Health Insurance - crazy percentage increases this year!

[bbi1]

Anyone else here noticing crazy percentage increases in their health insurance premiums? I got a renewal for mine recently and it jumped up 20% since year year! This is without using it at all with no claims made.

[BestB]

It jumps by age intervals, nothing to do with claims. 

[bbi1]

7 minutes ago, BestB said:

It jumps by age intervals, nothing to do with claims. 

True in that mine jumps up every 5 years of age. Besides that the amount is the same for those 5 years of every age bracket. But  the policy always increases every year in price, usually around 10% but this year it's gone up by a whopping 20%!!

[HampiK]

The premium of the Insurance of my wife even was going down for next year. I was very surprised. (Cigna close care).

[bbi1]

2 minutes ago, HampiK said:

The premium of the Insurance of my wife even was going down for next year. I was very surprised. (Cigna close care).

Wow that's really surprising.

 

ACS has gone up 20%!!

[Sheryl]

On 12/16/2018 at 10:50 PM, bbi1 said:

True in that mine jumps up every 5 years of age. Besides that the amount is the same for those 5 years of every age bracket. But  the policy always increases every year in price, usually around 10% but this year it's gone up by a whopping 20%!!

 

 

There are 2 types of increases:

 

1 - inflationary, based on overall costs of health care. These occur most years.

 

2 - age related. Depending on the policy this may occur every year oir every 5 years. When it is every 5 years the increase is quite large, usually more than 20% though it depends on the age. from 60 onward, big jumps, at earlier ages, smaller ones.

 

you should ask your insurer what the reason is.

[theswedishguy]

And for those who think tax-based healthcare is cheap. In Sweden, 15% of everything you earn goes to health insurance. The average pay for a worker is 26000SEK (about 3000 dollars). This means that the average health insurance in that system is 5400 dollars. (and it's not valid if you live abroad like Thailand, but I still have to pay the tax even if I do not live in Sweden).

I, therefore, have to pay double insurance. The forced one in Sweden (my case about 7000 dollars) and the "worldwide"/Thailand private insurance. that costs about 1000 dollars via Expat club Pattaya. Strange how private insurance is 1/7 of the forced one.

 

And so many people believe government healthcare is good. I, for example, had to wait over 4 years for operation when I broke my back. If I had private insurance the wait would have been under 1 week. 

[thailand49]

Here are my years of research unprofessional of course.  Example:  I started with a 1 million baht policy from an Expat club, at age 55 and healthy, I noticed a 3-5,000 up in premium each year since I never use the policy I was told to get out since the club members majority all over (60) use the policy too much the reason the premium rises.

So I got out went to Bupa, LMG, ACS,  as I got older still never use it but now put into age brackets and as noted premium tends to go up depending on those in your bracket and how much is used? Can't remember in 10 plus years my premium ever staying the same or reduced more than once?

The problem I jump around a bit always looking for the best bang for my baht, a few years ago I purchased an AXA Expat policy that covers you to 70? the price was good for a 1 million, I was in good health so accepted after 60 but after two years AXA wouldn't cover the group so agent switches to Pacific ? but to cover the group the premium went within the same age bracket 65-70 15,000 baht more. In the conversation with the agent I brought this up and the response was they will cover you until 90?  I said that is nice but the way the premium is going up we wouldn't be able to afford the premium by my numbers by the time I hit 90, the premium might be 150,000 baht for the same policy but of course, this being Thailand I wouldn't be surprised I get dumped way before that happens and left in the cold?

[gmac]

Don't worry, they probably won't pay out when you finally need it anyway......that cold you had back in 1987 that you didn't declare as a pre-existing condition!

[wgdanson]

On 12/19/2018 at 12:05 PM, Sheryl said:

 

 

There are 2 types of increases:

 

1 - inflationary, based on overall costs of health care. These occur most years.

 

2 - age related. Depending on the policy this may occur every year oir every 5 years. When it is every 5 years the increase is quite large, usually more than 20% though it depends on the age. from 60 onward, big jumps, at earlier ages, smaller ones.

