Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[bomber]

56 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 Very interesting. Throughout these threads, I have on numerous occasions raised the question, of what would happen if we were to remain in  this Undemocratic Union.

And then for some unknown ???????????? reason, the remainers then go into silent mode, except for those many occasions, when they somehow manage to predict all sorts of doom and gloom, for when we take our sovereignty back.

 

sovereignty as you call it wont improve your life,prospects,standard of living,human rights,pension,benefits,wage,health or access to healthcare,roads,railways,your grand childrens education or their job prospects,you like me have never been affected by any EU law,there may be a handful of individuals out there who have but ive scoured the internet without finding any and never heard anyone anywhere moaning or being effected by them,But UK laws i hear more than enough of,this weeks special is landlords are not allowed try and find out the nationality of a tenant as it infringes their human rights,this is nowt to do with EU law its a made in Great Britain special edition,lets hope some uk landlord takes it to ECJ and gets it overturned along with a long list of others i could give them.

Edited March 8, 2019 by bomber

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

Worth watching, Tony Benn at his best again. "The people in favour of the EU has never had the guts to tell the people whats it all about"

Quality of the picture not too good, but the audio is ok.

 

 

Such wise words.  What a pity Mr Benn couldn't have hung on for a few more years to tell a few home truths to our treacherous MPs

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

You think that's scary?  Just look what is on the cards for the UK states we fail to break free from the shackles of an increasingly undemocratic and power-drunk European Union.

 

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/03/06/eu-chance-end-nationalist-nightmare/

"“The union envisioned by [the French president] is a Europe that can stand on its own two feet, in a world of great powers in which EU nations would not be able to protect their own interests and way of life by themselves,” he said.

Asserting that “nothing is eternal”, the Belgian politician stressed that, without a statist Brussels takeover — which would see Eurocrats create an EU army, seize control over national borders, migration and bloc-wide energy policy, and even “organise the internet in a European way” — a populist “nightmare will become reality”.

Such measures are “not just about blocking populists or nationalists but [are] also about breaking the current status quo and stagnation” that prevents EU officials from imposing top-down “reforms” on every member state, Verhofstadt admitted, dismissing belief that European federalism could be slowed, or that any aspect of national sovereignty could be restored as “stuck in the past”, and ideas which were on par with those of his right-wing “enemies”.

 

Yep, yet again the cat is truly let out of the bag. Why remainers cannot see this is beyond me. Well, apart from those remainers who agree with his vision of the future EU superstate. And I know some on here do. 

 

[bomber]

7 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Such wise words.  What a pity Mr Benn couldn't have hung on for a few more years to tell a few home truths to our treacherous MPs

a dinosaur of a politician,still living in the past,about as much use as corbyn,the state of that office man,what a mess????

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, bomber said:

iam quite sure if the UK wanted to jump ship at a later date it would be able to,leaving with the help in hand of another 1 or 2 nations would be much better proposition.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. As time passes and we become more entwined it becomes harder and harder to leave. Think about it. It would have been so much easier to leave pre-Maastricht.  And again before we were conned into allowing the Lisbon treaty to be signed. Those two treaties alone have made leaving is so problematic now.  And it will only get worse as more Lisbon treaty constitutional changes take effect after 2020. 

[bomber]

4 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

"“The union envisioned by [the French president] is a Europe that can stand on its own two feet, in a world of great powers in which EU nations would not be able to protect their own interests and way of life by themselves,” he said.

Asserting that “nothing is eternal”, the Belgian politician stressed that, without a statist Brussels takeover — which would see Eurocrats create an EU army, seize control over national borders, migration and bloc-wide energy policy, and even “organise the internet in a European way” — a populist “nightmare will become reality”.

Such measures are “not just about blocking populists or nationalists but [are] also about breaking the current status quo and stagnation” that prevents EU officials from imposing top-down “reforms” on every member state, Verhofstadt admitted, dismissing belief that European federalism could be slowed, or that any aspect of national sovereignty could be restored as “stuck in the past”, and ideas which were on par with those of his right-wing “enemies”.

 

Yep, yet again the cat is truly let out of the bag. Why remainers cannot see this is beyond me. Well, apart from those remainers who agree with his vision of the future EU superstate. And I know some on here do. 

 

organise the internet in a european way ???? seize borders,what borders? ???? project stupidity if your stupid enough to believe it,i dont know where you find this rubbish,thats worse than anything pro remain ive read anywhere,drag ya cat back in man its dark and cold tonight.

[CG1 Blue]

2 minutes ago, bomber said:

17 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

"“The union envisioned by [the French president] is a Europe that can stand on its own two feet, in a world of great powers in which EU nations would not be able to protect their own interests and way of life by themselves,” he said.

