Huawei founder's daughter arrested on U.S. request, clouding China trade truce

[vinegarbase]

But China can do this?

https://www.businessinsider.com/liu-changming-china-holds-officials-family-hostage-to-force-return-2018-11

 

China is notorious for exit bans regardless the proof or even an actual crime being committed. Seems like they got played by their own game.

[Thaidream]

18 hours ago, dcnx said:

Only while the USA is still the top dog. China’s day is coming.

China's day will only come if they bend to the US request to open their markets; stop stealing technology from others; and stop their attempt to control  international sea lanes.  They are a clear and present danger to the World.

 

China is controlled by the Communist Party and an elite type of governance that revolves around keep the Party in power forever.This control is arrogant and predatory.

 

As much as I dislike Trump, he is right to try and check their expansionism, If they refuse to change- they will be defeated both economically and if necessary militarily and end up a  third rate military and economic Nation.

[from the home of CC]

2 hours ago, mikebike said:

That is not true. Even if you are flying within Canada you must pass USCBP. Her destination was Toronto.

no, you don't

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, from the home of CC said:

no, you don't

It was truly bizarre of that poster to contend that on purely domestic flights you have to pass US customs. That isn't the case in the USA but it somehow would be the case in Canada. That's just nuts.

[zydeco]

3 hours ago, manarak said:

If no cause is given for the arrest, I guess this is a breach of human rights?  No person can be arrested without legal cause? article 9 of the universal declaration of human rights?

So are the Chinese now concerned about "arrest without legal cause" and violation of human rights?  One million Uighurs want to know.

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, overherebc said:

Try BBC news, not Fox or CNN. 

BBC news? Because of their impartial news about Schotland?

[from the home of CC]

34 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

It was truly bizarre of that poster to contend that on purely domestic flights you have to pass US customs. That isn't the case in the USA but it somehow would be the case in Canada. That's just nuts.

Unless she was travelling to the states or the states was one of her connection points on an international flight, pre clearance is not required. The news I read was that the Canadians were 'requested' to arrest her, that suggests to me that she was not in American border control.

[overherebc]

14 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

BBC news? Because of their impartial news about Schotland?

BT is another organisation that won't use Huawei because of security problems and it looks like Japan won't either so nothing to do with whatsername being arrested.

[manarak]

1 hour ago, zydeco said:

So are the Chinese now concerned about "arrest without legal cause" and violation of human rights?  One million Uighurs want to know.

no, I am concerned.

[manarak]

4 hours ago, mikebike said:

N.Y. district had issued warrent(s).

isn't N.Y. district in the USA ?

before the arrest is made in Canada, shouldn't a Canadian court verify that the causes detailed in the US warrant do also constitute a crime under Canadian law?
or is there a provision for urgency - enabling to make the arrest and then do the paperwork within 24 hours afterwards?

[Hank Gunn]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

It was truly bizarre of that poster to contend that on purely domestic flights you have to pass US customs. That isn't the case in the USA but it somehow would be the case in Canada. That's just nuts.

He’s got an axe to grind which clouds his ability to look at many issues objectively. (In my opinion this applies to all people, it’s just that some are more affected by it than others, hence this poster’s ridiculous claim.)

[beautifulthailand99]

6 hours ago, varun said:

Nobody's forcing you to obey anyone.

 

However, the US is the top dog - and countries with a cavalier, post-college rebel BS attitude like yours, 

always get the smack-down.

When you have a three trillion dollar debt , half the nation morbidly obese, no appetite politically or socially for body bags , and a resurgent China build up with US and western investment oh and a clown for President you've got to see the writing on the wall ....

[brucec64]

That is not true. Even if you are flying within Canada you must pass USCBP. Her destination was Toronto.

what planet are u living on? have u ever been to the Vancouver airport? you are spouting absolute nonsense.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Brigand]

She is part of the Communist system and party, plus a member too, that tows the line and takes orders. You cannot be a company as big as that without being told what to do by the government or you with be destroyed...same for Jack Ma and Alibaba. China needs calling out on a lot of things, it's just that everyone is too terrified to do it because of economic considerations despite them (China) being the worst offenders on everything...from human rights to the environment to freedom of speech and almost everything you can think of. Judging how puritanical some of the lefty lot are, they are amazingly quiet on this and liberal governments all over the place do a "pull up the carpet and sweep" job whilst mouthing off how pious they are and ignoring the elephant in the room. 

[tonbridgebrit]

37 minutes ago, Brigand said:

She is part of the Communist system and party, plus a member too, that tows the line and takes orders. You cannot be a company as big as that without being told what to do by the government or you with be destroyed...same for Jack Ma and Alibaba. China needs calling out on a lot of things, it's just that everyone is too terrified to do it because of economic considerations despite them (China) being the worst offenders on everything...from human rights to the environment to freedom of speech and almost everything you can think of. Judging how puritanical some of the lefty lot are, they are amazingly quiet on this and liberal governments all over the place do a "pull up the carpet and sweep" job whilst mouthing off how pious they are and ignoring the elephant in the room. 

