6 hours ago, nauseus said:

If you can't understand it's crap, then I won't be able to convince you otherwise.   

 

I am not asking you to convince me of anything.

 

What I asked was

 

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

So enlighten me; what specifics in her plan do you disagree with, and with what would you replace them?

 

That instead of making any attempt at answering you make the above pathetic excuse for dodging the question speaks volumes.

 

58 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Can you provide a direct quote from Heath in which he admits this?

 

 I have found plenty of articles etc. asserting that Heath lied; but nothing written by or directly quoting Heath himself in which he says this.

 

The closest I've found is No, Britain wasn't lied to when we joined the EU. We knew what we were getting into

 

Translation: "I've lost the argument and know it; but I'm not going to admit it!"

Here's one of many. Easy to find. Quote from the link:

Only one conclusion can be drawn from these facts. When he promised the British people that they would not lose their independence or their sovereignty, Edward Heath knew perfectly well that Britain’s joining the EEC would necessarily involve the sacrifice of both independence and sovereignty.  Edward Heath deliberately lied to the British people.  And Heath’s lies have led directly to the situation we are in today.

 

https://www.richardmilton.net/the-secret-edward-heath-kept-from-the-british-people/

 

Another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG1fHbU5LmE

 

Love it!

9 hours ago, nauseus said:

Heath lied and he admitted it later

As if that has any relevance to truth or the EU!  - grow up!

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Britain’s joining the EEC would necessarily involve the sacrifice of both independence and sovereignty. 

except it didn't - this is a nineteenth century argument by people who think it's still 1950

1 minute ago, wilcopops said:

As if that has any relevance to truth or the EU!  - grow up!

Strange comment but to be expected I suppose. 

2 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

except it didn't - this is a nineteenth century argument by people who think it's still 1950

Of course it did. 

 

1 hour ago, wilcopops said:

except it didn't - this is a nineteenth century argument by people who think it's still 1950

And don't part quote a quote.  

9 hours ago, damascase said:

True! Known as the Most Favoured Nation (MFN) clause in the WTO Agreement.

By the way: the UK is currently granting unilateral preferential tariffs to developing countries under the EU’s - UN based -Generalized System of Preferences. The MFN-clause is waived for this regime. When the UK is out the EU and does not have its own GSP in place, it will have to levy the normal duties on imports from those countries (or it will have to apply these preferences to all WTO Members).

Just listened to a speech this evening given by senior trade negotiatior. One of his favourite stories was the Japanese banning the import of European made skis because ‘their snow was different’.

 

Another grain exporter I spoke to also just admitted he has spent 8 years too-ing and fro-ing from China, and in reality, he hasn’t achieved very much. 

 

So you are giving up unrivalled access to a market of 400m people so you can go out and have the ‘freedom’ of butting your heads against the wall.

 

Yes I know I know, the blue passports are worth it..

10 minutes ago, samran said:

Just listened to a speech this evening given by senior trade negotiatior. One of his favourite stories was the Japanese banning the import of European made skis because ‘their snow was different’.

 

Another grain exporter I spoke to also just admitted he has spent 8 years too-ing and fro-ing from China, and in reality, he hasn’t achieved very much. 

 

So you are giving up unrivalled access to a market of 400m people so you can go out and have the ‘freedom’ of butting your heads against the wall.

 

Yes I know I know, the blue passports are worth it..

Good point. Our ski exports to Japan and grain to China are immense.

As for EU Imports and Exports they are Quid pro Quo.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/12/nissan-to-end-sunderland-production-of-luxury-infiniti-brand

 

More joy. Thanks Brexiters 

9 minutes ago, aright said:

Good point. Our ski exports to Japan and grain to China are immense.

As for EU Imports and Exports they are Quid pro Quo.

There is a larger point here.

 

To say you’ve entirely missed it would be an understatement. 

Just now, samran said:

There is a larger point here.

 

To say you’ve entirely missed it would be an understatement. 

A well thought out constructive reply.

18 minutes ago, Grouse said:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/12/nissan-to-end-sunderland-production-of-luxury-infiniti-brand

 

More joy. Thanks Brexiters 

Pah! Nothing to do with Brexit. No gloomy news ever is and it is the EU's fault anyway.

12 minutes ago, baboon said:

Pah! Nothing to do with Brexit. No gloomy news ever is and it is the EU's fault anyway.

No, Brexit has caused some problems (mostly short term), but why persist in blaming Brexit for all gloomy news? You just devalue your argument by falsely pointing the finger of blame at Brexit. The car industry is going through a crisis and is changing rapidly.

