Mass Exodus

[Jet Gorgon]

I do like to stereotype and generalize, one of my skills. But, Bendix, you are "the man" in this department. Thread after thread of sweeping statements - it's a joy to read, and to know that I'm learning from a master.

I know. I know.

They're a joy to read, aren't they? Frankly, I don't know where all this great material comes from :-)

This is why I admire Bendix. He can wade through a wad of waffling and come up with a succinct reply that clarifies the whole situation in less than a handful of words. Thank you, Bendix. I may amend my thoughts about killing all the lawyers.

[Momo8]

Thailand is going through major instability at the moment, people 'outside' see Thailand as a great tourist destination but no longer a place where you can make money,have some savings and live a trouble free lifestyle. The political climate is uncertain,the economy is faltering,the visa question always uppermost,thai xenophopia can be disconcerting and unless you have 'roots' here,family,house it doesn't make that much sense to stay and struggle.

It's not what it used to be years ago it's becoming more of a transient population of farangs especially farang women.The love affair with living in LOS is paling.I have many friends who have left or are planning to leave as opportunities are uncertain and China is now fast becoming the place to be.I hope to see an improvement all around if not I may also be one of the statistics.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Momo8

[terry57]

I'm certainly not leaving too. Those who are leaving probably came because they were malcontents in their homelands too (let's face it, Thailand attracts them), and now the world isnt working out for them here, they'll go somewhere else to whine and complain.

You can run away from a place, but not from yourself.

Jeez, what a mentality you have

I am staying in this land full of idiots, but two of my acquaintances are leaving also, your stupid comments set apart....

excuse me my good fellow,

could i please ask you a question as your post has me troubled.

if you consider this land is full of idiots ( as you so eloquently put it ) why do you not leave this troubled land like your learned friends have decided to do. ?

maybe you could gain a discount by travelling as a treo. ?

they are obviously in possession of inside information that myself and my dear friend bendix are not privy too.

thank you very much my dear man.

terence.

god is the only way out.

[cnmltd]

Well, I think this question of staying/leaving largely comes down to age and family status. I'm 50 so I don't have any major visa hassles (retirement visa). If I weren't 50 the visa runs could get old pretty fast and I might be inclined to leave. Also, I don't have/want any children. If I had kids I would want them to get a better education than I have seen offered in Thailand.

For me I enjoy my life here in Thailand more than what I left in the states. My life in the states was good. But here I've learned to relax more and not worry so much about getting things done NOW.

Also, it doesn't hurt having a brown-skinned 26yo to curl up with every night......

I am 48 yo, so soon will reach that magical age when getting my yearly visa will be that much easier. Allthough married to a Thai with a son ( Thai/English passport ) it is not much of a problem or hardship anyway.

Regarding my sons education. I have some good friends who visit us here once or twice a year. The wife of this couple was until last year a Headmistress in a school in the UK. She has visited the international school where my son goes and was very impressed with the standard of education he receives. She said he was probably one year or so ahead of his age group in the UK. Ok, the fees are excessive but no more expensive than Germany or Spain where I lived for many years.

The only problem I see are his prospects after he leaves school/university. What then?

Reading the Daily Telegraph Online every morning is enough to put me off even thinking about going back.

[ThaiGoon]

I actually find it interesting that people will leave Thailand because of the coup, undemocratic gov't etc. Then they wanna move to basically comunist countries like China, Cambodia and Vietnam. Hmmmm.

Edited February 20, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[Jet Gorgon]

I'm certainly not leaving too. Those who are leaving probably came because they were malcontents in their homelands too (let's face it, Thailand attracts them), and now the world isnt working out for them here, they'll go somewhere else to whine and complain.

You can run away from a place, but not from yourself.

Jeez, what a mentality you have

I am staying in this land full of idiots, but two of my acquaintances are leaving also, your stupid comments set apart....

excuse me my good fellow,

could i please ask you a question as your post has me troubled.

if you consider this land is full of idiots ( as you so eloquently put it ) why do you not leave this troubled land like your learned friends have decided to do. ?

maybe you could gain a discount by travelling as a treo. ?

they are obviously in possession of inside information that myself and my dear friend bendix are not privy too.

thank you very much my dear man.

terence.

god is the only way out.

Robski, DJT, anybody...call the other medics. What happened to our boy? Wake up little Terry, wake up...get him outta the back seat, give him beer; doesn't his country have social welfare medical? Matters not, I'll pay.

