting someone who didn't move the money (3 million) over in 2015 is not smart due to your hindsight on what happened to the currency pair in the last 3 years. The guy that moved 3 million, or 20 million, is just taking a risk, and as it happened would have won in this case. You're obviously more of a gambler than a currency trader... or you have a very good crystal ball to look into.

It is obvious that Thai banks are safe by looking at history of Thailand since 1997.  That was my point.  Those who are falling back on the crutch of not trusting Thai banks because they really can't raise a small amount to put in the bank are thinking we are all stupid.  Not only are Thai banks safe but it was obvious to most after the problems on 1997 that the government moves had stabilized the currency and it was going nowhere but up relative the pound.  Did not take a rocket scientist to see what Brexit was going to do. 

[Ctkong]

On 11/28/2018 at 12:27 PM, KhunFred said:

The copy shop is OWNED by Immigration personnel. That is almost common knowledge. They drove several other shops out of the business of doing copies for Immigration. The continued pretense that everything done here is "legitimate", almost beggars belief. One shady door closes, another shady door opens. The magic of "tea money".

Many authorities use proxies to make money. Happened all over asean countries. By using their ‘recommened’ companies for various licensing, progress move so much faster. For example, those in public security would set up a security guard business by proxy. Using their services would ensure perhaps a smoother insurance claim should any untoward incident happened.  

[JackThompson]

 

1 hour ago, Psychic said:

Is there some method of income verification that agents are privy to that is permitted under Thai law that we don't know about?

Yes, it is called a "loan".  If not from an agent, you need to borrow it for 2 or 3 months (depending on marriage, retirement 1st-time or subsequent).

 

1 hour ago, Psychic said:

I believe a bank will only give me a balance statement on my account, not a third party.

The bank-letter is for the applicant's account - valid at the time it is generated.

 

1 hour ago, Psychic said:

I'm confused about how these agents "facilitate" extension applications. 

According to reports of those who have received agent-facilitated extensions, they transfer the money into the account, get a valid bank letter based on the current-balance, then transfer the money back to their own account.

 

1 hour ago, Psychic said:

Can you please explain the service they provide that demands the payment of one or two times the usual Thai monthly salary?

A higher-ranking IO must "waive the seasoning," - which is their legal power to do.  One can assume some form of illegal-compensation is involved - but hard to prove it, when no one involved would benefit from testifying to that effect. 

 

Given the ads for "no money extensions" are public, it would seem that those with supervisory power, who would be in a position to crack-down on this practice, has been cut-in on the money-flow.

 

1 hour ago, Psychic said:

I would like to get the wife a job there if she meets their qualifications.

If you mean immigration, that is purportedly a very expensive job to purchase, with a high ROI from the agent-money.

 

1 hour ago, Psychic said:

if you are capable of complying with Thai law what exactly is an agent offering you that demands the kind of money they are demanding?

In the current context, I (and many others) have an income which qualifies for a valid extension.  Our means of showing this to immigration is either going away or already gone.  An agent provides one way to get the extension which we cannot receive directly, because immigration is highly-unlikely to wade through documents from a foreign-country, which show that income.  What they will accept in the future remains to be seen, but agents may be the only way for many with incomes that meet the legal-standard to stay here.

 

BTW - I have more than a sufficient income to get an extension based on the law.  I currently use a Visa based on marriage (not extension), because I did not want to give an agent-money reward to the IOs who shafted me (and were rude to my wife).  I am only reporting on what happens via agents, based on multiple reports, which all tell the same basic story.

[JackThompson]

Quote

    1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

 

    If you can't afford 800k in Thai bank then most likely you haven't planned well.

...

    You can't afford that then zip off

We all know the story of fools and their money, but "Planning" is only part of the story, in the best of cases.  Moderately Good Luck in life over decades is the rest.  I was somewhat lucky, but have many friends who worked just as hard, saved everything they could, but were less lucky.  Others were much less industrious, but lucky - hence better off financially today.

 

It is best to stay humble about this sort of thing, IMO, even if one worked hard and saved to get where they are - because many others did the same, and it didn't work out as well for them.

Thank goodness for inexpensive places to live in the world, providing a decent standard-of-living at a relatively low cost, while helping the locals at the same time, with "moderate" spending - imported-money poured into the nation, at multiples of the locals' median-pay per-each of us. 

 

There is no reason that a lack of 800K to plop in a Thai bank should force them to leave - especially when they have the requisite income, moved here under the impression this was acceptable, but have now lost the embassy-letter they need to show it - due to no fault of their own.  This was not anything they could have known would occur.

[Psychic]

8 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

Yes, it is called a "loan".  If not from an agent, you need to borrow it for 2 or 3 months (depending on marriage, retirement 1st-time or subsequent).

 

The bank-letter is for the applicant's account - valid at the time it is generated.

 

According to reports of those who have received agent-facilitated extensions, they transfer the money into the account, get a valid bank letter based on the current-balance, then transfer the money back to their own account.

 

A higher-ranking IO must "waive the seasoning," - which is their legal power to do.  One can assume some form of illegal-compensation is involved - but hard to prove it, when no one involved would benefit from testifying to that effect. 

 

Given the ads for "no money extensions" are public, it would seem that those with supervisory power, who would be in a position to crack-down on this practice, has been cut-in on the money-flow.

 

If you mean immigration, that is purportedly a very expensive job to purchase, with a high ROI from the agent-money.

 

In the current context, I (and many others) have an income which qualifies for a valid extension.  Our means of showing this to immigration is either going away or already gone.  An agent provides one way to get the extension which we cannot receive directly, because immigration is highly-unlikely to wade through documents from a foreign-country, which show that income.  What they will accept in the future remains to be seen, but agents may be the only way for many with incomes that meet the legal-standard to stay here.