There will be more stories like this in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. Read the story!

 

"The Japanese carmaker said the move was part of plans to withdraw from the premium car market in western Europe, where the Infiniti brand faces stiff competition from local rivals including Jaguar Land Rover, Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz. The company did not mention Brexit.

 

Infiniti blamed Europe-wide market conditions for its decision. Tougher European vehicle emissions standards made research and development more expensive, while the slump in demand for diesel cars has shaken the car industry.

 

Hong Kong-based Infiniti said its restructuring plan would “focus the brand on its largest growth markets, specifically North America and China, while withdrawing from western Europe”.

The company said it would place more focus on its sports utility vehicle lineup in North America, as well as introduce five new vehicles to China over the next five years. Those markets will be served by factories in Japan, North America and Mexico."

 

54 minutes ago, aright said:

Good point. Our ski exports to Japan and grain to China are immense.

As for EU Imports and Exports they are Quid pro Quo.

What?

 

The Austrian premier is called Kneissl! 

2 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

No, Brexit has caused some problems (mostly short term), but why persist in blaming Brexit for all gloomy news? You just devalue your argument by falsely pointing the finger of blame at Brexit. The car industry is going through a crisis and is changing rapidly.

There will be more stories like this in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. Read the story!

 

"The Japanese carmaker said the move was part of plans to withdraw from the premium car market in western Europe, where the Infiniti brand faces stiff competition from local rivals including Jaguar Land Rover, Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz. The company did not mention Brexit.

 

Infiniti blamed Europe-wide market conditions for its decision. Tougher European vehicle emissions standards made research and development more expensive, while the slump in demand for diesel cars has shaken the car industry.

 

Hong Kong-based Infiniti said its restructuring plan would “focus the brand on its largest growth markets, specifically North America and China, while withdrawing from western Europe”.

The company said it would place more focus on its sports utility vehicle lineup in North America, as well as introduce five new vehicles to China over the next five years. Those markets will be served by factories in Japan, North America and Mexico."

 

Yes, yes. It is merely pure happenstance that we are being abandoned in droves at this moment. Doubtlessly the world will come to its senses soon enough and kowtow to the mighty British Lion on the blue passport.

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

What?

 

The Austrian premier is called Kneissl! 

I always had a sneaky feeling you liked hand made production????

5 minutes ago, baboon said:

Yes, yes. It is merely pure happenstance that we are being abandoned in droves at this moment. Doubtlessly the world will come to its senses soon enough and kowtow to the mighty British Lion on the blue passport.

I suspect you won't be blaming this on Brexit: 

LSH Auto UK to open Europe’s ‘largest’ Mercedes-Benz showrooms

LSH Auto UK has said that Greater Manchester and Birmingham will “reap the economic benefits” of its recent investments as it prepares to open two new Mercedes-Benz dealerships.

The group, part of the world’s largest Mercedes-Benz retail group (LSH International), has created 55 new jobs at Mercedes-Benz of Stockport, and 32 new jobs at the site at Mercedes-Benz of Erdington ahead of their official opening later this year.

https://www.am-online.com/news/dealer-news/2019/03/08/lsh-auto-uk-to-open-europe-s-largest-mercedes-benz-showrooms

6 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I suspect you won't be blaming this on Brexit: 

LSH Auto UK to open Europe’s ‘largest’ Mercedes-Benz showrooms

LSH Auto UK has said that Greater Manchester and Birmingham will “reap the economic benefits” of its recent investments as it prepares to open two new Mercedes-Benz dealerships.

The group, part of the world’s largest Mercedes-Benz retail group (LSH International), has created 55 new jobs at Mercedes-Benz of Stockport, and 32 new jobs at the site at Mercedes-Benz of Erdington ahead of their official opening later this year.

https://www.am-online.com/news/dealer-news/2019/03/08/lsh-auto-uk-to-open-europe-s-largest-mercedes-benz-showrooms

87 new jobs? Wow. Let joy be unconfined...

24 minutes ago, baboon said:

87 new jobs? Wow. Let joy be unconfined...

I wonder how many job losses are involved here?

 

Germany falls into 'recession' as Brussels slashes EU growth forecasts

A shock fall in German industrial output in December has dashed hopes for a quick rebound after the country's "carmageddon" woes in late 2018. It points to more pervasive troubles in Europe’s powerhouse economy.

The industrial recession has spread from the car companies - struggling with changes in emissions standards - to construction, chemicals, and the pharmaceutical sectors. It is becoming harder to keep arguing that drought and low water levels on the Rhine are a decisive cause.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/02/07/germany-falls-recession-brussels-slashes-eu-growth-forecasts/

 

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by aright

1 minute ago, aright said:

I wonder how many job losses are involved here?