 

you should ask your insurer what the reason is.

That's OK, but knowing the reason will not change the premium demanded. I am with Aetna, 71 next week so cannot change company. Cannot imagine what next July's premium will be.

Edited December 21, 2018 by wgdanson

[Srikcir]

On 12/19/2018 at 12:05 PM, Sheryl said:

There are 2 types of increases

3 - increase in claim activity.

Insurance profit margins are from premiums exceeding claims as a whole of the insured population base.

That may in part be age related if the growth in insured increases with aged people versus declining younger insured who ordinarily pay a larger premium than their healthcare needs.

Such cost imbalance may also be triggered by increased income inequality among younger people who can't now afford premiums that placed greater burden of insurance premiums on the older insured. Furthermore, healthcare costs may increase to factors other than CIP inflation such as lower government healthcare subsidies, greater costs due to healthcare inefficiencies and corruption (ie., false billings).

[Sheryl]

That's OK, but knowing the reason will not change the premium demanded. I am with Aetna, 71 next week so cannot change company. Cannot imagine what next July's premium will be.

There are international companies that will newly insure you at 71 if you are healthy. The problem will be if you have pre existing conditions like hypertendion, diabetes etc.

If not, you can and shoukd change companies IMO.


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[wgdanson]

Just now, Sheryl said:

There are international companies that will newly insure you at 71 if you are healthy. The problem will be if you have pre existing conditions like hypertendion, diabetes etc.

If not, you can and shoukd change companies IMO.


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Any suggestions please Sheryl. I did have mild h'tension but a year of self-prescribed meds, lifestyle change etc brought it down. I monitor it twice a day with an app which shows average. Would that be classed as a pre-condition? 

[Odysseus123]

Massive hikes in 2015 and 2016.

 

That is why I left.

 

They are not going to griddle me over a slow fire.

[Pedrogaz]

Health insurance is a giant con trick. Don't fall for it, self insure. Never use a private hospital in Thailand either, they recommend unnecessary treatments and surgeries for non existent illnesses. Go to the government run places and wait your turn, they use the same doctors as the private hospitals but the desire to treat you expensively is lacking because there is no profit motive.

Put an amount of money away each month equivalent to the insurance premiums that you would have paid and use this as your own health fund.

[AsiaCheese]

17 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Health insurance is a giant con trick. Don't fall for it, self insure. Never use a private hospital in Thailand either, they recommend unnecessary treatments and surgeries for non existent illnesses. Go to the government run places and wait your turn, they use the same doctors as the private hospitals but the desire to treat you expensively is lacking because there is no profit motive.

Put an amount of money away each month equivalent to the insurance premiums that you would have paid and use this as your own health fund.

 

As much as I hate insurances and their robber baron attitudes, they have something you and I don't have: risk distribution. How much per month do you need to put aside, and for how many months, to cover a bill for THB 2 mio. after a quadruple bypass operation at a Thai private hospital?

[abrahamzvi]

On 12/16/2018 at 10:41 PM, BestB said:

It jumps by age intervals, nothing to do with claims. 

Right. With some insurers (Aethna and others) one gets 10% No Claim Bonus, if no claims occur during the annual insurance period.

[abrahamzvi]

1 hour ago, wgdanson said:

Any suggestions please Sheryl. I did have mild h'tension but a year of self-prescribed meds, lifestyle change etc brought it down. I monitor it twice a day with an app which shows average. Would that be classed as a pre-condition? 

Yes, it would and I suggest at your age you stay with Aetna. From experience, I can state that they are fine as far as settlement of claims is concerned and their pricing is rather competitive. I am not sure up till what age they will guarantee cover.

[wgdanson]

17 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

Right. With some insurers (Aethna and others) one gets 10% No Claim Bonus, if no claims occur during the annual insurance period.

Which means DO NOT go to hospital for any treatment under Bht 6000. And insist on being admitted overnight if you only have inpatient cover for something semi-serious.

