U.S. expects immediate action from China on trade commitments

[mtls2005]

"Kudlow and Mnuchin are just applying liptstick on a pig."

 

Would be nice if they put the lipstick on the pig's lips, and not the butt.

 

And if they were using the same color lipstick, and the same pig.

 

What a mess.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by mtls2005

[Cryingdick]

6 hours ago, Tug said:

The Chinese have been negotiating fir 1,000+years do you honestly think Donald is going to get his way really???

 

He needs to hold his ground right now. China has more to lose the USA buys their crappy products. We also owe China a lot of money. When you owe the bank $500,000 they own you. When you owe the bank 500 billion dollars you own them.

 

The tariffs are small and a drop in the bucket as they stand even if they go up to 25% on 250 billion. It's nothing. Trump should be more bold and raise tariffs to 25% of the whole enchilada. America will suffer but not as much as some other countries. 

 

I am willing to take a hit on my stocks if this happens. If Trump caves now we will be pleased forever. It's time to make a stand. One that is strong enough that their dear president for life can appreciate it.

 

America is self-sufficient if it wants (or has) to be. Xi is trying to out last Trump and Trump must not let this happen if he stands any chance at a second term.

 

 

[Cryingdick]

7 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Would be nice if they put the lipstick on the pig's lips, and not the butt.

 

And if they were using the same color lipstick, and the same pig.

 

What a mess.

 

 

 

I don't think that was my quote. 

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

He needs to hold his ground right now. China has more to lose the USA buys their crappy products. We also owe China a lot of money. When you owe the bank $500,000 they own you. When you owe the bank 500 billion dollars you own them.

 

The tariffs are small and a drop in the bucket as they stand even if they go up to 25% on 250 billion. It's nothing. Trump should be more bold and raise tariffs to 25% of the whole enchilada. America will suffer but not as much as some other countries. 

 

I am willing to take a hit on my stocks if this happens. If Trump caves now we will be pleased forever. It's time to make a stand. One that is strong enough that their dear president for life can appreciate it.

 

America is self-sufficient if it wants (or has) to be. Xi is trying to out last Trump and Trump must not let this happen if he stands any chance at a second term.

 

 

"When you owe the bank $500,000 they own you. When you owe the bank 500 billion dollars you own them."

This may make sense when applied to the private sphere where if you have a big loan don't pay back your lender, that lender is in trouble. But if the US weren't to honor its Treasury bills, that would throw the world into a massive economic crisis and hugely raise the costs of borrowing.

No, the tariffs are not small and already are hurting small manufacturers. And of course, they're really starting to hurt farmers badly. 

While from a strictly economic point of view, the tariffs should hurt China more than the USA, politically speaking the reverse is true. Trump depends on rural America for political support. If that evaporates he and the Republicans will suffer another big defeat in 2020.

[Srikcir]

10 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Xi is trying to out last Trump

You do realize do you not that Xi's Presidency is now enshrined in China's constitution. Unless there's a political coup within the Politburo, Xi is President for life. Also remember that Communism is a one-party system - there is no such thing as an opposition party or any independent check & balance on Chinese Presidential power. Beginning in January 2019 Trump will face an overwhelming majority Democrat House aside from any consequences from the Mueller investigation.

[Cryingdick]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

"When you owe the bank $500,000 they own you. When you owe the bank 500 billion dollars you own them."

This may make sense when applied to the private sphere where if you have a big loan don't pay back your lender, that lender is in trouble. But if the US weren't to honor its Treasury bills, that would throw the world into a massive economic crisis and hugely raise the costs of borrowing.

No, the tariffs are not small and already are hurting small manufacturers. And of course, they're really starting to hurt farmers badly. 

While from a strictly economic point of view, the tariffs should hurt China more than the USA, politically speaking the reverse is true. Trump depends on rural America for political support. If that evaporates he and the Republicans will suffer another big defeat in 2020.

 

The perception is he is loyal to Wall Street. The case today as i am painfully aware after his tariff man tweet is he can and will let stocks drop.

 

What i mean about owing that much money is China couldn't;t call it in if they wanted to. The USA should take a more Chinese approach to things and just stick it to them. It would hurt us but Xi will also face immense pressure.

