The Official Maize and Rotational Crops Thread

[farmerjo]

14 minutes ago, kickstart said:

I would have thought incorporating the straw back in to the land would do it some good ,organic matter and all that ,but with your Marroka  being in dock the fuel costs for the Ford could be high you would have to go over it a few times ? to incorporate it all,could you chop the straw first.

Where you are is not a cow area ,but you could still bale it and store it ,the locale cattle farmers will soon know and will buy it off you during the dry season,i know it could be a pain just selling a few bales at a time ,as you say better than burning it,then a bale could be sold for about 25 baht .

It must be 35 years now since straw burning was banned in the UK ,then farmers said a good burn was worth a few quid an acre killing any disease  and pests ,and the P and K in the ash .

A lot of big arable farms on heavy land said what do we do with the straw ,so , the combines had straw choppers on ,chopped the straw ,then disc/cultivators incorporated it to the land ,after a few years of this soil fertility  did improve .

Hi KS

A straw chopper would be nice,they even have developed weed seed destructers as well now.

But not here,as you know it all comes out the back of the harvester in a large row.

I don't think this is a good year for incorporating back into the soil.

Reason being all the nutrients in the soil would be depleted just trying to break down that amount of matter and fertilizer prices are to high.

Also if cannot burn it's a good chance to bale the weed seeds and get them out of the field.

Next week i have to go to town so will call in at a few rice mills and see what they say but i'm pretty sure they burn mostly rice husks and corn cobs.There is a couple of sugar factories but once again they use a majority bagasse.

So far the closest biomass plant that would take straw i can find is 160km's away.

Will keep digging,worst case i can slash it and leave on the surface.

I developed a few ruts this year from offset disking and some early heavy downpours which i also wanted to sort out.

 

 

[IsaanAussie]

Many years ago a friend told me the secret of farming was controlling water. He said only pump it once. Meaning do not move anything unless you add value in doing that. 

When I came here, rice was cut by hand, bundled and then moved to stacks to dry. Then it was threshed and bagged. The straw was then collected and stacked for later use as feed, bedding or whatever. The point being that apart from reciprocal labor, the machinery was paid for in kind, a couple of bags of rice per threshing of 100 bags. Today they worked for me, tomorrow I work for them.

Look at the issue here at the moment, trucks parked up over fuel prices. Same thing for farming, logistics adds cost not margin. Biomass plants are not a money maker if they have to truck in fuel. Rice mills that burn the husks to produce electricity, then sell the char create profit. As do sugar mills that end up selling the bagasse to soil builders.

"Real" harvesters control the chop length of the straw out the back of the machine. Leave it long if you want to bale it, up to you. Shred it if the worms are going to incorporate it into the soil for you.

As Willie Nelson sings in "the scientist", no-one said it was easy, no-one said it would be this hard. 

I am still trying to redefine his next line "I'm going back to the start".

 

[farmerjo]

13 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

Many years ago a friend told me the secret of farming was controlling water. He said only pump it once. Meaning do not move anything unless you add value in doing that. 

When I came here, rice was cut by hand, bundled and then moved to stacks to dry. Then it was threshed and bagged. The straw was then collected and stacked for later use as feed, bedding or whatever. The point being that apart from reciprocal labor, the machinery was paid for in kind, a couple of bags of rice per threshing of 100 bags. Today they worked for me, tomorrow I work for them.

Look at the issue here at the moment, trucks parked up over fuel prices. Same thing for farming, logistics adds cost not margin. Biomass plants are not a money maker if they have to truck in fuel. Rice mills that burn the husks to produce electricity, then sell the char create profit. As do sugar mills that end up selling the bagasse to soil builders.

"Real" harvesters control the chop length of the straw out the back of the machine. Leave it long if you want to bale it, up to you. Shred it if the worms are going to incorporate it into the soil for you.

As Willie Nelson sings in "the scientist", no-one said it was easy, no-one said it would be this hard. 

I am still trying to redefine his next line "I'm going back to the start".

 

Hi IA

As far as comb height for harvesting,it will be cut 200-300mm from the ground,high enough so wind can pass under to dry the rows but short enough not to affect seeding the next crop,that's a given.

Whether the rows are burnt or baled is still up in the air.

 

The price of fuel is concerning and what knock on effect it will have.

I thought one of the reasons that biomass plants were installed was to encourage farmers to bale and not burn the fields,may well be wrong on that.