Asserting that “nothing is eternal”, the Belgian politician stressed that, without a statist Brussels takeover — which would see Eurocrats create an EU army, seize control over national borders, migration and bloc-wide energy policy, and even “organise the internet in a European way” — a populist “nightmare will become reality”.

Such measures are “not just about blocking populists or nationalists but [are] also about breaking the current status quo and stagnation” that prevents EU officials from imposing top-down “reforms” on every member state, Verhofstadt admitted, dismissing belief that European federalism could be slowed, or that any aspect of national sovereignty could be restored as “stuck in the past”, and ideas which were on par with those of his right-wing “enemies”.

 

Yep, yet again the cat is truly let out of the bag. Why remainers cannot see this is beyond me. Well, apart from those remainers who agree with his vision of the future EU superstate. And I know some on here do. 

 

organise the internet in a european way ???? seize borders,what borders? ???? project stupidity if your stupid enough to believe it,i dont know where you find this rubbish,thats worse than anything pro remain ive read anywhere,drag ya cat back in man its dark and cold tonight.

Errr...that was Guy Verhofstadt speaking, not me. I'll help you out - he's the former Belgian PM who was appointed lead negotiator for the EU. He is very outspoken with these views - it's no secret.  But as you're an expert on the EU I'm sure you know this already ????

 

[bomber]

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

I wouldn't be so sure about that. As time passes and we become more entwined it becomes harder and harder to leave. Think about it. It would have been so much easier to leave pre-Maastricht.  And again before we were conned into allowing the Lisbon treaty to be signed. Those two treaties alone have made leaving is so problematic now.  And it will only get worse as more Lisbon treaty constitutional changes take effect after 2020. 

with the state of the political parties in the UK at the moment the Lisbon treaty will be most welcome,the next GE and more so the one after will be a complete farce,could well be 4-6 parties taking over 10% of the vote with around 18-22% being the highest and as we have seen with brexit its going to be a joke watching them try and run the country,scary times ahead,brexit will leave its mark well after me,you and the motor industry have gone

[bomber]

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Errr...that was Guy Verhofstadt speaking, not me. I'll help you out - he's the former Belgian PM who was appointed lead negotiator for the EU. He is very outspoken with these views - it's no secret.  But as you're an expert on the EU I'm sure you know this already ????

 

so he is speaking about what he thinks another person "might" do,your correct he is outspoken,i wouldnt lose too much sleep over it,iam sure there are plenty of MPs in the EU who dont like everything about it but they know its better in than out,i never always liked whatever job i was doing but i always knew where the door was,but i prefered the benefits of work and money to the dole que,

[CG1 Blue]

5 minutes ago, bomber said:

with the state of the political parties in the UK at the moment the Lisbon treaty will be most welcome,the next GE and more so the one after will be a complete farce,could well be 4-6 parties taking over 10% of the vote with around 18-22% being the highest and as we have seen with brexit its going to be a joke watching them try and run the country,scary times ahead,brexit will leave its mark well after me,you and the motor industry have gone

I do agree with you about the current mess, and a GE right now would indeed deliver an even bigger mess. But after Brexit reaches a conclusion the major parties will once again concentrate on domestic issues, those new fringe parties will disappear, and normality will return. 

[CG1 Blue]

4 minutes ago, bomber said:

so he is speaking about what he thinks another person "might" do,your correct he is outspoken,i wouldnt lose too much sleep over it,iam sure there are plenty of MPs in the EU who dont like everything about it but they know its better in than out,i never always liked whatever job i was doing but i always knew where the door was,but i prefered the benefits of work and money to the dole que,

He's basically saying he looks forward to the EU gaining more and more power, and individual nations having less and less power. And he's not an MP. He and his EU commission buddies are not elected, and you have no say in their appointments. 

[bomber]

23 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I do agree with you about the current mess, and a GE right now would indeed deliver an even bigger mess. But after Brexit reaches a conclusion the major parties will once again concentrate on domestic issues, those new fringe parties will disappear, and normality will return. 

a very soft or no brexit and other parties will gather momentum and take a lot of votes of the big 2 and cause similar problems to now,brexit is going to live on whatever happens,possibly 10-25 years 

[bomber]

20 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

He's basically saying he looks forward to the EU gaining more and more power, and individual nations having less and less power. And he's not an MP. He and his EU commission buddies are not elected, and you have no say in their appointments. 

the main benefits imo of the EU are trade,yes there are laws but they barely effect anybody and certainly havent harmed anyone,and eu workers havent hurt us as some say other than a few plumbers in london, but iam pretty sure IF the EU start going too power crazy there will be enough opposition to halt it from enough countries as the leave people keep telling us,i would rather see the UK remain in up until that point then decide,if brexit is scrapped i would certainly warn them that another one would be forth coming if it started getting silly,a bit of a threat,they might listen they might not

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, bomber said:

a dinosaur of a politician,still living in the past,about as much use as corbyn,the state of that office man,what a mess????