 

Probably more so than Trump in many ways. Xi wants to be president for life after all. China's economy is in the toilet and Trump should disregard Wall Street and ratchet it up. 25% across the board. 

 

The farmers will hurt but the farmers these days aren't little mom and pop operations, they are the richest people in  middle America. The difference is the farmers when their crops rot because they are overflowing storage bins, is those are realized gains.

 

Maybe it's time to rotate crops. The government has paid farmers to grow certain things or not to till for ages. Until we stand up to China maybe the good times are over and it's time to tighten our belts. God knows many Americans should do this.

 

This is the wrong time to take the pressure off regardless of domestic worries.

[Cryingdick]

1 minute ago, Srikcir said:

You do realize do you not that Xi's Presidency is now enshrined in China's constitution. Unless there's a political coup within the Politburo, Xi is President for life. Also remember that Communism is a one-party system - there is no such thing as an opposition party or any independent check & balance on Chinese Presidential power. Beginning in January 2019 Trump will face an overwhelming majority Democrat House aside from any consequences from the Mueller investigation.

 

Precisely because Xi is president for life is the reason the USA needs to put him in check right now at any cost.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Cryingdick said:

 

The perception is he is loyal to Wall Street. The case today as i am painfully aware after his tariff man tweet is he can and will let stocks drop.

 

What i mean about owing that much money is China couldn't;t call it in if they wanted to. The USA should take a more Chinese approach to things and just stick it to them. It would hurt us but Xi will also face immense pressure.

 

Probably more so than Trump in many ways. Xi wants to be president for life after all. China's economy is in the toilet and Trump should disregard Wall Street and ratchet it up. 25% across the board. 

 

The farmers will hurt but the farmers these days aren't little mom and pop operations, they are the richest people in  middle America. The difference is the farmers when their crops rot because they are overflowing storage bins, is those are realized gains.

 

Maybe it's time to rotate crops. The government has paid farmers to grow certain things or not to till for ages. Until we stand up to China maybe the good times are over and it's time to tighten our belts. God knows many Americans should do this.

 

This is the wrong time to take the pressure off regardless of domestic worries.

Clearly, you think China holds a much bigger percentage of American debt than it actually does.  I dont' have a clue as what you mean by debt threats. Just a chimera raised by alarmists. There never was a realistic threat. Certainly China never raised the issue.

 

As for the respective vulnerabilities of Xi and Trump. Xi does't face re-election in 2 years. The Chinese see how Trump was politically damaged from this last election. Trump depends on support from white working class voters in the flyover states. I've got some news for you: they've benefited very little from the continuing economic recovery. It's the coastal Democratic regions that are mostly setting the pace. (Texas is the big exception and it's getting more purple with every election cycle) Very little increase in wages for flyover state workers. What increase there is and more will evaporate for these Walmart shoppers if Trump continues with his sanctions regime. You think they're not going to start peeling away from Trump?

 

I have no idea what you mean about farmers and being the "richest people in middle America". And what do overflowing storage bins have to do with their economic situation? Are they going to be bartering via bushels of corn or soybeans?

 

Rotate crops? What are you on about? What crops? You think that the current market prices for these crops won't be hugely depressed if farmers switch to them in a big way? This is just economically incoherent thinking.

 

And as for pressuring the Chinese? Remember the ZTE case? That Chinese company was about to go under due to a trade ban because of it's flagrantly illegal behavior. But at the last minute, Trump relented? Why? Because he didn't want to put Chinese workers out of business. Trump has already blinked in a big, big way.

[Cryingdick]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Clearly, you think China holds a much bigger percentage of American debt than it actually does.  I dont' have a clue as what you mean by debt threats. Just a chimera raised by alarmists. There never was a realistic threat. Certainly China never raised the issue.

 

As for the respective vulnerabilities of Xi and Trump. Xi does't face re-election in 2 years. The Chinese see how Trump was politically damaged from this last election. Trump depends on support from white working class voters in the flyover states. I've got some news for you: they've benefited very little from the continuing economic recovery. It's the coastal Democratic regions that are mostly setting the pace. (Texas is the big exception and it's getting more purple with every election cycle) Very little increase in wages for flyover state workers. What increase there is and more will evaporate for these Walmart shoppers if Trump continues with his sanctions regime. You think they're not going to start peeling away from Trump?

