Great news for Ozzies.

[cleverman]

The embassy income letter, let's call it that,never bothered me as I have plenty of money. However, at the last couple of wine and cheese evenings I attended, many of my Oz mates were worried because they have been making false statements on their sta decs. (4 years imprisoment if guilty of making false stat decs). I informed them that they didn't have to worry about that as Commonwealth Stat Decs are only made on matters relating to the Commonwealth or Australian capital territories. I decided to see what I could do to help out my Oz expat mates so I went to see a senior Oz embassy official .As a former Commonwealth Of Australia employee, this was not difficult to arrange. I told him that one of the duties and responsibilities of the Oz embassy is to certify documents for us. Of course he knew this and said that they stopped certifying stat decs because of the reason I have just stated. They knew this all along but continued with the practice until they decided not to accept them any more. He did not say why. It is obvious to me why. I told him I have a superannuation stream from the Com. Of Au. He said that if we,expats, take documents proving out income, they will continue to certify them after the cut off date for stat decs. Thank you ladies and gentlemen and goodnight. 

[Hoppyone]

Certify at the normally expensive rate or at a more reasonable Thailand rate 

[glegolo]

quote

He said that if we,expats, take documents proving out income, they will continue to certify them after the cut off date for stat decs. Thank you ladies and gentlemen and goodnight. 

unquote

 

If this is true, than congratulations to the people of Australia, you are back again, and the liars can sit their in their own dirt...

 

glegolo

[bkkguy1970]

7 hours ago, cleverman said:

I told him that one of the duties and responsibilities of the Oz embassy is to certify documents for us. Of course he knew this

what is his role at the embassy and what does he, and you, understand by "certify"?

 

7 hours ago, cleverman said:

He said that if we,expats, take documents proving out income, they will continue to certify them after the cut off date for stat decs.

again what does he, and you, understand by "certify" and what information,  from who at Thai Immigration,  does he have that these "certified" documents will be accepted?

 

bkkguy

 

[Expattaff1308]

Quite amazing seeing as how Brits had to provide the proof to the BE before enabling them to get a letter.

I also note that you say many of your mates admitted to making false statements. No bloody wonder we are all in a pickle and the Embassies stopped the income letters.

[skatewash]

10 minutes ago, bkkguy1970 said:

what is his role at the embassy and what does he, and you, understand by "certify"?

 

again what does he, and you, understand by "certify" and what information,  from who at Thai Immigration,  does he have that these "certified" documents will be accepted?

 

bkkguy

 

Hmmm, I imagine he has exactly the same information from Thai Immigration that it won't accept these "certified" documents that we all (including the fickle four: British, American, Australian, and Danish Embassies) have, which is none.  Thai Immigration hasn't said anything publicly. 

 

The only thing we can reasonably be sure of is that as of this moment, they continue to accept embassy letters as the sine qua non for the income method.  I haven't seen a single reported case of TI rejecting an embassy letter per se.  There have been reports of being rejected because the applicant couldn't back up the embassy letter with documentary evidence.  And there has been one (and only one) report in Mukdahan of an Australian getting a retirement extension without an embassy letter. 

 

If I were going into TI tomorrow to use the income method and I had an embassy letter in my hand I'd be happy, if I didn't I'd be sad.

[cleverman]

Just a guess,certify...stamp and sign. Re IO, dunno. What have they announced?

[a977]

17 hours ago, Hoppyone said:

Certify at the normally expensive rate or at a more reasonable Thailand rate 

Somebody got to pay for that flash building hidden from view by another Embassy

[cleverman]

9 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Quite amazing seeing as how Brits had to provide the proof to the BE before enabling them to get a letter.

I also note that you say many of your mates admitted to making false statements. No bloody wonder we are all in a pickle and the Embassies stopped the income letters.

Not true. As I posted ,re Oz embassy, stat decs not legal for income  .

[a977]

Congratulations "Cleverman" you have done what the Embassy should have come out and said in the first place, and save everyone from all the bullshit that's been spread in this forum. To the Australian Embassy get off your fat asses and do the job we Ozzies are paying you to do and while I'm at it how about employing more Australians at the front counter, nothing against Thais but it is Australian territory. 