I don’t know how you can possible say that. Many remoaners prefer to say that the Anti - Eu sentiment is fueled by old narrow minded nationalism. Yet here we have Tony Benn, a person who I disagreed with, more than I agreeded with. Stating that his strong objections to the E.u was certainly not due to Nationalism, but solely to the fact that the E.u is a Non- Democratic  Organisation.

  So can I suggest to you bomber, that before you go off,on one of your rants. That firstly, you read and digest what other people are saying or writing.

[bomber]

10 minutes ago, nontabury said:

I don’t know how you can possible say that. Many remoaners prefer to say that the Anti - Eu sentiment is fueled by old narrow minded nationalism. Yet here we have Tony Benn, a person who I disagreed with, more than I agreeded with. Stating that his strong objections to the E.u was certainly not due to Nationalism, but solely to the fact that the E.u is a Non- Democratic  Organisation.

  So can I suggest to you bomber, that before you go off,on one of your rants. That firstly, you read and digest what other people are saying or writing.

non democratic in yours and his opinion,we vote for our govt (although i havent for years) the people then give that govt the power to do as they please,rarely are people happy but thats the way it goes,UK parties deliver less than half what they promise before the elections,nothing the voter can do about it but moan,the EU hasnt hurt or let down the UK citizen/voter anywhere near as much as her UK counterparts,and thats a fact,you agree with me everyday on here on this point when you state you have been stabbed in the back. 

[CG1 Blue]

36 minutes ago, bomber said:

a very soft or no brexit and other parties will gather momentum and take a lot of votes of the big 2 and cause similar problems to now,brexit is going to live on whatever happens,possibly 10-25 years 

No Brexit would definitely cause those problems, yes. No Brexit would be a bigger disaster for this country than any form of Brexit. Our entire democratic system would be blown to pieces and there would be riots on the streets.

And I don't get any pleasure from saying this - unlike many remainers who rejoice at any signs of bad news / predictions relating to Brexit. 

[bomber]

11 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

No Brexit would definitely cause those problems, yes. No Brexit would be a bigger disaster for this country than any form of Brexit. Our entire democratic system would be blown to pieces and there would be riots on the streets.

And I don't get any pleasure from saying this - unlike many remainers who rejoice at any signs of bad news / predictions relating to Brexit. 

riots are project fear,even tommys tribe wont be too bovvered,i agree it will have issues but nothing to worry about,a law will be made to make any future vote's super majoritys or probably not to have any more at all,MPs are well paid and elected to serve and brainless idiots who dont understand trade/law etc shouldnt be given the option ever again,as for bad signs if there werent so many there wouldnt be so much to rejoice at,iam still waiting to see a good example of how we will be better off,this sovereign word keeps getting mentioned but that will not improve my life,health,human rights,income,local services and local hospital,roads,trains,buses or any of my family's.if a fraction of the project fear issues come true i will be affected in some form.

[Grouse]

Erudite discussion about our about our place in the world in future

 

 

[Grouse]

I look forward to our two largest parties fracturing and opening the future to coalion governments. Multiple parties, let's say about 7, would be more democratic.

[tebee]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

I do agree with you about the current mess, and a GE right now would indeed deliver an even bigger mess. But after Brexit reaches a conclusion the major parties will once again concentrate on domestic issues, those new fringe parties will disappear, and normality will return. 

but - there will be a backlash against both the current major parties for letting brexit degenerate into the disorganized chaos it has become. This will be doubly so if it all goes badly and there are major closures and shortages.

 

If we do brexit most of parliaments times is going to be taken  up with sorting out the problems that have arisen from it. We will be trying to generate trade deals left right and center to recover the markets we have lost and sorting out citizens rights on both sides of the channel. We will have independence votes in Scotland and NI  to cope with and they in turn will bring their own problems. It will be at least 10 years before things start to return to any sort of normality and we will still be sorting out problems in thirty years time.

 

The country is not going to come together, the divides will be worse than before. Social cohesion will have been lost and elections will become very unpredictable. FPTP does not work well in this situation. We will do more  navel gazing  than real work politically. Would not surprise me if we decide we need a new written constitution and a new electoral system.

 

Do you see the pressing domestic issues getting sorted any time soon?

[bomber]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

but - there will be a backlash against both the current major parties for letting brexit degenerate into the disorganized chaos it has become. This will be doubly so if it all goes badly and there are major closures and shortages.