 

Speaking of water

How was the water management with the pond you put in, you able to control enough space to empty the water out of the fields but refill when required then drain for harvest.

I still have some refinement to do with my set up,mainly overflow issues.  

   

 

[IsaanAussie]

2 hours ago, farmerjo said:

How was the water management with the pond you put in, you able to control enough space to empty the water out of the fields but refill when required then drain for harvest.

Currently the paddies drain into the pond until the pond reaches the paddy level (autofill only). More contouring to do to change that, currently we just gain the pond volume from water that would have drained off property.

I haven't got an off season use for the water yet and the land is fallow through the dry. Still thinking that issue through.

[kickstart]

3 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

Currently the paddies drain into the pond until the pond reaches the paddy level (autofill only). More contouring to do to change that, currently we just gain the pond volume from water that would have drained off property.

I haven't got an off season use for the water yet and the land is fallow through the dry. Still thinking that issue through.

We have had a few farms that grow a crop of mung beans after they crop of rice ,on heavy land that holds water they have been some fair crops of mung beans ,mung beans are about 90 day crop.

So, if it does get a bit dry, they would only need 1 or 2 lots of water .

 You might  need some more water  on Issan sand land .

[farmerjo]

Started harvest on the cowneo rice this afternoon.

Will have to get my moisture meter checked,it was only reading 8.5% although the grain did feel very dry when standing in it.

 

 

[IsaanAussie]

On 11/5/2021 at 9:24 PM, kickstart said:

We have had a few farms that grow a crop of mung beans after they crop of rice ,on heavy land that holds water they have been some fair crops of mung beans ,mung beans are about 90 day crop.

So, if it does get a bit dry, they would only need 1 or 2 lots of water .

 You might  need some more water  on Issan sand land .

A friend close by tried a mixed crop of sun hemp and mung beans plus a few others after harvest. He wanted to know if the soil moisture after rice would carry a 90 day crop. Poor results but the soil was improved after he turned the whole lot in. Plus the locals where allowed to harvest what they wanted for a short period before he dug it all over.

It is still a good thought if as you say 1 or 2 waterings are possible. 

[farmerjo]

With the cowneo rice now sun dried and finishing bagging tomorrow i thought a good time to get a sample off the hom mali.

Took a header sample about 11am then off to town to the millers to get it sampled.

As not growing before for other than family consumption it was an eye opener.

The 1st thing i noticed was a ute load of bags being sampled,they only took samples from the visible bags on top,good to know.

Pricing board,hom mali high price 9 baht and low price 7.5 baht.

The man did our sample which involved moisture test 29.8%

Then he weighed 300 grams into a bowl which went through a screening machine,screenings = 4%,he did mention screenings should be 3%

That was it as to high in moisture for the milling test.

He said with those results we would get the 7.5 baht.

So got home and did some quick calcs not taking into account a possible deduction for the milling loss,just on moisture alone by the time you work out the weight loss to get the 9 baht your only really about 15 satang better off for all the extra required work.

Of course the trouble of drying and storing is beneficial for two reasons,a general increase in price later in the year and the price scheme if you qualify.

But i'm starting to see why the Thai farmers eliminate all the risk and go straight from the field to the millers.

 

 

[473geo]

Also heard an interesting comment the Millers do not like the rice too dry ???? 

[farmerjo]

1 hour ago, 473geo said:

Also heard an interesting comment the Millers do not like the rice too dry ???? 

That gave a chuckle,we've been sun drying the cowneo rice and it has been left in the hands of mama and papa as their wisdom should show through and not to upset the apple cart.

Nobody knows what the moisture was to start with and nobody knows what it is bagged at.

I got a funny look when i was off to the millers today to get a proper sample done.

 

[kickstart]

2 hours ago, 473geo said:

Also heard an interesting comment the Millers do not like the rice too dry ???? 

The only reason  I can think of, if the rice is to dry ,when being trashed some grains will be liable to cracking , more so than if the rice had a higher moisture ,so more will go in to the broken  rice bag , Bie Khow  also known as  Khow-Mar dogs rice ,so the miller will lose out on selling his grade 1 rice .

Any large amount of rice has to be stored at 14-15% moisture ,any higher the crop could well heat up, and it will lower the  selling price. 

