"Who are you calling 'nebulous'?" May presses testy EU for Brexit help

[tomacht8]

How many times since 2 years has it been posted here that trade agreements usually take 5-7 years to complete. That never, from the majority accepted, 

a brexit plan was available makes the whole more complicate. Now we have the situation that the uk government has negotiated a brexit plan and all 27 eu states have given their ok. Now it turns out that there is most likely no uk parliamentary majority for it. How moronic is that?  The uk seems to be incapable of decision and action.

Best the uk obtains an extension of the exiting date.

And get First there sh...t together.

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

How many times since 2 years has it been posted here that trade agreements usually take 5-7 years to complete. That never, from the majority accepted, 

a brexit plan was available makes the whole more complicate. Now we have the situation that the uk government has negotiated a brexit plan and all 27 eu states have given their ok. Now it turns out that there is most likely no uk parliamentary majority for it. How moronic is that?  The uk seems to be incapable of decision and action.

Best the uk obtains an extension of the exiting date.

And get First there sh...t together.

I agree with you until the idea with the extension.

Please no extension! They had two years time and didn't get the job done. Why would they be able to do something in 3 or 4 years which they couldn't do in 2 years? And I don't think about details. Just the big picture how things should realistically work would be a good start. But they were not even able to figure that one out.

After the EU agreed on "May's deal" beginning of December I thought: Ok, put it now in front of parliament and let them decide. What's the point of discussing another week about what everybody knew already. And then they discussed another week and were ready to vote. And then May said no to the vote. And now maybe they will wait until 21st January. What's the point? Get it done! Now! Because after parliament votes No something else must happen, and soon.

They should also scrap their Christmas break. They have so much work to do there is just no time for a break. Celebrate in April if you like - if you find a reason to celebrate then.

[My Thai Life]

24 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

How many times since 2 years has it been posted here that trade agreements usually take 5-7 years to complete.

The big difference is that the UK is already in the most advanced kind of free trade agreement (a customs union) with the EU, and all standards (aka non-tariff barriers) are aligned. The latter is what really takes the time in FTAs, and that work is already complete.

 

If May had negotiated on the basis of an FTA as proposed by Barnier-Tusk, and if the EU had not thrown the backstop spanner in the works (completely unnecessary, but I won't go into the details right now as there's a separate thread for it), then we would be well on the way by now.

 

Otherwise what you're saying is right.

[evadgib]

 

[Grouse]

32 minutes ago, evadgib said:

 

Poll for second referendum got 10x that

[Grouse]

Nebulous was inaccurate translation I understand

 

Anyone got the original French

 

I think the correct translation was air head! 

[My Thai Life]

4 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

How many times since 2 years has it been posted here that trade agreements usually take 5-7 years to complete.

Hi Tom. I want to simplify my earlier response if you don't mind.

 

The UK isn't negotiating to get into a trade agreement with the EU. It's negotiating to replace a trade agreement with the EU (a customs union) which prohibits independent trade agreements, with an FTA which allows independent trade ageements.

 

This negotiation still wouldn't be instantaneous, but it should be very much faster than usual FTA negotiations because the UK/EU starting position is 100% alignment and harmonisation, as per my earlier response.

 

But good speed is only achievable if the 2 parties approach the negotiation with competence and integrity, which they haven't. 

 

Edited December 16, 2018 by My Thai Life

[welovesundaysatspace]

9 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

The UK isn't negotiating to get into a trade agreement with the EU. It's negotiating to replace a trade agreement with the EU (a customs union) which prohibits independent trade agreements, with an FTA which allows independent trade ageements.

How about all the other trade agreements that EU member states enjoy?

[3NUMBAS]

that maggot tony blair is trying to ignite a civil war as he is on the eu payroll along with soros and gina millar and various other weevils

[OneMoreFarang]

9 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

How about all the other trade agreements that EU member states enjoy?

Somehow some people in the UK think they will be able to get better deals with all the other countries compared to the deals which the EU did already.

I don't know how they got that idea.

[My Thai Life]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Somehow some people in the UK think they will be able to get better deals with all the other countries compared to the deals which the EU did already.

I don't know how they got that idea.

It's actually very simple. The EU has 28 countries with very different economic and political profiles, and at different stages of their economic and political development. Consequently they have different economic and political agendas and goals. The "one size fits all" approach does not work very well in this situation.

[OneMoreFarang]

46 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

It's actually very simple. The EU has 28 countries with very different economic and political profiles, and at different stages of their economic and political development. Consequently they have different economic and political agendas and goals. The "one size fits all" approach does not work very well in this situation.

Correct.

But what about the fact that if a country makes an agreement to sell into a market with over 500 million people or into a market with 65 million people. Who will likely get the better conditions? Which agreement will have higher priority?

[My Thai Life]

32 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Correct.

But what about the fact that if a country makes an agreement to sell into a market with over 500 million people or into a market with 65 million people. Who will likely get the better conditions? Which agreement will have higher priority?

Sure. And I agree that in some cases sheer size is important - the whole world is seeing this play out between the US and China.

 

But the EU is not a homogenous market, either for import or export, or politically.

 

Your point about selling into a maket of 500 million is valid as far it goes. But the reality is that markets are highly differentiated; within that 500 million there are actually many more or less unconnected national markets.

 

I would also add that the EU is a highly protectionist market, especially in food. Sure anyone can sell food to the EU if EU consumers will pay the average 20% import tariff for food - most won't!

 

In the UK the post-Brexit "no deal" price of food will undoubtedly go down unless there's a complete idiot in charge - and there may well be!

Edited December 16, 2018 by My Thai Life

[Dumbastheycome]

Oh dear!

[malagateddy]

Oh dear!

Quote to go with it should be...oh no..the sociopath blair is "mixing " it again.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[My Thai Life]

On 12/15/2018 at 8:38 PM, tebee said:

I don't believe the narrative of “Betrayal” by a remainer elite who sabotaged the “no deal” plans, though I can see why brexiters want to. It is the emerging British equivalent of the Dolchstosslegende – the stab in the back myth – which, post Versailles, the German military – Hindenburg and others – propagated to blame the Weimar civilian elite for having betrayed a supposedly undefeated army.

 

I see you're quoting Sir Ivan Rogers from his article commissioned by The Spectator - "The Nine Lessons of Brexit".

 

Actually let me re-phrase that, you're not quoting Rogers, you are presenting his words as your own.

 

I suspect there are two possible reasons for that:

 

1. You don't want to acknowledge The Spectaor as the source because The Spectator is pro leave.

2. You don't actually have any words of your own.

 

[evadgib]

 

[OneMoreFarang]

5 hours ago, evadgib said:

 

What do people expect should high level officials earn?

They are multi billion EUR managers. They should earn decent money.

And if you compare what they make with top bankers then they earn peanuts.

This is obviously true for all those high level officials. How much does May make? Or Boris Johnson? Or Merkel? Some are better, some are worse but they all would be easier to corrupt if they wouldn't make a half decent salary.

[tebee]

The new Routemaster bus is Brexit prefigured in microcosm: popular before it happened; unnecessary; expensive; facilitated by Boris Johnson; shit.