[terry57]

What a beautiful morning flying south down the coast at 300 feet off the water! Things are getting better and better each day here in the Kingdom! Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy my brothers and sisters. We are truly lucky souls!

oh excuse me mr land,

could you please not be so positive, as you could quite possibly offend some of our more intelligent friends on thai visa.

this would be a travesty and could possibly land you in trouble with certain people and god forbid that.

thank you very much my friend.

terence

now one must remain on topic as there are certain rules one must adhere to on this wonderful forum.

i would say that thailand is the land of milk and honey, full to the brim with wonderful people but could surely lose some recalcitrant farang and carry on successfully.

thank you very much.

[cnmltd]

If one thing in life is certain, besides death and taxes, is that change happens. You may be sitting on your smug throne today, but you can be sure that things may change for you tommorrow. Let me give you a few examples.

One guy I know has lived in LOS for over 20 years. He too had for many years a self smug attitude because he also managed to get his BOI visa to set up a business here and continued to do so year after year. I don't know about you but 20 years is no short time to commit to LOS but he too will be baling out soon because someone in Thailand has decided under the premise of the Foreign Business Act to pull his BOI visa. He has a wife and two beautiful daughters and has contributed to Thailand for 2 decades and continues to do so. He earns enough for his family to overcome the marriage visa regulations but hasn't enough spare cash to do a retirement visa because the recent strength of the Thai baht is now also having a major impact on his business.

So here we have a guy, committed to Thailand for 20 years and Thailand thanks him by making it tougher for him to stay and without the BOI he will have to cash in and move on. What happened to his lifestyle dream? It's a long story to go into but he is effectively a man without a country now to call his own because Thailand "is his home" and at the age of 60 he should be looking to relax not worry about where he may have to live next.

Different country, similar theme. In Indonesia last year an elderly lady of 75 who had been married to an Indonesian man for 30 years and who had a home together in Jakarta was told after the death of her husband that due to the property laws in indonesia that she now had 1 year to sell her house and get out of the country and go back home to England. What happened to her paradise? She thought she was at home and at 75 the last thing she needed was to be going back to a country she didn't know anymore.

Yes paradise is wonderful right up to the point when the game plan changes. Under the current rules, a guy with say 8 million baht in the bank can come here and live the dream. That money if invested would give him say 18 to 20 years here if he was being frugal and doesn't sink half of it into a Condo. That takes a guy aged 40 up to the age of say 58. Great! But what if this healthy stress free living in Thailand has been so good that he continues to go on and lives to be 78? That's another 20 years of effectively having no money coming in, and that's assuming of course the game plan hasn't been changed by the Thai's in the meantime. OK so he could get a job as an English teacher or run a bar or scuba dive centre or whatever to keep him ticking along but how many 'really' want to give up the West to step on the tread mill again for a lot less money and lets face it, money making schemes are increasingly getting thinner on the ground to the average Joe and you can thank the new FBA for that.

Let's look at retirement. To retire here you currently need 800k in the bank and to be at least 50 years old. That basically puts all those aged under 50 who have retired early at a disadvantage. Also don't forget, that this is under the current rules. What happens when in say 1 year’s time this becomes 1.5 million or even more as a requirement to retire and let's not forget that this money has to be available in the bank year after year after year until you die!

I now tell people who want to retire here that they need at least 14 million baht as a minimum. I believe that if you cannot muster that much together then don't retire in LOS or even consider coming here long term as the game plan will come and catch you out at some point in the future. Look around you, the evidence of this is here and now, you can see it happening everywhere and I know far too many stories of guys being dropped in it to recite them all here since the new visa rules kicked in.

In my job (I am not a teacher) I am reasonably protected in terms of stability and visa and WP in Thailand because my bosses are in the position to be influential. Some of them are even members of the new constitution drafting committee and so I get to hear things I necessary don't want to hear and I have adopted a sort of Ostrich affect in my daily dealings here in Thailand lest I go mad thinking about some of the hair brained schemes they are cooking up. I could always leave my job of course but then its back to being generally bored again. Besides I am too young to retire and will need to wait another 10 years for that under the current rules in LOS.

Change however is very much in the air at the moment and if the ostriches think that things aren't going to get worse then that's fine by me because we are all allowed our opinions. In many ways I can actually say congratulations to you because you have managed to adopt a rather Thai style of behaving because what you cannot see cannot be happening right?