 

[farmerjo]

On 11/17/2021 at 9:15 PM, kickstart said:

The only reason  I can think of, if the rice is to dry ,when being trashed some grains will be liable to cracking , more so than if the rice had a higher moisture ,so more will go in to the broken  rice bag , Bie Khow  also known as  Khow-Mar dogs rice ,so the miller will lose out on selling his grade 1 rice .

Any large amount of rice has to be stored at 14-15% moisture ,any higher the crop could well heat up, and it will lower the  selling price. 

 

For the life of me yesterday i spent quite a bit of time trying to find what the broken rice price is at the animal feed mills but came up empty handed.

And whether a big rice year would decrease feed prices.

 

I'm parked up tomorrow with rice harvest,run out of space for drying.

So will do a run to the millers to see how our sun drying seed fairs moisture wise.

5 ton of cowneo bagged and stored,5 ton of hom mali on the blue mesh drying.

Hom mali is going well,tbh i thought 5 ton would see it out but having only harvested 20 rai of the 68 rai expectation is looking brighter.

Anything that matured late looks to have some rice sheath rot so will keep an eye on that.

[kickstart]

2 hours ago, farmerjo said:

For the life of me yesterday i spent quite a bit of time trying to find what the broken rice price is at the animal feed mills but came up empty handed.

And whether a big rice year would decrease feed prices.

Before this year's rice price was announced ,I used to buy 5 kg of broken Hom Marli rice 75 baht ,15 baht kg from our local rice mill .

What the price for grade one rice was then I do not know ,maybe you could go a compare and contrast from then to now give you an idea.

I will call in to our locale rice mill and ask ,but only last week they said they have no rice to thrash ,harvest has yet to start properly ,just a few farmers harvesting .

At the moment feed prices are going up with soya being a big part of the ration, it will be that and corn that will  mainly dictate feed prices, and what percent of a ration will be rice 

But,what did happen to all of Yingluck's rice buying ,rice I remember seeing wear houses full of rice,it must have gone somewhere ,past its sell by date for human consumption ,must have gone for animal feed ,but at what price?    

[farmerjo]

On 11/19/2021 at 9:54 PM, kickstart said:

Before this year's rice price was announced ,I used to buy 5 kg of broken Hom Marli rice 75 baht ,15 baht kg from our local rice mill .

What the price for grade one rice was then I do not know ,maybe you could go a compare and contrast from then to now give you an idea.

I will call in to our locale rice mill and ask ,but only last week they said they have no rice to thrash ,harvest has yet to start properly ,just a few farmers harvesting .

At the moment feed prices are going up with soya being a big part of the ration, it will be that and corn that will  mainly dictate feed prices, and what percent of a ration will be rice 

But,what did happen to all of Yingluck's rice buying ,rice I remember seeing wear houses full of rice,it must have gone somewhere ,past its sell by date for human consumption ,must have gone for animal feed ,but at what price?    

Hi KS

I apologize as pushed on harvesting yesterday and today went for a moisture check but forgot to ask about the broken rice price even though i discussed with my wife on the way there.

Will ask in a couple of days time.

Found out today 3 days of sun drying is bringing the moisture down to 17-18% so will now be parked up for another 2-3 days waiting for drying space.

My moisture meter works fine on corn and sunn hemp but is not reading the rice well so a pia 70 km round trip for getting tests done.

 

 

 

[kickstart]

44 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Found out today 3 days of sun drying is bringing the moisture down to 17-18% so will now be parked up for another 2-3 days waiting for drying space.

Funny  you should say that ,wife's daughter /son-in-law harvested they crop last week ,and are now drying they seed crop for next year ,they say it takes about 3 days of drying to bring the moisture down to a storable  percent ,that would be 15-17% ?.

But ,they only have about one ton to dry ,not the amount you have ,and they just use a bamboo rake to turn it over.

This year they got 60 000 baht for they 24 rie of rice ,last year it was 80 000 baht ,and this year yields were largely  better ,out of that, they have next year's rent to pay 24 rie X 1200 baht /rie =28 800 baht,they have they own Kwie Lec,walk behind tractor ,fuel for that is/will be an expense as they are always pumping water for the rice crop ,take away that plus  fertilizer and spray cost,and any other costs does not leave a lot .do not think about own labour costs. 

I said  to the wife, why do they not give up ,she said what else can they do ,especially son-in-law,that is all he knows ,he is about 41 yeas old ,when they are not farming rice they cut cassava storks for the following years crop ,and plant cassava ,500 baht/rie ,and that is only seasonal .