 

I have no idea what you mean about farmers and being the "richest people in middle America". And what do overflowing storage bins have to do with their economic situation? Are they going to be bartering via bushels of corn or soybeans?

 

Rotate crops? What are you on about? What crops? You think that the current market prices for these crops won't be hugely depressed if farmers switch to them in a big way? This is just economically incoherent thinking.

 

And as for pressuring the Chinese? Remember the ZTE case? That Chinese company was about to go under due to a trade ban because of it's flagrantly illegal behavior. But at the last minute, Trump relented? Why? Because he didn't want to put Chinese workers out of business. Trump has already blinked in a big, big way.

 

With Xi it is now or never. The time has come. It will be interesting and the whole internet trend of calling it a blinking game is a farce. That's the word of the month aped by the internet community at large. It's a little more complex than that.

 

Everybody is watching now what happens next. 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Cryingdick said:

 

With Xi it is now or never. The time has come. It will be interesting and the whole internet trend of calling it a blinking game is a farce. That's the word of the month aped by the internet community at large. It's a little more complex than that.

 

Everybody is watching now what happens next. 

If your remarks about blinking were somehow in defense of Trump's retreat on the ZTE issue, you're going to have to do a lot better than that.

[Cryingdick]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

If your remarks about blinking were somehow in defense of Trump's retreat on the ZTE issue, you're going to have to do a lot better than that.

 

You don't even understand what is happening. Blink.

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

You don't even understand what is happening. Blink.

And I certainly can't count on you for explanations or any demonstration on your part that you do understand.

[Cryingdick]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And I certainly can't count on you for explanations or any demonstration on your part that you do understand.

 

It's pretty simple. trump needs to stand up to China at any cost or Xi will punk the USA for the rest of his life. What don't you understand?

[mtls2005]

10 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

It's pretty simple. trump needs to stand up to China at any cost

 

At any cost?

 

Surely there must be some upper limit? Or are you just going to "wing it"?

 

IMO, one needs to go to the American public, detail the steps/plan, and potential costs, and then move forward.

 

Going into these "negotiations" willy-nilly seems haphazard at best.

 

And then once you sign the deal, at least sign in the right spot.

 

 

 

 

[bristolboy]

15 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

It's pretty simple. trump needs to stand up to China at any cost or Xi will punk the USA for the rest of his life. What don't you understand?

And there are intelligent ways to do this and stupid ways to do it. 'Trump had a huge opportunity to really hurt China's technology sectir and he backed down.

Instead the sanctions he is imposing are going to hurt the most the Americans who can least afford it. And the Chinese can see from the latest elections how politically unpopular Trump already is. All they have to do is hold on tight for 2 years.

[mikebike]

15 hours ago, car720 said:

I have tried mightily to introduce both hydroponics and aquaponics here but to no avail.  They just cannot get past the aspect of making a quick buck selling fake nutrients and parts.

Hydro lettuce grown all over the place by Thai's where I live...

 

Thailand does not, as of yet, have the arable land imperative that Singapore and China have so, of course, would be less amenable to change.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

With Xi it is now or never. The time has come. It will be interesting and the whole internet trend of calling it a blinking game is a farce. That's the word of the month aped by the internet community at large. It's a little more complex than that.

 

Everybody is watching now what happens next. 

Trump has just been caught lying through his teeth about his negotiations with China.

 

The lie he told aimed to tell his base he was winning the trade war.

 

That he felt the need to tell that lie exposes his vulnerability to the Chinese.

 

Get your denial glasses on and make whatever excuses you need to make for your own reasons but don’t expect the rest off us to swallow the BS - Trump is now a threat to the stock market - he’s toast.

[car720]

2 hours ago, mikebike said:

Hydro lettuce grown all over the place by Thai's where I live...

 

Thailand does not, as of yet, have the arable land imperative that Singapore and China have so, of course, would be less amenable to change.

Sorry I was talking about where I live in China.