 

If we do brexit most of parliaments times is going to be taken  up with sorting out the problems that have arisen from it. We will be trying to generate trade deals left right and center to recover the markets we have lost and sorting out citizens rights on both sides of the channel. We will have independence votes in Scotland and NI  to cope with and they in turn will bring their own problems. It will be at least 10 years before things start to return to any sort of normality and we will still be sorting out problems in thirty years time.

 

The country is not going to come together, the divides will be worse than before. Social cohesion will have been lost and elections will become very unpredictable. FPTP does not work well in this situation. We will do more  navel gazing  than real work politically. Would not surprise me if we decide we need a new written constitution and a new electoral system.

 

Do you see the pressing domestic issues getting sorted any time soon?

scotland and Ni will be brexit all over again except brussels will of moved to London,i can just picture Bojo being the UKs version of Donald Tusk,i wonder if he tells them to bring a sketch along,and wonder if he tells them the world WONT want to trade with them and trade deals WONT be a piece of cake.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, bomber said:

a dinosaur of a politician,still living in the past,about as much use as corbyn,the state of that office man,what a mess????

This dinosaur had better vision than a cat. Unfortunately not living anywhere, he is dead now. I'm surprised you, as such an expert, didn't know that.   

[nauseus]

26 minutes ago, bomber said:

scotland and Ni will be brexit all over again except brussels will of moved to London,i can just picture Bojo being the UKs version of Donald Tusk,i wonder if he tells them to bring a sketch along,and wonder if he tells them the world WONT want to trade with them and trade deals WONT be a piece of cake.

What does that all mean? Really?

[rixalex]

16 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 I have previously explained what my option would be.

 

You chastise me for repeating the same question, yet do so yourself!

 

Here it is again for you.

 

Three options on a STV ballot:

1. Brexit on May's deal, whatever that turns out to be;
2. no deal Brexit;
3. cancel Article 50 and remain.

Got it now?

 

 

You need to read a little more carefully.

 

I asked you why it would be the "final choice". You have proceeded to explain what the choice would be. I already know that. You've already explained it.

 

The 2016 vote was supposed to settle the matter once and for all. The PM told us it was the "final choice" on many occasions before the vote. If you get your wish, and that vote was not the "final choice", why should we believe that another vote will be the "final choice"?

 

You only get to make that promise once with any meaning. Just as you only get to promise to implement whatever the public decides once. Don't bother making promises like that again, once you've broken them. The promises cease to have any meaning.

[sandyf]

On 3/8/2019 at 9:15 AM, rixalex said:

Whereas in 2016, voters where supposed to just be selecting a direction of travel, with the politicians then working on the finer details of how we go in that direction, now voters are expected to get involved with the detail.

Plan that hasn't worked. Faced with a situation where the politicians are incapable of working out the finer details the whole nation should suffer the consequences of their failure. 

The turkeys really did vote for Christmas.

[Grouse]

Tim Sebastian shows how an interview should be conducted. Should have picked him for Question Time. Recommended!

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, nontabury said:

I don’t know how you can possible say that. Many remoaners prefer to say that the Anti - Eu sentiment is fueled by old narrow minded nationalism. Yet here we have Tony Benn, a person who I disagreed with, more than I agreeded with. Stating that his strong objections to the E.u was certainly not due to Nationalism, but solely to the fact that the E.u is a Non- Democratic  Organisation.

  So can I suggest to you bomber, that before you go off,on one of your rants. That firstly, you read and digest what other people are saying or writing.

Opinions do do make something a fact, but some have difficulty differentiating.

 

[rixalex]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Plan that hasn't worked. Faced with a situation where the politicians are incapable of working out the finer details the whole nation should suffer the consequences of their failure. 

The turkeys really did vote for Christmas.

It's not that they are incapable of working out the finer details, it's that they don't want to.

[sandyf]

7 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

He and his EU commission buddies are not elected, and you have no say in their appointments. 

The UK PM is not elected to office, nominated. The UK EU commissioner is nominated by a nominated prime minister and ratified by the EU parliament which has been elected by the people of the respective states.

The representatives of the people of the EU put commissioners into office, a bit like the UK PM.

The PM became an MP by public vote and if you do not like who gets nominated as commissioner then remember who put them there.

Civil servants are not elected by public vote but are the backbone in any administration, just that most are not so high profile as the EU commission, not surprising considering it is responsible for a population of around three quarters of a billion people.  MPs are not instinctively knowledgeable on their respective responsibilities, that comes from the civil servants, in both UK and EU.

[sandyf]

34 minutes ago, rixalex said:

It's not that they are incapable of working out the finer details, it's that they don't want to.

More opinion, stick to facts.