[AGareth2]

3 minutes ago, cleverman said:

Not true. As I posted ,re Oz embassy, stat decs not legal for income  .

if not legal then how will it help?

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, cleverman said:

Not true. As I posted ,re Oz embassy, stat decs not legal for income  .

With all your knowledge, why do you ask in another post what documents are required to do a first extension?

[cleverman]

3 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

With all your knowledge, why do you ask in another post what documents are required to do a first extension?

FYI, stat dec is not the only docu. required. And being clever, I only rely on up to date info. 

[JackThompson]

19 hours ago, cleverman said:

I told him I have a superannuation stream from the Com. Of Au. He said that if we,expats, take documents proving out income, they will continue to certify them after the cut off date for stat decs.

From what has been stated, Thai immigration was requiring that any income-streams declared to embassies to back up an income-letter, must be verified as valid and correct.  I doubt this statement means that the Australian embassy will be doing this. 

 

Perhaps your contact is referring to something similar to what the USA embassy does - applying a stamp confirming "Our citizen, identified as X, swore before us that this document is valid."

 

Whether the latter would help with Immigration would likely depend on the particular agent, pending any official-statement from senior officials.

[Thaidream]

17 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

From what has been stated, Thai immigration was requiring that any income-streams declared to embassies to back up an income-letter, must be verified as valid and correct.  I doubt this statement means that the Australian embassy will be doing this. 

 

Perhaps your contact is referring to something similar to what the USA embassy does - applying a stamp confirming "Our citizen, identified as X, swore before us that this document is valid."

 

Whether the latter would help with Immigration would likely depend on the particular agent, pending any official-statement from senior officials.

Agreed.   In the future, one can go to a Us Embassy and  fill out a General Affidavit and state your income and source and swear it it true.  The Consul will check your identity and notarize the affidavit  verifying your identity but will not verify any of the information you have stated is true.

However, Thai Imm may not accept the General Affidavit but it is readily accepted by  the American Court System;  IRS and pension providers as i have used it before. The Affidavit is sworn under penalty of perjury and is subject to prosecution of one lies.

[Old Croc]

2 hours ago, a977 said:

. To the Australian Embassy get off your fat asses and do the job we Ozzies are paying you to do and while I'm at it how about employing more Australians at the front counter, nothing against Thais but it is Australian territory. 

If Embassies were only staffed by Australian Officers there would be significantly less embassies and consulates. Then you would have to complain about dealing with one in Singapore or similar.

The relocation costs of an officer, and their family, to an overseas position are astronomical. To fill all office positions from the Australian public service would blow out any Departmental budget, and become an enormous drain on the taxpayer. Therefore usually only senior positions are filled by A based officers. 

Basic office duties, including counter work, are normally done by locally engaged staff (LES), or as is becoming more common, contracted out. This obviously greatly effects efficiencies and service.

[DrJack54]

I think this information in the original post is not creditable..

I think members are looking for clear factual info from Thai imm and/or embassies to enable for them to plan future alternatives.

Edited December 5, 2018 by DrJack54
Error

[cleverman]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

From what has been stated, Thai immigration was requiring that any income-streams declared to embassies to back up an income-letter, must be verified as valid and correct.  I doubt this statement means that the Australian embassy will be doing this. 

 

Perhaps your contact is referring to something similar to what the USA embassy does - applying a stamp confirming "Our citizen, identified as X, swore before us that this document is valid."

 

Whether the latter would help with Immigration would likely depend on the particular agent, pending any official-statement from senior officials.

That is what I said in OP. Certifying proven income. 

[cleopatra2]

3 hours ago, cleverman said:

Just a guess,certify...stamp and sign. Re IO, dunno. What have they announced?

Apologies , it is not clear from your statements what the embassy is providing.

 

On producing evidence is the embassy going to issue an Income letter as per current TI requirements. . or certify the evidence submitted by the applicant

[cleverman]

34 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Apologies , it is not clear from your statements what the embassy is providing.

 

On producing evidence is the embassy going to issue an Income letter as per current TI requirements. . or certify the evidence submitted by the applicant

All I know is what I said in OP, certify.