 

BTW - I have more than a sufficient income to get an extension based on the law.  I currently use a Visa based on marriage (not extension), because I did not want to give an agent-money reward to the IOs who shafted me (and were rude to my wife).  I am only reporting on what happens via agents, based on multiple reports, which all tell the same basic story.

Thanks, JT.

That whole post was meant as sarcastic since everyone knows exactly what "services" agents provide.

 

And they are all, essentially, illegal.

 

I understand that some people have no option but to go that route,

 

Some of them have, while being in full compliance are now faced with the ugly situation of having no legal way to prove that.

 

I am prescient and I would think if something came up before a Thai court that they were in full compliance and used an agent to "push" that through they might survive.

 

My major issue is deliberately falsifying to an agent, having the agent pay a monetary amount to a TI official in order to get an extension could lead to possible criminal charges.

 

Like if they pay 800K into a Thai bank and magically receive payment of 800K after the extension is granted.

 

It is not rocket science to figure that out. I have never availed myself of that kind of service.…but if a prosecutor got me under oath.

 

My point kind of was, do you want to ever put yourself in that situation.

 

I came here and apply the laws of the land meticulously ( OK sometime I cheat and don't wear underwear under my swimming shorts).

 

We legitimate people have enough problems without discussing how to "cheat" the system.

 

Maybe, as someone wrote, it's incurable. But most of us are trying to play by the rules, and I sometimes get pissed off with "hey, here's a new way to cheat".

 

 

[Psychic]

I'd like to add that those of you who have been screwed by your Embassies, most especially the Danes....I am sorry for you.

 

I know 99% are good actors who contribute more to the Thai economy than you will ever take out of it.

 

If you guys have to pay bribes to stay with your wives and children. 

 

Then good luck to you.

 

Just remember, when you are talking to your countrymen to mention how well you were treated.

 

Americans, Ozzies, Brits..

 

Tell your buddies how well Thailand has treated you.

 

Want to retire here?

 

No, no income not enough,...gotta plant $28K in a foreign bank for a couple of months.

 

Otherwise it's cool.

 

A beer costs how much????? A bottle of wine???

 

It's working guys.

 

All the hotels are empty.

 

Congratulations, you've killed the goose.

 

Now go after the expats.

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

A higher-ranking IO must "waive the seasoning," - which is their legal power to do.  One can assume some form of illegal-compensation is involved - but hard to prove it, when no one involved would benefit from testifying to that effect. 

Here is one of the major flaw of this system. It has been said several times on this forum that only a very high ranked IO has the power to waive the  seasoning, and these very high-ranked IOs are (mostly?) in Bangkok! Even the head of Immigration in Pattaya by example is not high enough to waive a seasoning...

Edited November 29, 2018 by Pattaya46

[tropo]

5 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

You have demonstrated a school boy attitude. Read your posts. Most poorly informed esp regarding exchange rate markets. As for I nick off to another forum, are you on a retirement visa? I am and for that there are various methods to comply with requirements. Have you suggested any. At very least , I did.

If you want to hear a schoolboy rant, re-read your own posts. Your offerings serve no purpose here. Enjoy those other threads. You can join the other "if you don't have 800k, then ****off" club and compare bank accounts and FX exchange knowledge. Probably most of you are just pretending to have money anyway. No one would be any the wiser here.

Edited November 29, 2018 by tropo

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, PunkRockerGuy said:

Not sure why people have so many problems with Imm

You said that twice, but the reality is different offices vary.

I don't have issues with the Jomtiem Office. Great service.

I hear Hua Hin are great too.

You extol Lopburi.

 

It seem from reading posts on TV Chiangmai are poor and want everyone to use agents.

I am told by friends further north that they have to produce copies of things not required for me, substantial numbers of them.

I read from an acquaintance further East of an IO who hates falangs and strives to mess them from pillar to post.

We hear of many who create their own local requirements.

 

Most of us have little choice but to do as we are told!

 

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, sgoodes said:

I'm in the process of starting the ball rolling converting a METV to Non O "A" and I was given a price of 38k to do it from a certain visa agent which I wont name as it's all new to me and I wouldnt intentionally damage anyone's rep.

I thought it was a bit steep but then I thought it was the going rate as there's the 800k that they will assist with. I have the money plus approx 275k per month income but I'm reluctant to have that money sitting in my K Bank account so they'll sort that and maybe next year I'll do it.

I also got told by a bloke that there's a small place opposite Sweethearts that will do the same for around 14k.

It's all a bit confusing as I always leant towards if sounds too cheap then it may be dodgier than the dearer ones.

Who knows. More homework for me I guess.

Doubt you can get a Non-Imm OA issued in Thailand, only possible from a Consulate in your home country. 

Presuming you mean Non-Imm-O conversion yes 38,000 baht is a lot of money!

There is nothing to worry about leaving 800k in a Thai bank account.

What 'Sweethearts' do you refer to, the GGB on WS has changed it's name, there is an MP/Bar on soi Pothole goes by that name and a beer bar on Buakhao just past the hospital where a safe got lifted 2 years ago. 

 

I kinda think there is something dodgy about having to pay 38,000 baht!

[BritTim]

7 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Even the head of Immigration in Pattaya by example is not high enough to waive a seasoning...

I do not think this is correct. I believe the head of each immigration office has the power to waive seasoning. What requires a very high rank is waiving financial proof altogether, which is why agent facilitated extensions never involve that.