Racial Bias in Britain

[simoh1490]

Around ten years ago a number of posters jumped all over me for suggesting that large numbers of Brits. were seriously racist, "oh no they said, Britain is one of the most tolerant countries on earth" - nothing I've seen since that time has changed my mind, in fact, thousands of comments on TVF subsequently have only strengthened my view. An ICM poll recently confirmed the extent to which racist bias exists in the UK and it makes interesting reading:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/02/revealed-the-stark-evidence-of-everyday-racial-bias-in-britain

 

From recent threads on TVF we know that large numbers of posters seriously dislike the Chinese, can't stand being around Indians or Pakistani's and loathe the Arabs, not for any sensible reason that I can see other than their cultures and customs are very different from our own. Significantly, given that so many posters take every opportunity to bash Thai people for absolutely everything, I can only guess that is also an extension of racist their attitudes.

 

All of this is very odd to me since here we are, guests in a foreign country, a people with an education mostly better than that of our hosts and with the benefit of experience learned from international travel, why is it then that we as a group are far more overtly racist than the people here everyone likes to bash so much?

[Denim]

Talking of overtly racist , have they started a double pricing for tourist attractions in the UK yet, you know like in our script :

 

' entrance fee .....5 pounds '

 

and in other scripts , Thai, Arabic , Chinese etc

' entrance fee ......50 pounds

 

Really should get on this then maybe they could throttle back on some of the austerity measures. Get a few more bobbies on the beat or something.

[simoh1490]

17 minutes ago, Denim said:

Talking of overtly racist , have they started a double pricing for tourist attractions in the UK yet, you know like in our script :

 

' entrance fee .....5 pounds '

 

and in other scripts , Thai, Arabic , Chinese etc

' entrance fee ......50 pounds

 

Really should get on this then maybe they could throttle back on some of the austerity measures. Get a few more bobbies on the beat or something.

For sure that's not a really good thing but it is merely commercial in nature and it does apply to all non-Thais. The sort of racism I'm talking about and which the poll quite shockingly identifies is people being wrongly suspected of a crime, strangers being verbally abused solely on the basis of their race and generally being treated differently.

[Oxx]

The poll results are open to very different interpretations.  For example:

 

"Being overlooked in a job application process or for promotion at work in a manner that felt unfair" could simply be that the ethnic minorities have an inflated and unrealistic sense of their abilities.  It's well known that the proportion of black students in Oxbridge is very low because they disproportionately apply for the most competitive subjects such as law.

 

"Being refused entrance or asked to leave a restaurant, bar or club for no good reason".  The "no good reason" could actually be a very good reason, but that the individual simply didn't know that their appearance or behaviour was unacceptable by the standards of the establishment.

 

 

[ezzra]

Not sure what the OP is on about, show me a country devoid of racism and discrimination and i'll show you utopia, every country on earth has racist people to this or that degree, some hidden and suppressed and some showing for all the world to see, so yes the UK has it, the US has it big time and so many of the European countries...

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, Oxx said:

The poll results are open to very different interpretations.  For example:

 

"Being overlooked in a job application process or for promotion at work in a manner that felt unfair" could simply be that the ethnic minorities have an inflated and unrealistic sense of their abilities.  It's well known that the proportion of black students in Oxbridge is very low because they disproportionately apply for the most competitive subjects such as law.

 

"Being refused entrance or asked to leave a restaurant, bar or club for no good reason".  The "no good reason" could actually be a very good reason, but that the individual simply didn't know that their appearance or behaviour was unacceptable by the standards of the establishment.

 

 

So you think the poll may have reached the wrong conclusions and those 47% innocent foreigners suspected of shoplifting were just a mistake? 

 

Without seeing data it's hard to comment on your Oxbridge/promotion example.

 

Your last point is always a possibility but isn't that leaning a tad towards grasping at straws.

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Not sure what the OP is on about, show me a country devoid of racism and discrimination and i'll show you utopia, every country on earth has racist people to this or that degree, some hidden and suppressed and some showing for all the world to see, so yes the UK has it, the US has it big time and so many of the European countries...