Talking to a dairy farmer to day he also an arable farmer mainly cassava and some sugar cane , 100 rie, he has  own kit two big tractors ,etc he rents the land 1500 baht /rie ,then he said land nearby is being rented for 2-300 baht/rie ,I said do what ,  how do you make any money on that ,it has to be only cassava or sugar cane ,no way could you make anything out of corn .

Looks like this year will be ok cassava is about 2.30-50baht/kg ,word on the street cane will be 1000 baht/ton ,so far sugar content not so good ,most say it will improve .

I would say with world crud oil prices on the rise ,cassava and cane prices will be good .

[farmerjo]

11 hours ago, kickstart said:

This year they got 60 000 baht for they 24 rie of rice ,last year it was 80 000 baht ,and this year yields were largely  better

That sounds about right KS.

Hom mali's potential around here according to the Ag research centre is 360 kg/rai.

So far we are going about 260 kg/rai on a very weed infestered field.

Our costs for the hom mali work out at 1200 baht/rai with half of that charging myself 600 baht/rai for using the harvester.

So the profit could be anywhere between sell now 750 baht/rai or get government subsidy and make 2700 baht/rai which is still not a lot and income from a 2nd crop of sesame,corn or sunn hemp needed to top up.

The most pleasing thing about growing rice this year besides hearing the seeds rattling into the harvester box has been no lodging at all.

 

On the keeping seed,it really needs to be dried to 10%,cleaned and germination tested.

Not worth the hassel for me,easier to get seed from the Ag station which is proven to use low seeding rates. 

 

 

 

 

 

[kickstart]

59 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

On the keeping seed,it really needs to be dried to 10%,cleaned and germination tested.

Not worth the hassel for me,easier to get seed from the Ag station which is proven to use low seeding rates.

I agree with you especially the gemination rate  and cleaning, but for your average rice farmer buying seed is another cost ,son-in-law had to re-seed a few rie this year ,and had to buy in some  seed at 200 baht per Tang, a 10 kg weight ,or 20 baht/kg he said that hurt ,

But,I am certain the guy selling the seed had him over a barrel ,and upped the price knowing he needed the seed .

A few years ago they were hydroponic thread ,on growing cattle feed in plastic tray ,op said maize is the best .I said what about rice ,plenty about ,he said no ,rice for hydroponics has a low germination rate compared to other seeds,same as for  growing? 

[farmerjo]

On 11/22/2021 at 11:10 AM, kickstart said:

A few years ago they were hydroponic thread ,on growing cattle feed in plastic tray ,op said maize is the best .I said what about rice ,plenty about ,he said no ,rice for hydroponics has a low germination rate compared to other seeds,same as for  growing?

Not sure about hydroponics KS.

If your rice seed has been graded and a germination rate of 99%,99 out of the 100 will sprout.

That result may change by planting time if not stored correctly but that's the same for any seed.

 

Finished rice harvest yesterday,4 ton still out being sun dried then will start the cleaning and bagging process then hurry up and wait to see what the prices do.

All the neighbours extremely happy with their results this year.

Won't be long and most of the rice will be finished around here and everyone will move onto the sugar.

 

Time to clean the harvester.

 

 

 

 

 

[farmerjo]

A good example of a quality rice seed(hom mali)

Given enough space to flourish,this one had 28 tillers.

 

 

[farmerjo]

Seed cleaner turned up today so now the work begins.

With a 2.5mm top screen and 1.8mm middle screen it looks like it will bring the screenings down to under 3%.

I purchased an extra 5 screens of assorted sizes for different grains later on.

 

[IsaanAussie]

Finally got the harvester in today. Water is gone and lodged rice has dried off as much as it is going to. So instructions were cut low and chop the straw as small as possible. Yield looks reasonable and thanks to a great operator who takes his time, loss rate was low. 

Now if I had dug the ponds and channels, it would be time to get started redeveloping this paddy. Time to think about what to do next.

 

 

[farmerjo]

22 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

Finally got the harvester in today. Water is gone and lodged rice has dried off as much as it is going to. So instructions were cut low and chop the straw as small as possible. Yield looks reasonable and thanks to a great operator who takes his time, loss rate was low. 

Now if I had dug the ponds and channels, it would be time to get started redeveloping this paddy. Time to think about what to do next.

 

 

Hi IA

Nice to see an operator take their time and do a good job.

What's the cause of your lodging?