"everyone is too terrified to do it because of economic considerations".  Well, yes. Any nation doing a trade war with China will not be having a good time. Who wants to suffer ? Nobody. So, it's best that nobody fights a trade war with China.

By the way, on issues like "human rights in China, freedom of speech and freedom of religion in China, sexual freedom in China, whatever freedom in China", do you really reckon that Washington cares that much ? What about us people here on Thai Visa ? How many of us hate it, when we see only a little bit of freedom in China ?
I say this, because, well, look at places like Saudi Arabia. How much sexual freedom is there in Saudi Arabia ? Are Christian Evangelical groups allowed into Saudi Arabia, and spread the name of the Lord Jesus ? Are they a democracy ?  The answer is, well, Saudi Arabia doesn't actually have that much freedom. Are we suppose to do a trade war with Saudi Arabia ? Off-course not.


About the environment, Trump is actually trying to tell the world that burning coal is okay. On a per person basis, China might be doing less pollution than America. And that's bearing in mind that, most of the stuff in America's shops are made in China.    ????

[tonbridgebrit]

On 12/6/2018 at 4:07 PM, zydeco said:

When one tweet, one comment, or one legitimate arrest of the CFO of a foreign company that has been caught already stealing technology can cause markets to crash, then those markets are not healthy to begin with. They are overpriced, puffed up by the fed's printing of free money, and ripe for a fall. The long term trendline for support in the DOW is around 12,000.

Well, I agree that a serious trade war with China will cause the DOW to plunge to around 12,000.

That's because investors know that a trade war is catastrophic, hence, a market crash.

[beautifulthailand99]

5 hours ago, Thaidream said:

China's day will only come if they bend to the US request to open their markets; stop stealing technology from others; and stop their attempt to control  international sea lanes.  They are a clear and present danger to the World.

 

China is controlled by the Communist Party and an elite type of governance that revolves around keep the Party in power forever.This control is arrogant and predatory.

 

As much as I dislike Trump, he is right to try and check their expansionism, If they refuse to change- they will be defeated both economically and if necessary militarily and end up a  third rate military and economic Nation.

Korea, Vietnam , Iraq , Afghanstan I could go on - the US would be mad to take on China militarily. China will eat dirt before giving in, Americans will riot as soon as the gas queues begin and Walmart shelves go empty with wandering roving gun-nut militias looking for commies in the nearest Chinese takeaway. 

[bristolboy]

20 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Korea, Vietnam , Iraq , Afghanstan I could go on - the US would be mad to take on China militarily. China will eat dirt before giving in, Americans will riot as soon as the gas queues begin and Walmart shelves go empty with wandering roving gun-nut militias looking for commies in the nearest Chinese takeaway. 

Taking the Chinese out on their recently occupied islands - both natural and human made - wouldn't be difficult. I'm not saying it's advisable - it isn't. But not difficult. Invading the mainland would be a different story. But that's not going to happen.

[Pattaya46]

19 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

allegedly shipping U.S.-origin products to Iran

OK, maybe Huawei did such US forbidden sale - maybe - but why arresting the CFO ?

I doubt she is the one who took the (maybe) decision to sell to Iran ??

Does USA intend to arrest every Huawei employees ? 

[Bang Bang]

17 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

OK, maybe Huawei did such US forbidden sell - maybe - but why arresting the CFO ?

They did it by way of a shell company of which she is an owner director, so she is directly liable.

 

The Chinese are clever. But sadly now Trump has them by the balls.

[stud858]

Thank you president Trump.

Chinese takeover,NBL with you in charge.

 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and the replies about the US debt have been removed. 

[pegman]

12 hours ago, manarak said:

isn't N.Y. district in the USA ?

before the arrest is made in Canada, shouldn't a Canadian court verify that the causes detailed in the US warrant do also constitute a crime under Canadian law?
or is there a provision for urgency - enabling to make the arrest and then do the paperwork within 24 hours afterwards?

No, it is undergoing regular process. She is in a Vancouver court right now having a bail hearing.

[Banana7]

On 12/6/2018 at 5:09 PM, bristolboy said:

I was wondering about that, too. It may be that the items Huawei sold had some parts made in the USA. The article should have addressed that question even if only to state that the exact grounds of the arrest request were unclear.

The chief financial officer of China’s Huawei Technologies committed fraud in 2013 when she told American banks that Huawei had no connection to a Hong Kong firm that was reportedly doing business with Iranian telecom companies in violation of U.S. sanctions, a Crown lawyer told a B.C. Supreme Court judge Friday.

 

Meng Wanzhou should be extradited to the United States to face criminal proceedings there over what the United States alleges are Huawei’s ties to Skycom and Ms. Meng’s efforts to conceal those ties.

 

“Ms. Meng personally represented to those banks that Skycom and Huawei were separate, when in fact they were not separate,” he said. “Skycom was Huawei,” said Crown counsel John Gibb-Carsley

[manarak]

59 minutes ago, pegman said:

No, it is undergoing regular process. She is in a Vancouver court right now having a bail hearing.

I'm not asking about the process she's undergoing now, I'm asking about the arrest and the legal cause for arrest.