LOS for many is changing quickly and paradise is quickly losing itself here in Thailand and as one of those who likes to look up and look around occasionally, I can now see far better places to go to at the moment. My advice, especially to those under 50, is that if you have the education, the money and the talent to move on then move on while you can. You should be making hay while the sun still shines and LOS will still be here to come back to when you have that 20 million in your pocket to retire with later on. Who knows you may get to see some of the ostriches walking the other way as you re-enter with their forlorn looks of dismay after realising that their time in paradise has just come to a rather sticky end due to yet more changes that have just been imposed on them.

I'll see you all in 10 years.

After you with the balls mate. ( Quote - Crighton - Red Dwarf )

[Jet Gorgon]

What a beautiful morning flying south down the coast at 300 feet off the water! Things are getting better and better each day here in the Kingdom! Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy my brothers and sisters. We are truly lucky souls!

oh excuse me mr land,

could you please not be so positive, as you could quite possibly offend some of our more intelligent friends on thai visa.

this would be a travesty and could possibly land you in trouble with certain people and god forbid that.

thank you very much my friend.

terence

now one must remain on topic as there are certain rules one must adhere to on this wonderful forum.

i would say that thailand is the land of milk and honey, full to the brim with wonderful people but could surely lose some recalcitrant farang and carry on successfully.

thank you very much.

It's OK, little bro. I'm here. Preparing to give you the breath of Gorgon life. BW, put the Supremes on so we can snap our fingers while the tresses clear out his throat and I do a bit of sashaying about before administration of the said breath. "I need love, love.."

[Momo8]

Compare all of the above with being able to get Chinese PR if you are an investor/own property/business/have family in China and not have to be worried about getting kicked out for visa runs or have the government checking your bank accounts.No place in the world is perfect but it is sad that Thailand cannot study something from other countries.

[terry57]

Thailand is going through major instability at the moment, people 'outside' see Thailand as a great tourist destination but no longer a place where you can make money,have some savings and live a trouble free lifestyle. The political climate is uncertain,the economy is faltering,the visa question always uppermost,thai xenophopia can be disconcerting and unless you have 'roots' here,family,house it doesn't make that much sense to stay and struggle.

It's not what it used to be years ago it's becoming more of a transient population of farangs especially farang women.The love affair with living in LOS is paling.I have many friends who have left or are planning to leave as opportunities are uncertain and China is now fast becoming the place to be.I hope to see an improvement all around if not I may also be one of the statistics.

oh my lovely friend momo,

i have read your informed post with interest.

i have recently travelled to china and i must inform you to be very careful around tiamen square as the police are very touchy with tourists.

it would be shocking if your good self were to sustain an injury so please be very careful.

all these terrible things happenning in thailand its so horrible and i must warn my good friend david j tayler.

thank you very much.

terence

[Momo8]

There's got to be a reason why Beijing got the 2008 Olymic Games, Terry, and not Bangkok. When will that happen I wonder?

[terry57]

I actually find it interesting that people will leave Thailand because of the coup, undemocratic gov't etc. Then they wanna move to basically comunist countries like China, Cambodia and Vietnam. Hmmmm.

mr goon,

i concur with your sentiments exactly.

it is a conundrum why these very learned people should think in this fashion.

i would go that little bit further and ask them to clarify there thoughts, as my good self is confused by there thought patterns.

thank you very much mr goon and may you live in peace till the next millenium.

your servent,

terence

[farang prince]

Hey guys, if this country is supposed to be Paradise, where are you going then?

Are you sure you can leave [mentally]?

I love Thailand and even revel in the strange anomalies of the culture here. But the telling point in whether there is a mass exodus from Thailand is that my lover is now talking about staying year round in our American home, rather than splitting time in Bangkok. That says it all to me.

[jasreeve17]

I didn't think that Terry was a christian. (?)

Terry, don't you still live in Australia? If that's true, the fact doesn't inhibit or belittle your replies, but it does give them a little less weight. A bit like a news reporter writing his stories from afar, it's difficult to be spot on.

There does seem to be a growing feeling of worry here, amongst the resident farangs. My ignorant little black and white World sees two general divides:-

1) People that stick their heads in the sand / chooses to live an enjoyable day to day life.

2) People that are socially concerned / worry too much about things they have no power over.

Each group regularly disagrees with the other on numerous thread topics, but often because of the same underlying ideals. I'm in group 2, but I reckon that people in group 1 enjoy their life more than me. I think that they are socially irresponsible, but I'm jealous of them too, and would like to take on some of their traits.