The Fil reakons farmers around here have been going away from using straight nitrogen for the 2nd dose to minimize the lodging but from what i see it's consistant with late season wet fields.

[IsaanAussie]

Just now, farmerjo said:

Hi IA

Nice to see an operator take their time and do a good job.

What's the cause of your lodging?

The Fil reakons farmers around here have been going away from using straight nitrogen for the 2nd dose to minimize the lodging but from what i see it's consistant with late season wet fields.

Both answers in my opinion FJ. Too much vegetative growth without enough root growth, ie. too much Urea. Combine that with poor soil with shallow cultivation, standing water above saturated top surface and all you have to add is a puff of breeze. 

I miss my 22" plough discs they did make a big difference to just planting on top of hard packed clay.

I am tempted to plant a green manure crop to get some roots into the ground while it is soft.

If the press is correct Urea price is about to go ballistic.

[farmerjo]

30 minutes ago, IsaanAussie said:

I am tempted to plant a green manure crop to get some roots into the ground while it is soft.

If the press is correct Urea price is about to go ballistic.

If you can plant a legume crop with a decent taproot,i would as it will help.

My brother said last week in Aus urea gone from $550 to $1500 a ton.

I did read somewhere the government were trying to cap diesel and fertilizer prices here but wont hold my breath.

Years a go we used to use ammonium sulphate i think as a cheap form of urea,especially on crops like canola.

Whether that's available here i don't know. 

[IsaanAussie]

Apparently the Chinese have banned exports. I haven't looked up the numbers but seem to remember China was the majority source. Nitrogen fixation seems like a sensible bet with rock phosphate and potash as backups. 

Rice growing is getting expensive with low prices as the reward. Farms here will have to adapt or consolidate, something has to change.

[kickstart]

 

 

5 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

5 hours ago, farmerjo said:

 

Expand  

Both answers in my opinion FJ. Too much vegetative growth without enough root growth, ie. too much Urea. Combine that with poor soil with shallow cultivation, standing water above saturated top surface and all you have to add is a puff of breeze. 

I miss my 22" plough discs they did make a big difference to just planting on top of hard packed clay.

 As we all know change is something that does not happen very quickly here in Thailand ,as FJ has said  farmers are reluctant to change afraid of problems loss of money and increasing thay  debt burden .

Again as we all know this monoculture  of rice ,low or almost no soil organic matter does not help .

Looking at what IA wrote a good subsoiling would not go a miss brake that pan up ,that would give you more root growth ,could help lodging .

I have seen a few crops that were drilled ,they seem to get off to a good start ,but most farmers do not have a drill cost is about 130-150 baht/rie ,most farmers will say another cost, that is expensive I can do it my self.

But, saying that a good few rie of rice was sprayed with a drone ,this year ,more than last year. so some changes are happening.

[IsaanAussie]

The rice is being dried as is normal. Because of the water and lodging, plus low cut height, there is a bit of dirty straw in the mix. Shouldn.t be an issue in any of the mills around here. Definitely better than all the grass seed in last years harvest.

[IsaanAussie]

Maybe of interest, at the top of the picture above you can see the three or four fodder grasses we have been growing for the last year. Been cut regularly and fed to BIL's cattle. 

[kickstart]

5 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

Maybe of interest, at the top of the picture above you can see the three or four fodder grasses we have been growing for the last year. Been cut regularly and fed to BIL's cattle. 

 How are BIL's cattle ,did he sell any on the government 4 month scheme ,not heard anything about it for some time .

Farmers realizing not a lot of money to be make ,with Lumpy Skin about the beef market has dropped a lot.

The grass looks a bit yellow ,was it water logged or short of N,that Napier on the right  looks well past it best ,not a lot of feed value.

[IsaanAussie]

Just now, kickstart said:

 How are BIL's cattle ,did he sell any on the government 4 month scheme ,not heard anything about it for some time .

Farmers realizing not a lot of money to be make ,with Lumpy Skin about the beef market has dropped a lot.

The grass looks a bit yellow ,was it water logged or short of N,that Napier on the right  looks well past it best ,not a lot of feed value.

You got me KS, well actually you got BIL. These days I just smile and nod, for me it has been a cock up. The expensive cattle have all gone and average stock added. Self trained Lumpy Skin injection man has profited from BIL. I paid for the fodder seed and since then, it exists. I have grown napier before and when the pigs didn't go for it much gave up, but at least it was green and young enough. What can I say?