"at the request of the US" is not a legal cause for arrest.

[varun]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....

She's in possession of 7 passports - 3 from Hong Kong and 4 from Mainland China.

This is not normal by any stretch of imagination and is precisely the reason she poses a flight risk.

Furthermore, there are strict rules regarding dual nationality in Mainland China. 

 

PRC does not allow dual nationality, so how did she manage to flout the rules in both HK and China? - Daddy's guanxi

 

 

 

 

[bristolboy]

On 12/8/2018 at 3:47 AM, manarak said:

I'm not asking about the process she's undergoing now, I'm asking about the arrest and the legal cause for arrest.

"at the request of the US" is not a legal cause for arrest.

This thing has been in the works for some time. Yet you're seriously suggesting that the Justice Dept didn't make a legally valid request for her detention? Grasping at straws, much?

[bristolboy]

On 12/7/2018 at 7:11 PM, stud858 said:

Thank you president Trump.

Chinese takeover,NBL with you in charge.

 

You mean like when at the last minute he bailed out ZTE?

Trump Tells Republicans Not to Undercut Him on ZTE

 

 President Trump urged Republican lawmakers on Wednesday not to scuttle his administration’s efforts to help the Chinese telecom firm ZTE, warning them that his reprieve for the company was part of a broader geopolitical negotiating strategy.

Mr. Trump and Republican lawmakers met at the White House to discuss the fate of the company, which had been banned by the Commerce Department from buying American products this year as punishment for violating American sanctions. The administration has since lifted that ban at Mr. Trump’s request and over the objections of lawmakers, who voted Monday to reinstate the penalties on ZTE.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/zte-trump-republicans-congress.html

[manarak]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

This thing has been in the works for some time. Yet you're seriously suggesting that the Justice Dept didn't make a legally valid request for her detention? Grasping at straws, much?

this may surprise you because I guess you don't work in the legal field, but I have seen more than a few requests for arrest and requests for extradition that were dishonest, deliberately misrepresenting charges and just trying to get their way by impressing the other country.

in the country I lived in, Switzerland, there luckily is a working legal process that throws out all the excentic claims made. in other countries, these claims may well be taken at face value!

 

to give you an example, a swiss gentleman had arranged a lady from Germany to visit him at his home in France to perform certain services of private nature. he paid for her plane ticket.

the deed done, the swiss gentleman went back to switzerland and the lady back to germany.

somehow the matter landed in the hands of French police who probably had some sort of axe to grind, they wanted to make the gentleman's life miserable.

Switzerland received an extradition request on the following grounds:

- human trafficking: because by paying the plane ticket the guy had organized the border crossing of the lady.

- pimping: as the lady had met another cliebnt durign her stay in Paris, the gentleman was also, in the eyes of whatever idiots they have in Paris police, reponsible for procuring the lady because he organized her visit to paris.

 

now, "human trfficking" and "pimping" sound like quite serious charges, people would imagine an organized prostitution ring, possibly forced, possibly  with organized crime involvement, wehn all the poor guy did was to tell an escort know to him that he would like to spend a night with her in Paris !!

 

of course the request only got laughter from my colleagues who wasted their time working on that dishonest extradition request, because French legal services for police know perfectly well that neither of the alleged "crimes" are illegal in Switzerland.

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

so that's the reason why I believe requests made by other contries must be taken with a grain of salt.

documents transmitted in order to gain an extradition can be full of lies and deceit, even if they come from countries supposedly run under a constitutional democracy.

 

the absence, in this case , of a clear reason for arrest might simply indicate that they are still looking for a reason.

I would be there are now 2 or 3 departments of the Canadian  ministry of justice plus maybe a task force running in circles to find in Canadian laws a valid reason for the arrestation.

 

 

 

[geriatrickid]

On 12/6/2018 at 4:21 AM, 300sd said:

Stupid move Canada.

Ahh, so you believe that respecting a longstanding treaty agreement  between the USA and Canada that has served the best interests of both countries is stupid. When countries enter into a binding agreement to  respect arrest warrants that meet the terms of the agreement and that are   upheld by a court  they cannot ignore their obligations under that treaty.

 

On 12/6/2018 at 5:01 AM, stevenl said:

So? Huawei may have violated USA sanctions on Iran, so the whole world has to obey the USA?

The alleged sanction violations would have violated Canada's sanctions as well. As you are obviously unaware, Canada has similar sanctions in force against Iran because of the multiple cases of torture and murder of  dual nationals in Iran. The most recent murders was of an apolitical academic.

 

Canada also continues to restrict the export to Iran of a wide range of sensitive products listed on the Export Control List (ECL), under the Export and Import Permits Act (EIPA). See Notice to Exporters Serial No. 196 for further information. http://www.international.gc.ca/controls-controles/systems-systemes/excol-ceed/notices-avis/196.aspx?lang=eng

 

It looks like the Chinese were caught busting sanctions that both Canada and the USA have in force and that seem to also  involve sanctions imposed by Security Council Resolution 2231 (2015).

 

IMO, China is simply trying to intimidate and bully the Canadians  for a legitimate enforcement of a sanctions law.