Let me try and be more specific, just for you ezzra:

 

I don't understand why Brits/westerners in Thailand (not just in their home country) are so intolerant and overtly racist towards the races I mentioned, a trait that is confirmed by their attitudes at home, according to the survey.

[Sheryl]

For a hilarious (and insightful) take on this see Trevor Noah's "In the Dark" (or something like that)...it's on Netflix.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[simoh1490]

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

For a hilarious (and insightful) take on this see Trevor Noah's "In the Dark" (or something like that)...it's on Netflix.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

"Afraid of the Dark", it's excellent and very funny.

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Let me try and be more specific, just for you ezzra:

 

I don't understand why Brits/westerners in Thailand (not just in their home country) are so intolerant and overtly racist towards the races I mentioned, a trait that is confirmed by their attitudes at home, according to the survey.

I honestly think you are mixing with the wrong crowd simoh, nothing I have come across here in Thailand with my friends suggests that we Brits are overly racist, incidentely I think you have set up a topic ready for some people who already dislike us to have a pop at us, custom built for them so to speak. Most of my friends have Thai friends and can speak a modicum of Thai and have nothing but respect for our hosts. 

The biggest problem I have with Westerners, not just Brits is the swearing, I totally abhor it, even when there are no ladies present I feel uncomfortable, some people seem to struggle with sentences without at least 3 expletives being involved. I have had barbicues at my house and all the Thai ladies there were all educated, but one man (not Brit) insisted talking to them like they were bargirls, he was asked to leave.

But if you have read a survey in the leftest rag, The Guardian, who am I to argue. ????

[Oxx]

26 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Without seeing data it's hard to comment on your Oxbridge/promotion example.

 

"Oxford says that between 2015 and 2017, 41 per cent of applications from black pupils were for Medicine and Law, compared to about 12 per cent for white students."

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-oxford-is-actually-more-likely-to-offer-a-place-to-the-best-black-candidates

[simoh1490]

18 minutes ago, vogie said:

I honestly think you are mixing with the wrong crowd simoh, nothing I have come across here in Thailand with my friends suggests that we Brits are overly racist, incidentely I think you have set up a topic ready for some people who already dislike us to have a pop at us, custom built for them so to speak. Most of my friends have Thai friends and can speak a modicum of Thai and have nothing but respect for our hosts. 

The biggest problem I have with Westerners, not just Brits is the swearing, I totally abhor it, even when there are no ladies present I feel uncomfortable, some people seem to struggle with sentences without at least 3 expletives being involved. I have had barbicues at my house and all the Thai ladies there were all educated, but one man (not Brit) insisted talking to them like they were bargirls, he was asked to leave.

But if you have read a survey in the leftest rag, The Guardian, who am I to argue. ????

If spending time on TVF is "mixing with the wrong crowd" then yes, I can agree, solely in the context of this topic - nobody I know in person behaves the same way that a majority of posters do here and that is my sole basis for starting the thread. I applaud your attitude in the example you stated of the Brit. at the barbeque, I've done similar in an upmarket restaurant in HK some years ago with a Brit who thought it was OK to behave as the same way and he was a work colleague!

 

I personally tend to push back when I see a conveyer belt of abuse designed to denigrate other races without people even thinking or understanding the issues, the recent thread about the Phuket propeller accident involving a Chinese woman yesterday was classic in both respects, it was appalling but allowed. As for The Guardian, I read all sorts of news sources, as do most sensible people.

 

To add: I think this is simply the way that large numbers of Brits (and Americans) are yet most Brits go to an extreme to suggest the opposite plus there's endless legislation designed to prevent people from being that way - let's face it, if people weren't that way already the legislation wouldn't be needed in the first place. Sadly, Thailand doesn't have such legislation, yet!

 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by simoh1490

[vogie]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

If spending time on TVF is "mixing with the wrong crowd" then yes, I can agree, solely in the context of this topic - nobody I know in person behaves the same way that a majority of posters do here and that is my sole basis for starting the thread. I applaud your attitude in the example you stated of the Brit. at the barbeque, I've done similar in an upmarket restaurant in HK some years ago with a Brit who thought it was OK to behave as the same way and he was a work colleague!