 

Germany falls into 'recession' as Brussels slashes EU growth forecasts

A shock fall in German industrial output in December has dashed hopes for a quick rebound after the country's "carmageddon" woes in late 2018. It points to more pervasive troubles in Europe’s powerhouse economy.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/02/07/germany-falls-recession-brussels-slashes-eu-growth-forecasts/

 

How is a fall in German industrial output creating jobs in the UK? Or how does it relate to the discussion? 

7 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

How is a fall in German industrial output creating jobs in the UK? Or how does it relate to the discussion? 

When you start answering the questions I and other contributors asked I will start answering yours.

27 minutes ago, aright said:

When you start answering the questions I and other contributors asked I will start answering yours.

Ok, I didn’t know you’re on your period. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by welovesundaysatspace

7 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Ok, I didn’t you’re on your period. 

Periods are accompanied by unpleasantness and involve pain and your it. ????

 

 

1 hour ago, baboon said:

87 new jobs? Wow. Let joy be unconfined...

also out today

Nissan cuts two models from Sunderland plant - BBC News.html

UK economy stalls despite strong January - BBC News.html

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by bomber

7 hours ago, nauseus said:

Here's one of many. Easy to find. Quote from the link:

Only one conclusion can be drawn from these facts. When he promised the British people that they would not lose their independence or their sovereignty, Edward Heath knew perfectly well that Britain’s joining the EEC would necessarily involve the sacrifice of both independence and sovereignty.  Edward Heath deliberately lied to the British people.  And Heath’s lies have led directly to the situation we are in today.

 

https://www.richardmilton.net/the-secret-edward-heath-kept-from-the-british-people/

 

Another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG1fHbU5LmE

 

 

Those are people opining that Heath lied. I know there are plenty of people who assert that; I said as much earlier.

9 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 I have found plenty of articles etc. asserting that Heath lied

Why did you feel the need to find links to prove what I said?

 

However, you said

15 hours ago, nauseus said:

Heath lied and he admitted it later.

(7by7 emphasis)

To which I responded

9 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Can you provide a direct quote from Heath in which he admits this?

So instead of posting yet more links to articles and videos which prove the truth of my earlier statement, how about a quote from the man himself to prove yours? A quote in which he admits he lied; the quote you claim exists.

56 minutes ago, aright said:

When you start answering the questions I and other contributors asked I will start answering yours.

Really?

 

I have endeavoured to answer every question put to me. (That you don't like the answer doesn't mean I haven't provided one!)

 

Yet you Brexiteers regularly ignore my questions to you.

 

I recently asked a question of both @nauseus in this topic and @Laughing Gravy in another. Nauseus gave a feeble excuse for not answering; Laughing Gravy simply ignored it. (Though @Krataiboy made an attempt at answering it by quoting the headline of an article behind a paywall; shame he couldn't give his own opinion, though.)

 

So, I'll ask you that question and see if you answer: what specifics in May's deal do you disagree with, and with what would you replace them?

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Really?

 

I have endeavoured to answer every question put to me. (That you don't like the answer doesn't mean I haven't provided one!)

 

Yet you Brexiteers regularly ignore my questions to you.

 

I recently asked a question of both @nauseus in this topic and @Laughing Gravy in another. Nauseus gave a feeble excuse for not answering; Laughing Gravy simply ignored it. (Though @Krataiboy made an attempt at answering it by quoting the headline of an article behind a paywall; shame he couldn't give his own opinion, though.)

 

So, I'll ask you that question and see if you answer: what specifics in May's deal do you disagree with, and with what would you replace them?

Are you having early drinks?  I wasn't addressing you, conscience maybe, but your perceived answers are sometimes obfuscation or a response to a question that you wished had been or wasn't asked. To give you one example you claimed that in my posts I claimed that EU law has primacy in every single area. My response was show me "Sentence and/or paragraph otherwise its wishful thinking and has no basis in fact." Had you shown me the evidence I would have shut up but all I got was a broad, no evidence, lazy, tepid reply. The question is still open but I expect the same. I am well able to deal with answers I don't like or disagree with but for some people point scoring is more important than the debate.

As for the other question I don't like the backstop and for me it's a show-stopper. From day 1 my choice was to never get anywhere close to the table but to wait for the EU to approach us with a deal which I would have judged on the basis of merit. In the event that didn't transpire my preferred choice was to walk away with no deal. In light of an almost 3 year history imo I was most probably right. 

Let's leave it there shall we.