[Sheryl]

Any suggestions please Sheryl. I did have mild h'tension but a year of self-prescribed meds, lifestyle change etc brought it down. I monitor it twice a day with an app which shows average. Would that be classed as a pre-condition? 

If you require daily medication for it, probably.

Cigna Global tends to be among the more reasonable re this sort of thing and might not put an exclusion if it is well controlled but you won't know until you submit an application and the underwriters review it.

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[offset]

On 12/19/2018 at 12:05 PM, Sheryl said:

 

 

There are 2 types of increases:

 

1 - inflationary, based on overall costs of health care. These occur most years.

 

2 - age related. Depending on the policy this may occur every year oir every 5 years. When it is every 5 years the increase is quite large, usually more than 20% though it depends on the age. from 60 onward, big jumps, at earlier ages, smaller ones.

 

you should ask your insurer what the reason is.

The inflation increase is understandable but they never increase the covers it means the value of your insurance in real terms go down (my room allowance has been 8000 baht for 10 years)

[dickjones2018]

if you have enough free time, you rich retirees have anyway, spend some time to educate yourself about health... for me... the only working branch of healthcare is :

EMERGENCY ROOM services

you have a car accident, have a heart attack, get stabbed, beaten to pulp, shot

 

great, emergency room doctors can do wonders to save your life

 

ALL THE REST IS A BIG PILL PUSHING SCAM ...

- diabetes type 2: stop the carbs

- high blood pressure : check your CAC score / calcification of arteries (use of EDTA/proteolytic enzymes/magnesium...) can do wonders

- adhd : (for you or your child) how is your sleep ... remember how zombie you feel after a bad night ?  multiply that in weeks/months and you got a lot of ADHD symptoms... check what you eat... I urge you to go to a 7/11 and check the ingredients of packaged food...look for INS numbers (chemicals, preservatives)....I kid you not... there are packages with 20-30-50 chemicals

the record was for some kind of hamburger... don't forget thai people let this warm in the plastic in a microwave ...

- stomach problems/gerd :  lack of acid stomach, not too much !

 

many diseases are nutritional deficiencies

 

that is my 2 cents at least

[MyFriend You]

11 hours ago, wgdanson said:

That's OK, but knowing the reason will not change the premium demanded. I am with Aetna, 71 next week so cannot change company. Cannot imagine what next July's premium will be.

I'm not being nosey, but how much is full Health Insurance for a 70ish year old person........not for me, its for my sister who may be moving here.  I have Aetna Group Health Insurance with my former US Government job, I pay about $148.00 a month  -  its a pay/re-imbursment plan - I get re-imbursed approx 75-80% but have to pay up front - they negotiate with the hospital and sometimes get a better price - this is why I say I pre-fund my health care.  Have a separate acct with 1million Baht in it for 'that rainy day'  also will use it for the 800,000 retirement extension when I file for it.  Knocking on wood, I have never, in six years of opening it, had to touch it.   Peace

Edited December 21, 2018 by TunnelRat69

[MyFriend You]

1 hour ago, dickjones2018 said:

if you have enough free time, you rich retirees have anyway, spend some time to educate yourself about health... for me... the only working branch of healthcare is :

EMERGENCY ROOM services

you have a car accident, have a heart attack, get stabbed, beaten to pulp, shot

 

great, emergency room doctors can do wonders to save your life

 

ALL THE REST IS A BIG PILL PUSHING SCAM ...

- diabetes type 2: stop the carbs

- high blood pressure : check your CAC score / calcification of arteries (use of EDTA/proteolytic enzymes/magnesium...) can do wonders

- adhd : (for you or your child) how is your sleep ... remember how zombie you feel after a bad night ?  multiply that in weeks/months and you got a lot of ADHD symptoms... check what you eat... I urge you to go to a 7/11 and check the ingredients of packaged food...look for INS numbers (chemicals, preservatives)....I kid you not... there are packages with 20-30-50 chemicals

the record was for some kind of hamburger... don't forget thai people let this warm in the plastic in a microwave ...