 

I personally tend to push back when I see a conveyer belt of abuse designed to denigrate other races without people even thinking or understanding the issues, the recent thread about the Phuket propeller accident involving a Chinese woman yesterday was classic in both respects, it was appalling but allowed. As for The Guardian, I read all sorts of news sources, as do most sensible people.

 

 

 

 

Not sure if your last sentence was a dig at me, but yes I agree with mostly what you said.

 

Yes on TV, there is too much "racism" and even name calling, I know these people would not say it to my face, so why do they feel the need to insult from the safety of their keyboard, because they can I guess.

 

Anyway good luck with your topic and I hope it does not turn into another Brit bash.

[kannot]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

seriously dislike the Chinese, can't stand being around Indians or Pakistani's

Well having  a  Wife involved with rentals of condos Id  say...............they were right at least for cleanliness, many owners  will not accept them. Chinese are  heavy smokers rooms get wrecked even when informed BEFORE renting "no smoking", Indians and Pakistanis also not so welcome.

Maybe experience changes  your mind.

[kannot]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

Around ten years ago a number of posters jumped all over me for suggesting that large numbers of Brits.

Good  job the Thais arent then eh???

[kannot]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

does apply to all non-Thais.

NO it applies  to anyone who doesnt  look Thai, my Burmese worker got in at the Thai price when he kept his  mouth shut.

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, kannot said:

Good  job the Thais arent then eh???

I didn't understand the above.

 

But I do understand that different people have different experiences and that sometimes taints their views, that happens with all races of people everywhere.

[simoh1490]

5 minutes ago, kannot said:

NO it applies  to anyone who doesnt  look Thai, my Burmese worker got in at the Thai price when he kept his  mouth shut.

Let's not split hairs, the message was crystal clear in that dual pricing is commercial in nature and this is about racist attitudes, not commercial opportunism.

[Enoon]



"why is it then that we as a group are far more overtly racist than the people here everyone likes to bash so much?"

 

I encounter virtually no racist behaviour in my part of the UK.

 

Because in my part of the UK the racial demographic matches the national average:

 

About 6.9% Asian/Asian British and 3% Black/Black British.

 

A high percentage of Caucasian Brits in Thailand seem to come from areas in the UK that have much higher percentages of non-caucasians, which upsets them.

 

So the simple answer is that Thailand is one of the go-to places for white-flighters (strange as the natives tend to be brown).

 

You will notice that there is also a lot of resentment shown towards the brown people among whom they have chosen to dwell.

 

Basically Thailand is (for many of a certain type of Brit) what South America used to be for Nazis on the run.

 

TVF is an English speaking forum.......so here they vent.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Enoon

[kannot]

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Let's not split hairs, the message was crystal clear in that dual pricing is commercial in nature and this is about racist attitudes, not commercial opportunism.

Its racist "look Thai" pay Thai price, look not  Thai, pay another price, staff "Looked  Thai" paid  Thai price, money aspect  irrelevant imo

[kannot]

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I didn't understand the above.

 

But I do understand that different people have different experiences and that sometimes taints their views, that happens with all races of people everywhere.

Thais must be one of the most racist nations going, look down on all their neighbours but look up to the Japanese etc

[pastprime]

3 hours ago, ezzra said:

Not sure what the OP is on about, show me a country devoid of racism and discrimination and i'll show you utopia, every country on earth has racist people to this or that degree, some hidden and suppressed and some showing for all the world to see, so yes the UK has it, the US has it big time and so many of the European countries...

I'm sure,just likes wasting his time churning out twaddle.  UK for example,more specific UK citizens here in Thailand,generally they pay their way,keep their noses clean. Now  in the UK,many races,many ghettos,London especially,focusing on black communities,knife crime at all time high, I'm not racist one bit,but welcome them getting on with it,whitey stays well away,nothing racist there,not by a mile

   Muslim in UK  detests Universal Credit being imposed on their tribe,cites Dress code, language and religious duties as just 3 amongst many that keeps them from work ethic, now I'm not racist, not one bit,but would see them starve,as opposed to giving them free money

[dick dasterdly]

5 hours ago, Oxx said:

The poll results are open to very different interpretations.  For example:

 

"Being overlooked in a job application process or for promotion at work in a manner that felt unfair" could simply be that the ethnic minorities have an inflated and unrealistic sense of their abilities.  It's well known that the proportion of black students in Oxbridge is very low because they disproportionately apply for the most competitive subjects such as law.