Lots of people I know are less happy than before, but nobody has left yet. I think that I will though, in about six months. I think that living in Spain (many quality areas away from lager louts) and Italy might be options for me.

[terry57]

I'm certainly not leaving too. Those who are leaving probably came because they were malcontents in their homelands too (let's face it, Thailand attracts them), and now the world isnt working out for them here, they'll go somewhere else to whine and complain.

You can run away from a place, but not from yourself.

Jeez, what a mentality you have

I am staying in this land full of idiots, but two of my acquaintances are leaving also, your stupid comments set apart....

excuse me my good fellow,

could i please ask you a question as your post has me troubled.

if you consider this land is full of idiots ( as you so eloquently put it ) why do you not leave this troubled land like your learned friends have decided to do. ?

maybe you could gain a discount by travelling as a treo. ?

they are obviously in possession of inside information that myself and my dear friend bendix are not privy too.

thank you very much my dear man.

terence.

god is the only way out.

Robski, DJT, anybody...call the other medics. What happened to our boy? Wake up little Terry, wake up...get him outta the back seat, give him beer; doesn't his country have social welfare medical? Matters not, I'll pay.

you may laugh and mock me miss jet,

but i have found the true meaning of life and have become an upstanding english gentleman and very serious when it comes to approaching peoples OP'S on this wonderful forum.

it is a religous experience i have undergone and god loves you, as he loves all the creatures on this upstanding forum.

thank you very much.

terence

[ThaiGoon]

There's got to be a reason why Beijing got the 2008 Olymic Games, Terry, and not Bangkok. When will that happen I wonder?

Yeah, it all got to do with the coup, the FBA, 90 day visa rule, and crackdown on unqualified English teachers, and nothing to do with the fact that China's economy is about 5 times the size of Thailand's and that their communist gov't can raise and utilize their resources in whichever way they want to stage the Olympics.

[kmart]

Has terry 57 been "born again?"

Always seems especially cruel to one's Mother, I do feel........

[ThaiGoon]

I actually find it interesting that people will leave Thailand because of the coup, undemocratic gov't etc. Then they wanna move to basically comunist countries like China, Cambodia and Vietnam. Hmmmm.

mr goon,

i concur with your sentiments exactly.

it is a conundrum why these very learned people should think in this fashion.

i would go that little bit further and ask them to clarify there thoughts, as my good self is confused by there thought patterns.

thank you very much mr goon and may you live in peace till the next millenium.

your servent,

terence

[Jet Gorgon]

Has terry 57 been "born again?"

Always seems especially cruel to one's Mother, I do feel........

Nope, lobotomised, I reckon, along with Momo; see how he has degenerated since he changed his avatar? Nurse Ratched is lurking among us.

[Momo8]

My point was that China is RESOURCEFUL nothing about government,more to do with people and mentality.Without going into political handcuffs, Thailand has everything going for Thailand just no idea how to use it/exploit it or market it.They need to get up and into the real world not hide behind the palm trees.

[Gary A]

I have a good friend who had to leave mainly because of the visa issue. He was here for more than 15 years and even though he is well over fifty years old he simply didn't have the necessary funds to stay. The property he has lived in for more than 12 years is not in his name even though he paid for it all. Since he has no lease or ownership he has nothing of value to sell. I told him long ago that the company thing could bite him. He wasn't worried. The bogus company has since been dissolved because of his financial problems.

As for myself, I could live nearly anywhere I choose. I qualify for the retirement visa and also have a Thai wife. I am far from wealthy but am comfortable. I am certainly not reassured with the Thai government and the uncertainty that creates but unless something really drastic happens this is where I have chosen to live out the remainder of my life. I don't plan on leaving but to say I'm NEVER leaving is too positive of a statement.

Unlike my friend who had to leave, I always followed my plan to NEVER spend more than I could afford to walk away from. That hasn't changed. My children will likely inherit my nest egg but I have always felt that I should hang onto it and not spend it. I do spend the dividends. My Thai wife will inherit all that I have here so that is also taken care of. Leaving my nest egg to my children was never part of my plans but I need the sense of security it gives me.

[terry57]

There's got to be a reason why Beijing got the 2008 Olymic Games, Terry, and not Bangkok. When will that happen I wonder?

oh momo,

i must enlighten you on your very interesting question .

the answer is, the year 2004 was a very unlucky number for the chinese and they withdrew there bid.

the year 2008 is very auspicious and filled with good furtune in the chinese eyes.

they were virtually "a walk up start" for these olympics because of there rising power through out the civilised world.

in other words, they were always going to be given these olympics.

now momo,

if you need any more complex questions answered, feel free to engage myself, as i am always available to assist thai visa members with there conundrums.

good luck to your good self momo.

terence

ps , could i please ask you in the most polite way to please address myself with my correct title.

that being, " TERENCE."

thank you very much momo.