- stomach problems/gerd :  lack of acid stomach, not too much !

 

many diseases are nutritional deficiencies

 

that is my 2 cents at least

............and an informative 2 cents it is.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I'm not being nosey, but how much is full Health Insurance for a 70ish year old person........not for me, its for my sister who may be moving here.  I have Aetna Group Health Insurance with my former US Government job, I pay about $148.00 a month  -  its a pay/re-imbursment plan - I get re-imbursed approx 75-80% but have to pay up front - they negotiate with the hospital and sometimes get a better price - this is why I say I pre-fund my health care.  Have a separate acct with 1million Baht in it for 'that rainy day'  also will use it for the 800,000 retirement extension when I file for it.  Knocking on wood, I have never, in six years of opening it, had to touch it.   Peace

Not sure what you mean by "full" health insurance. Most people here get only inpatient cover as outpatient costs are affordable and the premium difference is huge.

 

For inpatient cover only (which usually extends to day surgeries and outpatient dialysis/cancer treatment), for a 70 year old  between $3,000 - $5,000 a year depending on policy; less if a deductible and/or copay is accepted.

 

Big problem will be any pre-existing conditions which most 70 year olds do have. Those will either preclude getting a policy or result in exclusions.

[MyFriend You]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Not sure what you mean by "full" health insurance. Most people here get only inpatient cover as outpatient costs are affordable and the premium difference is huge.

 

For inpatient cover only (which usually extends to day surgeries and outpatient dialysis/cancer treatment), for a 70 year old  between $3,000 - $5,000 a year depending on policy; less if a deductible and/or copay is accepted.

 

Big problem will be any pre-existing conditions which most 70 year olds do have. Those will either preclude getting a policy or result in exclusions.

Thank You, she has Emphysema - at least that is what she has been told, I think a year or two living in salt water air might help, beats just barely living in Kentucky waiting to die.............in any event, I am prepared to fund her health care here, but not in the US............Thanx again.

[Sheryl]

Empheysema (COPD) is likely to be a deal-breaker, insurance-wise. At the least it would lead to an exclusion of all respiratory diseases and probably cardiac as well.

 

I would advise against her moving here - in the US at least she has Medicare, which she cannot use here.  To properly self-insure would need to have 3-5 million baht put aside and the ability to replenish it as used. (1-3 if willing to use only government hospitals).

 

Alternatively she could spend just part time here with travel insurance policies, some of them will cover "acute exacerbations" of pre-existing conditions, and rest of the time in US where she has Medicare.

[wgdanson]

11 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I'm not being nosey, but how much is full Health Insurance for a 70ish year old person........not for me, its for my sister who may be moving here.  I have Aetna Group Health Insurance with my former US Government job, I pay about $148.00 a month  -  its a pay/re-imbursment plan - I get re-imbursed approx 75-80% but have to pay up front - they negotiate with the hospital and sometimes get a better price - this is why I say I pre-fund my health care.  Have a separate acct with 1million Baht in it for 'that rainy day'  also will use it for the 800,000 retirement extension when I file for it.  Knocking on wood, I have never, in six years of opening it, had to touch it.   Peace

BUPA/ AETNA Thailand, in patient only. Started 7 at 64 yrs old 7 years ago, 43k Bht a year. Now at 70 I pay 55k Bht. They have paid out for Dengue Fever 3 nights in Pattaya hospital, and for a Cardiogram examination which was 60k Bht. Get my 10% back each year I do not use. 

[Sheryl]

An off topic post has been removed

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[rustyhinges]

Woke Christmas day morning with a detached retina (not trauma induced - degeneration was the reason given). Went to Nonthavej hospital eye center Nam Wong Wan. Quoted Tb 190,000 for a 1-hour outpatient op. A tad expensive I thought. They don't have direct billing with Cigna. Now waiting for an estimate from World Medical hospital who do have direct billing with Cigna, to compare. Policy renewal due in February. Lets see.