 

"Being refused entrance or asked to leave a restaurant, bar or club for no good reason".  The "no good reason" could actually be a very good reason, but that the individual simply didn't know that their appearance or behaviour was unacceptable by the standards of the establishment.

 

 

Quite.  I find it very unlikely that many (if any) non-white people were refused entrance or asked to leave a restaurant or bar - purely because they weren't white!

 

The Guardian article also reveals that "One of the few positive findings was that just over half of those surveyed said they had either never experienced someone directing racist language at them, or had not done so for at least five years.".

 

"just over half" are, apparently, a lucky minority according to the Guardian, who are determined to pursue the line that 'Brits. are particularly racist'!

 

Presumably because they, like the OP, are convinced that the brexit result is because the Brits. are racist.....

Edited December 3, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[sanemax]

6 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

From recent threads on TVF we know that large numbers of posters seriously dislike the Chinese, can't stand being around Indians or Pakistani's and loathe the Arabs, not for any sensible reason that I can see other than their cultures and customs are very different from our own.

Although thats because of their behavior , rather than from where they are from .

   Chinese tour groups of 20 people walking around loudly and obnoxiously and blocking the walk way is disliked because there is a big group of people behaving in an annoying way , rather than being disliked for being Chinese .

   If there were groups of British people behaving in such a manner , we would critisise them as well

[dick dasterdly]

I'd add that I used to think I was not at all racist - until someone seriously annoyed me and my inner swear words included the word 'black' ☹️.

 

It came as a horrible suprise, as I'd always been the 'brave' one - pointing out when someone told a racist joke - that it was unacceptable.  And I was always thanked by my friends afterwards for saying what they were thinking, but weren't 'brave' enough to say.

 

I was taken aback by my 'inner swear word', and have come to the conclusion that 99% of us are racist, to a greater or lesser extent - even if we think we're not...

Edited December 3, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[sanemax]

4 hours ago, Enoon said:

A high percentage of Caucasian Brits in Thailand seem to come from areas in the UK that have much higher percentages of non-caucasians, which upsets them.

 

So the simple answer is that Thailand is one of the go-to places for white-flighters (strange as the natives tend to be brown).

I dont believe that you can know where Caucasian Brits who live in Thailand come from (in the UK) .

   If indeed you do know that a high percentage of Brits come from non multicultural areas in the UK , could you post some figures up as to where they come from (or was you just making that up ?)

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'd add that I used to think I was not at all racist - until someone seriously annoyed me and my inner swear words included the word 'black' ☹️.

 

It came as a horrible suprise, as I'd always been the 'brave' one - pointing out when someone told a racist joke - that it was unacceptable.  And I was always thanked by my friends afterwards for saying what they were thinking, but weren't 'brave' enough to say.

 

I was taken aback by my 'inner swear word', and have come to the conclusion that 99% of us are racist, to a greater or lesser extent - even if we think we're not...

"Black" isnt a swear word though .

Also , calling someone a name when you are angry doesnt make you a racist , its just means that you have a temper problem 

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Let's not split hairs, the message was crystal clear in that dual pricing is commercial in nature and this is about racist attitudes, not commercial opportunism.

So why do you believe the survey when it said that they were "refused entrance or asked to leave a restaurant, bar or club for no good reason". "?

 

As far as I know, restaurants and bars are very "commercial in nature"!

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

other than their cultures and customs are very different from our own.

That isn't racism.

I'm OK with anyone who will eat bacon sarnies for breakfast.

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, Enoon said:

So the simple answer is that Thailand is one of the go-to places for white-flighters (strange as the natives tend to be brown).

Most of left to escape the tyrannical gynocracy and anti-male laws.

Which is why we ended up in Thailand.