[davidjtayler]

There's got to be a reason why Beijing got the 2008 Olymic Games, Terry, and not Bangkok. When will that happen I wonder?

oh momo,

i must enlighten you on your very interesting question .

the answer is, the year 2004 was a very unlucky number for the chinese and they withdrew there bid.

the year 2008 is very auspicious and filled with good furtune in the chinese eyes.

they were virtually "a walk up start" for these olympics because of there rising power through out the civilised world.

in other words, they were always going to be given these olympics.

now momo,

if you need any more complex questions answered, feel free to engage myself, as i am always available to assist thai visa members with there conundrums.

good luck to your good self momo.

terence

ps , could i please ask you in the most polite way to please address myself with my correct title.

that being, " TERENCE."

thank you very much momo.

You are a very polite and helpful person Terence and I, for one, think that you are a credit to this forum

[ThaiGoon]

My point was that China is RESOURCEFUL nothing about government,more to do with people and mentality.Without going into political handcuffs, Thailand has everything going for Thailand just no idea how to use it/exploit it or market it.They need to get up and into the real world not hide behind the palm trees.

I'm sure if Thailand managed to host the Olympic Games, there would undoubtedly be a slew of holier-than-thou farangs on TV who come out and criticize the Thai government for being wasteful with their limited resources on such a meaningless one-off event and not using it properly to bridge the gap between the rich and the poor in the country. Of course when China does it, it is praised for being "resourceful" and stuff.

[cdnvic]

What a beautiful morning flying south down the coast at 300 feet off the water! Things are getting better and better each day here in the Kingdom! Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy my brothers and sisters. We are truly lucky souls!

Paragliding or do you just fly for the world's most exciting airline?

[Momo8]

Now, now Ms Gorgon,keep your hair under your hat. Flamethrowing is not a registered Olympic sport anymore and went out centuries ago .Poor Terry is jesting, I'm sure.Strange how patriotic one becomes under the influence of LOS.Keep an impartial view at all times.Thailand still has much to learn.Oh and China is being advised by the Sydney Olympic Commitee.

Sorry Terence.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Momo8

[terry57]

Has terry 57 been "born again?"

Always seems especially cruel to one's Mother, I do feel........

mr kmart,

thank you very much for noticing how i have advanced myself in the last few days and its a very enlightening and positive advancement.

my lovely mother would be very proud of her only son but unfortunatly she is deceased, but when i return to thailand i shall contact a medium for a face to face chat with her so she can rejoice with me.

thank you once again mr kmart for your loving thoughts.

terence.

and just to keep on topic, viva la thailand

[Momo8]

"Viva la Thailand"? They just beheaded a few poor souls in the French Revolution what are they likely to do in Thailand?

Edited February 20, 2007 by Momo8

[terry57]

There's got to be a reason why Beijing got the 2008 Olymic Games, Terry, and not Bangkok. When will that happen I wonder?

oh momo,

i must enlighten you on your very interesting question .

the answer is, the year 2004 was a very unlucky number for the chinese and they withdrew there bid.

the year 2008 is very auspicious and filled with good furtune in the chinese eyes.

they were virtually "a walk up start" for these olympics because of there rising power through out the civilised world.

in other words, they were always going to be given these olympics.

now momo,

if you need any more complex questions answered, feel free to engage myself, as i am always available to assist thai visa members with there conundrums.

good luck to your good self momo.

terence

ps , could i please ask you in the most polite way to please address myself with my correct title.

that being, " TERENCE."

thank you very much momo.

You are a very polite and helpful person Terence and I, for one, think that you are a credit to this forum

oh thank you so very very much MR DAVID J TAYLER and you sound like a very kind person indeed.

i would be extremely humbled to make your acquantence, and i know of a fine drinking establishment on a respectable street called rambuttri.

the" gecco bar" is mostly filled with upper class people and i feel our presence could only enhance there reputation.

i have heard that you have some fine girl friends of a "mixed gender" and they also are welcome to endulge in an alchoholic beverage, in a sociable manner of course.

it will be my please to meet you david.

respectfully from an english gentleman,

terence.