[cleopatra2]

34 minutes ago, cleverman said:

All I know is what I said in OP, certify.

Your original post contains some ambiguity.

It is claimed by yourself that there are numerous false declarations and the embassy official acknowledges this is the reason for stopping the service. 

In the next statement it is stated that the official does not give a reason , but it is obvious to yourself.

 

Given the purpose of the meeting was to provide some clarification for your fellow countrymen , it seems strange that you came away with so few details has to what the embassy will be issuing to applicants who provide evidence.

 

 

[cleverman]

5 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

if not legal then how will it help?

Help what?

[cleverman]

23 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Your original post contains some ambiguity.

It is claimed by yourself that there are numerous false declarations and the embassy official acknowledges this is the reason for stopping the service. 

In the next statement it is stated that the official does not give a reason , but it is obvious to yourself.

 

Given the purpose of the meeting was to provide some clarification for your fellow countrymen , it seems strange that you came away with so few details has to what the embassy will be issuing to applicants who provide evidence.

 

 

You haven't read my OP. No ambiguity, I never said the embassy told my anything about false claims, where I my op did I say "the embassy official acknowledges etc". Stopping what service, I never said that. The official never gave a reason why they chose now to stop issuing stat dec declarations. If you can't work that out, not my problem. Given the purpose of my meeting, I gave every detail about what the embassy will be providing. Please read my op and digest it before making comment. 

[AGareth2]

22 minutes ago, cleverman said:

Help what?

 

10 minutes ago, cleverman said:

they chose now to stop issuing stat dec declarations.

getting the doc after they stop

[cleopatra2]

5 minutes ago, cleverman said:

You haven't read my OP. No ambiguity, I never said the embassy told my anything about false claims, where I my op did I say "the embassy official acknowledges etc". Stopping what service, I never said that. The official never gave a reason why they chose now to stop issuing stat dec declarations. If you can't work that out, not my problem. Given the purpose of my meeting, I gave every detail about what the embassy will be providing. Please read my op and digest it before making comment. 

Your Op states that he said the reason they have stopped certify stat Dec is for the reason I have just stated.

 

Although you do not explicitly state the reason, it is Implied from the statement that you are aware of many false declarations .

 

With regards the embassy proposal of certifying proven documents, the ambiguity arises , is the embassy issuing an Income letter or just certifying the original documents the applicant submits

[Expattaff1308]

5 hours ago, cleverman said:

Not true. As I posted ,re Oz embassy, stat decs not legal for income  .

Yes but when making the Stat Dec, they had to declare their income albeit the Embassy just witnessed their signature...and by your first post they Lied and made up the Amounts, is it any bloody wonder they stopped the letters with this going on.

Once again shafted by our own while we have been blaming the Embassies and Immigration. 

Again the majority pay the price for the cheating minority.

[cleverman]

3 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Yes but when making the Stat Dec, they had to declare their income albeit the Embassy just witnessed their signature...and by your first post they Lied and made up the Amounts, is it any bloody wonder they stopped the letters with this going on.

Once again shafted by our own while we have been blaming the Embassies and Immigration. 

Again the majority pay the price for the cheating minority.

Please cut and post where I said "they lied" in my first post. Please stop making things up, or , prove what you say. 

[madmen]

People have many streams of income not just pension or superannuation. Is the OP saying that the embassy will now check them all? How they gonna do that? They can't! That's the whole reason the stat decs were stopped and same reason brits stopped theirs and the others

I'm afraid the OP just got lip service so the dude could get to his hi so resteraunt for lunch

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, cleverman said:

That is what I said in OP. Certifying proven income. 

I don't think we know what "certifying" entails in this context, but I understand you cannot read the guy's mind - and maybe he doesn't know exactly what will be involved either.  Thanks for passing what you heard, in any case. 

 

Maybe "stamped" (certified?) documents showing our incomes from pensions, dividends, business-income, etc will work with Immigration, in place of the disappearing letters.

[madmen]

The other thing is they can not force you to provide proof with a stat dec as that would no longer be a stat dec.

The Australian Embassy would have to issue their own letter upon verifying that Joe blogs gets an income from his property rentals by calling the agents in oz

AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN